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  1. Started the process of converting a load of S-VHS tapes to DVD.
    Currently digitizing them ..... when I finally come to authoring to DVD ..... just checking on blank media ?

    I have until now used VERBATIM -R 16x (AZ0+) ... MCC 03RG20

    From what I can see on-line, these are suitable as Master & Archival disks, is this correct ?

    Secondly are Print on disks OK, or should these be avoided ?
    Having disks that I can also print direct label information is a benefit ... I have an HP drive that has Lightscribe capability.
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    Tafflad,

    Since you specified the disks would be used as "Master & Archival disks", which implies that the highest priority is guaranteed (as much as possible) readability, I would personally suggest that you would probably be better off using (good) 8x media instead of (good) 16x media.

    The reasoning behind that belief is the following:

    The faster the burn speed, the faster the disk is spinning during recording. As the rotational speed of the disk increases, the amount of time the laser has to make the recording mark decreases...which requires higher laser power...which generates more heat in the dye layer. If the increased heat isn't dissipated quickly enough, the thermal reaction continues in the dye even after the laser is no longer on a given spot, which can cause a variety of read problems related to the size and "sharpness" of the recording mark. The thermal related problems are considerably more significant (at least at the current level of technology) at 16x.

    I've never actually timed the difference between recording at 16x and 8x, but I would guess it's no more than about one or two minutes per disk. Especially for "Master & Archival disks", the tradeoff doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
    ...are Print on disks OK...
    I've used quite a few inkjet printables with no problems (short or long run), but I haven't used lightscribe. It seems likely lightscribe wouldn't cause problems either. Maybe someone who has familiarity with using lightscribe will share their experiences with you.
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  3. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Using 16x media is fine -- there is no scientific data suggesting 8x discs are better than 16x. Just burn at 8x or 12x, and not 16x. List of good media at http://www.digitalfaq.com/reviews/dvd-media.htm
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  4. Taht was the FAQ I used to confirm that the discs I use are "1st class" ... so looks like my discs are OK ... and I will follow advice of burning the acrhive ones at 8x
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    I would suggest burning at 4x, which in my very limited testing showed to be of higher quality according to disc scans than faster speed burns. I definitely don't recommend burning at 16x.

    I strongly suggest that you NOT use Lightscribe. I owned 3 different Lightscribe drives and EVERY ONE of them developed problems. All of them. The first thing that goes is the ability to burn DL media correctly. Some DL will work, others will be coasters. More and more DL burns will begin to fail. This was followed by the drive losing the ability to burn either single layer DVD or CD (it varied which went bad) and yet retaining the ability to burn Lightscribe and either single DVD or CD (but not both). Others here have reported similar stories. Lightscribe takes forever to burn (about 20 minutes per disc at the darkest possible setting) and the labels are never really dark enough, not even at the darkest setting. Some of my labels, none of which are exposed to sunlight or temperature extremes, are now fading. Once I burned a label twice and it got sufficiently dark enough, but my drive never was the same after that.
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  6. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    Your Verbatim DVD-R 16x MCC03RG20 discs are probably fine but Verbatim is no longer reliable batch to batch. It's like shooting craps. So suggest you familiarize yourself with Nero DVD/CDSpeed and quality-scan discs burnt at different speeds. That's the only way to know for sure whether you have a good batch of discs.
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Verbatim media is fine.

    There is no such thing as a "batch" of discs, as discussed in online forums. It's a myth created and perpetuated solely in online user forums. You never see the term "batch" being used by professional media testing groups. It's just silly.
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  8. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Verbatim media is fine.

    There is no such thing as a "batch" of discs, as discussed in online forums. It's a myth created and perpetuated solely in online user forums. You never see the term "batch" being used by professional media testing groups. It's just silly.
    It's not silly. It's a fact as I've proved time and again. When you order Verbatim discs, you're shooting craps because you never know what you'll get. The same disk type comes in different qualities depending on the batch. Sometimes they're OK, sometimes not. The only way to know for sure is to quality-scan with Nero DVD/CDSpeed.
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  9. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    You've not proven anything. Sorry, but you've fallen prey from reading too many myths online. It's not your fault the info you read was so bad. What you think is true, and what really is true, just aren't the same. Further your knowledge, get away from the myth and BS.

    We've already discussed this in the past: https://forum.videohelp.com/topic376174.html
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  10. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    Wrong, it's based on facts proven in scientific tests with Nero DVD/CDSpeed. It is you who are propagating the myth that it's impossible for users to conduct their own tests and verify the quality of discs. Nothing could be further from the truth. Either you don't know what you're talking about, or you have a secret agenda of some kind (only god knows what).
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  11. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Ah yes, my secret conspiracy. Curses, foiled again.

    From myths to conspiracy theory... this is good stuff!
    Remember to wear your tinfoil hat to bed tonight.
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  12. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    Kiss my ass.
    Idiot!
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  13. I agree with lordsmurf, Verbatims are fine. I've been using them for 4+ years with zero problems.
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  14. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyBob
    Wrong, it's based on facts proven in scientific tests with Nero DVD/CDSpeed.
    That statement is an oxymoron,most experiencered users have dumped nero long ago and use imgburn for burning and verifying dvd/cd.Nero is no longer reliable.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  15. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by johns0
    Originally Posted by JohnnyBob
    Wrong, it's based on facts proven in scientific tests with Nero DVD/CDSpeed.
    That statement is an oxymoron,most experiencered users have dumped nero long ago and use imgburn for burning and verifying dvd/cd.Nero is no longer reliable.
    That's a non sequitur. Of course Imgburn is best for burning. That has nothing to do with Nero DVD/CDSpeed which is used for various disc tests including quality scanning. It's the only reliable tool available to users in that regard. And yes, Verbatim is often good quality but there are exceptions.
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  16. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    I meant for nero scanning,its not reliable.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  17. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    I meant for nero speed testing,its not reliable.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  18. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by johns0
    I meant for nero speed testing,its not reliable.
    I'm not sure you're on the logic train. Nero has various utilities which are perfectly reliable such Nero BackItUp and CDSpeed (or DVDSpeed in later versions). Neither of these perform "speed testing" insofar as I'm aware. That's just the name, not the function. There are various functions including quality scanning of burned discs which gives a good idea about the quality of the media.
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  19. Originally Posted by JohnnyBob
    Your Verbatim DVD-R 16x MCC03RG20 discs are probably fine but Verbatim is no longer reliable batch to batch. It's like shooting craps. So suggest you familiarize yourself with Nero DVD/CDSpeed and quality-scan discs burnt at different speeds. That's the only way to know for sure whether you have a good batch of discs.

    Good comments ... so what do you use to lable your disks ? .... or just a felt pen ?
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  20. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    Nero is crap to begin with,i wouldnt recommend it for anything.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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  21. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tafflad
    Originally Posted by JohnnyBob
    Your Verbatim DVD-R 16x MCC03RG20 discs are probably fine but Verbatim is no longer reliable batch to batch. It's like shooting craps. So suggest you familiarize yourself with Nero DVD/CDSpeed and quality-scan discs burnt at different speeds. That's the only way to know for sure whether you have a good batch of discs.

    Good comments ... so what do you use to lable your disks ? .... or just a felt pen ?
    I store most of my DVDs in slim CD cases and write on the cases, not the discs, however it's OK to write on the discs with a felt tip pen. DVDs are more durable than CDs in that regard. It's best not to write on CDs.
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyBob
    . It's best not to write on CDs.
    More myth.
    As long as the disc has a "writing surface" (be it branding or inkjet material), you're free to write on a CD. What you don't want to do is write directly onto CD-R foil. There's a big difference between the top of a CD, and the foil of the CD. Long-term chemical reactions and pressure damage the foil on CD-R.
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  23. Print on Discs are just fine. Now spraying them later with something like clear spray can cause problems

    I use Verbatim DL 2.4/4x printables and TY 8x hub printables

    I don't do speed tests or the what not. I just use ImgBurn's verify after burning. If it verifies, I know all the data is there. If it doesn't play right. I can copy and reburn the disc
    tgpo famous MAC commercial, You be the judge?
    Originally Posted by jagabo
    I use the FixEverythingThat'sWrongWithThisVideo() filter. Works perfectly every time.
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Using 16x media is fine -- there is no scientific data suggesting 8x discs are better than 16x. Just burn at 8x or 12x, and not 16x.
    From US Patent 7443776 (issued to Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co., Ltd., which is the parent of Verbatim):
    ...
    However, the recordable DVD has a tendency that high-velocity recording causes thermal interference between recording marks. Accordingly it is said that high-velocity recording is difficult to be realized. In a recordable DVD using organic dye, a semiconductor laser beam at a wavelength in the neighborhood of 660 nm is applied to record a mark. In such recordable DVD, an increase in the recording velocity (that is, an increase in recording frequency) causes an increase in laser power required for recording..., and causes a difficulty of securing a sufficient time period to allow heat generated by the laser beam for forming a recording mark to escape. For this reason, in the recordable DVD, the heat generated at the time of mark recording has a larger effect on formation of the preceding and following marks, which causes a difficulty of accurately forming recording marks. Such thermal interference causes a decrease in margin of the recording power at a recording linear velocity at a higher level in recordable DVD using organic dye. It is therefore considered that it is difficult to realize, in recordable DVD, recording at a high velocity not less than 8-times velocity.
    ...
    Compare the patent excerpt with the explanation I provided in my previous post in this thread. The similiarities should be obvious, but there are two differences that should be clarified:

    1) The patent excerpt is addressing the problems with reliably achieving 8x, which was the hurdle at that point in time. That problem has since been solved (within reason), and the current hurdle is 16x, which is why I said in my earlier post "The thermal related problems are considerably more significant (at least at the current level of technology) at 16x". Other than that, the problem is identical...inadequate heat dissipation causes read problems/failures.

    2) The patent excerpt specifies "thermal interference" as the obstacle. Thermal interference is where the marks are so enlarged (and/or deformed) by the lack of adequate heat dissipation that differentiation between adjacent marks (or nearby marks in adjacent tracks) becomes impossible...in other words, the data cannot be reliably read (at all) where thermal interference exists. In my previous post, I was addressing much less serious errors in mark size and/or mark deformation. Once again, the problem is identical, with the only difference being the degree of read difficulty.

    What makes me think the same problem currently exists with 16x media? Consider "US 2009/0098410 A1" (US Patent application dated just seven months ago):
    ...
    However, for high-speed recording, particularly recording at a 12x or higher speed, a problem of insufficient sensitivity caused by limited output of a recording laser, a problem of increasing thermal interference among recording pits due to heat generated when forming pits or a problem of deteriorated jitter or the like has been manifested.
    ...
    In case it isn't obvious, these patent remarks are straight from the companies that actually produce the media we all use, and are not a result of some obscure theoretical experiment with no application in the real world.

    As always, what anyone chooses to believe is entirely up to them. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest what they choose to believe...I'm just trying to provide "known to be accurate" background, to make it easier for everyone to decide what is fact, and what isn't. I stand by the information I provided in my previous post. Take it or leave it.

    I do have one final thing that needs to be said...a disk designed as 16x (burned at 8x) is not the same as a disk designed as 8x (burned at 8x). I would think common sense is all that's needed to figure that one out.
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    Yep, aware of the Mitsubishi information. But it refers to speed of the burn, not the media itself. The MCC03RG20 DVD-R is 1x-16x rated, unlike 8x discs which are apparently NOT rated for lower speeds. Beyond that, there were some QC issues in the 8x gen MCC media. Trying to hunt down old stock media just isn't ideal unless you have an old-old burner that can't see the newer discs AND works poorly at default write strategies (which is rare for MCC media).
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  26. ...C O P Y L E F T JohnnyBob's Avatar
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    The mythology spiders spin their web like always, but best to ignore them and their worthless unsupported generalizations. Make your own tests and quality scans with DVD/CDSpeed, then you'll have something concrete (not a myth) to go on. Your own tests and good logic are the only true guide.
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  27. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    If you really, really want to use 8x discs, then there's a pretty good price on 8x Verbatim discs at Geeks.
    Get the DVD+R here or the DVD-R here.
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    If you really, really want to use 8x discs, then there's a pretty good price on 8x Verbatim discs at Geeks.
    Get the DVD+R here or the DVD-R here.
    Thanks but no thanks LS..I'll stick to 16x verbies, and happily/reliably burn @ 8x..Oh crap!..Here we go again!..
    " Who needs Google, my wife knows everything"
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