Aspect ratio confusion with .avi on standalone.

[Nocontact]

I have a sony dvp ns718h that I have connected via HDMI. For some reason, when I play .avi/divx files on it I can't get the aspect ratio right as the picture is slightly squashed.
Right now it's connected to a 16:9 tv. If I connect it to my 4:3 tv, for some reason the aspect ratio looks fine with all the same video settings.
The only way I can get it to look right on the 16:9 tv, is if I tinker with the settings, but it still ends up with letterboxing vertically AND horizontally, as if the picture is surrounded by a large black frame.
Can anyone help me figure out what this is about?

Thanks

[guns1inger]

Make sure the DVD player is set to output widescreen to the TV, not letterbox 4:3.

Post a mediainfo Tree view of one of the problem videos.

[Nocontact]

Tv is set to Widescreen.
If I set the 4:3 output on the DVD player to 'normal' instead of full, it gives me the right picture, but one with the black frame around it.

So far it's happened with every video from an .avi I've tried.
None of them are converted to DVD's they're just burned as data.

I bought this thing so I wouldn't have to convert everything I wanted to watch.

[guns1inger]

Most DVD players have three output settings

4:3 fullscreen or PS
4:3 letterbox
16:9 or widescreen

The first two settings will give you the borders you are seeing to some degree. The last one should give you a better fit to your screen. You should not be using a 4:3 output at all for a widescreen TV.

[Nocontact]

That's why this is completely confusing me. Standard DVDs play fine and the aspect ratio is right.
When I play an .avi though that's on a data DVD as opposed to a DVD with VTS folders, I either get a stretched, or when I tweak the settings, a normal picture with borders top, bottom, left and right.

[TJohns]

Borders all round? Sounds like you might have a 16:9 original video that was letterboxed to 4:3 (top/bottom), and to play this 4:3 on you widescreen TV it'd being pillarboxed to 16:9 (left/right)

[Nocontact]

It's happening with all the avi files I try. For example, if I'm trying to watch a recent episode of SNL which has been capped in HD it is boxed all around. But the same thing happened with an AVI of any resolution. So it's not just one file, it's any file I've tried.

I bought this thing so I wouldn't have to convert everything to a DVD. This is very frustrating.

By the way, all these files look fine when played on my PC

[edDV]

It's happening with all the avi files I try. For example, if I'm trying to watch a recent episode of SNL which has been capped in HD it is boxed all around. But the same thing happened with an AVI of any resolution. So it's not just one file, it's any file I've tried.

I bought this thing so I wouldn't have to convert everything to a DVD. This is very frustrating.

By the way, all these files look fine when played on my PC

How did you cap this HD SNL file?

That player won't play anything larger than 720x480 so how did you convert it for playback?

My guess is you or someone else is capturing HD 16:9 from a cable box S-Video port which letterboxes to 4x3. When you play 4x3 to a 16:9 monitor you get pillarbox left and right. Result is black on four sides.

[Nocontact]

Would that explain all the other files being stretched also?
Because no matter what the aspect ratio is (except 4:3) unless I set the DVD player settings in a peculiar way, the best I can come up with is the black on four sides. That's the only way I'm getting the proper image.
It's an upconverting player so I thought it was supposed to output in 1080p.

I tried it with a few documentaries that are in different ars too so it's not just the one type of file.

[edDV]

Would that explain all the other files being stretched also?
Because no matter what the aspect ratio is (except 4:3) unless I set the DVD player settings in a peculiar way, the best I can come up with is the black on four sides. That's the only way I'm getting the proper image.
It's an upconverting player so I thought it was supposed to output in 1080p.

I tried it with a few documentaries that are in different ars too so it's not just the one type of file.

How are you capturing?

A capture file like this is letterboxed 4x3.
On a 16x9 display, it will display with black pillars left and right for black on all four sides .


This is what a 16x9 "wide" frame looks like when sized to DVD 720x480.
It is horzontally compressed and flagged as wide.


When set for 720p or 1080i out, the DVD player will rescale 720x480 to square pixels for 16x9 output.
When set for 480i or 480p wide out, the DVD player will pass the flagged 720x480 version and the TV does the 16x9 rescale.

[jagabo]

Here's a 640x360 square pixel Xvid file. You should be able to display this full screen on a 16:9 HDTV and the square in the middle should remain a square.

640x360.avi

As others have pointed out, your DVD player should be set to widescreen or 16:9 output. The HDTV should also be set to widescreen or 16:9.

If you can't get your DVD player to display this full screen then it's simply not capable of doing it.

[Nocontact]

So I take it that I burn that file to a dvd and try to play it with normal settings and the square should stay in the middle?

[jagabo]

Yes, the image should fill the screen (you may or may not see the very edges depending on whether your TV simulates overscan or not) and the white square in the middle should remain a square, not a rectangle.

[edDV]

You still haven't explained how you are capturing your video.

[Nocontact]

It's not things I've capped myself. It's other people's caps. But the thing is that they're all different aspect ratios from 16:9 to others. That's why I don't think the issue is the source, I think it's the hardware.

[midnightsun]

The thing is that, as adDV pointed out, IF these videos are encoded as letterboxed 16:9 (i.e. a 16:9 shaped rectangle inside a 4:3 rectangle with black bars at the top and bottom) unless you zoom in you're always going to see black on all four sides if you're using a 16:9 TV. That may also explain why 4:3 videos are displayed correctly as you say.

[jagabo]

Did my test video fill your 16:9 HDTV screen?

Here's a 640x480 square pixel AVI (4:3). On a 16:9 HDTV it should fill the frame from top to bottom and there should be black pillarboxes on both sides. The white square in the middle should remain a square, not distort into a rectangle.

640x480.avi

And here is a 16:9 video letterboxed in a 4:3 frame. I made the letterbox bars cyan instead of black to make them obvious. On a 16:9 HDTV there should be a small 16:9 image in the middle of the screen with cyan letterbox bars top and bottom, and black pillarbox bars on the sides. As usual, the white square in the middle should remain a square. Some HDTV's have a zoom feature that will let you zoom into this and eliminate both the black letterbox bars and cyan pillarbox bars. The result is a much blurrier picture though.

16x9in4x3.avi

[Nocontact]

The 640x480 filled the screen but the square was a stretched to a rectangle. The only way I could make it a square was to set the DVD player 4:3 output to 'Normal' in which the case the image appeared correctly but it was letterboxed on the sides and on the top and bottom.

[edDV]

The 640x480 filled the screen but the square was a stretched to a rectangle. The only way I could make it a square was to set the DVD player 4:3 output to 'Normal' in which the case the image appeared correctly but it was letterboxed on the sides and on the top and bottom.

If you set the DVD player to 4:3 "normal", you are sending 4:3 and the TV compensates with side bars.

If you set the DVD player to 4:3 wide stretch, the DVD player stretches the picture horizontally and sends that as 16:9.

If you set the player to 16:9 wide out, and play a 16:9 file you should fill the screen. If you play a 4:3 file, the player adds the side pillars.


What model number is the TV?

The TV needs to be set to 16:9 to accept the above.

[Nocontact]

It's a Sony KLV-S26A 10

[edDV]

It's a Sony KLV-S26A 10

Check out page 38 of your manual for all the TV mode settings for 4:3 or 16:9 source.
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KLVS26A10_W_OM.pdf

Test Jagabo's source files with the various DVD player and TV mode settings.

[Nocontact]

Thank you. But none of these examples show the issue I'm commonly experiencing which is black bars on the sides AND on the top and bottom.

[edDV]

Thank you. But none of these examples show the issue I'm commonly experiencing which is black bars on the sides AND on the top and bottom.

That is because your source is letterboxed like my top picture above.

I think I know what is going on. Your friend is recording off a Roger's etc. Motorlola HD cable box S-Video out and the result is exactly what I'm showing on that top picture (recorded from a Comcast Mototola HD cable box).

[Nocontact]

I see what you're saying. But when I say there are black bars on the sides AND on top and bottom, it's not like in that first picture. It's more like the image in in the middle of the screen and the bars are all the same size as if it's a thick picture frame.
In that first picture, there are bars, but they are very thin.
In my case, the bars on the sides, are thick like the ones on top and bottom.

[manono]

In my case, the bars on the sides, are thick like the ones on top and bottom.

Yes, but what he said was that on a 16:9 TV set you'll view it like that picture, but with the addition of pillarbars on the sides.

On a 16x9 display, it will display with black pillars left and right for black on all four sides .

That is, you'll see it as you see it on your TV set, picture on the middle surrounded on all 4 sides by a lot of black.

[edDV]

Put that picture into this and you have black on four sides.



and you can zoom it to look like this



A full 16:9 picture needs a different capture method.

[Nocontact]

Put that picture into this and you have black on four sides.

So the picture of the lake is from a 4:3 tv?

Sorry if I keep covering the same ground, I'm just trying to keep track of everything that is being said.

So basically there is no solution to this then other than watching it with the picture in the center and letterboxing on all four sides, if I want the original AR?

[guns1inger]

You can crop it back to 16:9 and re-encode it. That would solve your problem.

Or get it from a different source.

The TV is not the issue. The image above is a 16:9 image recorded as a 4:3 recording with letterbox bars. Some recorders do this with widescreen material.

[edDV]

Put that picture into this and you have black on four sides.

So the picture of the lake is from a 4:3 tv?

Sorry if I keep covering the same ground, I'm just trying to keep track of everything that is being said.

Nothing to do with a TV. That is what gets captured off the S-Video port of a Motorola HD cable box to a VCR or file. The black bars top and bottom are in the source. Left and right black pillars get added by the DVD player or TV depending on settings.

So basically there is no solution to this then other than watching it with the picture in the center and letterboxing on all four sides, if I want the original AR?

You would capture from the analog component or IEEE-1394 ports on that HD cable box like I did for pictures 2 and 3. Or capture from an ATSC or QAM tuner.

Or you can cut the center 16:9 picture (~704x396) out of the letterbox and resize it to 704x480 and flag it wide. It will then display 16:9 on the TV.

If you just hit zoom on the remote, you get a vertically cropped 16:9.

[jagabo]

Watch my 16x9in4x3.avi sample on your HDTV. It will be immediately obvious to you why you have black bars on all four sides. Your source video has black letterbox bars as part of the picture because it was a 16:9 broadcast captured in a 4:3 frame:



I've replaced the black bars with cyan bars to make so it will be obvious what happens in the next step. To properly display that 4:3 frame on your HDTV it adds black pillarbox bars on the sides: