Muxing two separate video and audio codecs, and maintaining the quality?

[FatalX]

Hey, I have two video files here. There is one that I want only the video from (MPEG-4 Visual) and one that I want only the audio from (AC-3).


I want to mux both together into one file, but I dont want to lose any video quality.

Also, at the same time, I need to make some edits to the audio in order for it to go properly with the video. So Ill need some kind of tool that I can use to cut the AC-3 audio, and then edit it with the video accordingly.

Does anybody know any tool or software I can use to do this?

[FatalX]

Also, I've realized that there may be some other videos I want to add to the entire file.

So basically, I just want to mux files from different sources all into one, do some cutting and editing, without losing and video quality.

Is that possible?

Also, Ive noticed when I convert the file from mkv to m2ts, it jumps from 480 MB to 1.45 GB.

I dont want to waste that much space, what else can I possibly convert it to without such an increase?

[Cornucopia]

You need to get clearer what's possible vs. what you want.

Do you want to edit audio, particularly syncing alongside the video? If so, then you'll need a full-fledged video editor, and you'll likely have to recompress, lossing some quality (although possibly ONLY in the audio, and maybe not to any perceptible amount).

Do you want the output to be in a different format than the input? If so, then you'll HAVE to re-encode (either with a converter, or with a full-fledged editor).
You MIGHT be able to get by without re-encoding if ALL your input videos, and your output video will all be the same format & specs, but you'll have to do cuts ONLY on the I-frame (full/key frame, not delta frames), and use an editor that uses "Smart Rendering".

You're going to have to work backwards.
Figure out what you need in terms of format (to match your players' capabilities), then using an estimate of the final length (in terms of TIME), and an estimate of the required bitrate (based on quality needs), you'll get your total filesize. Or, using length and required cap/limit on the filesize, you get the bitrate you'll need to encode to (and you'll have to live with whatever quality that produces).

Scott

[FatalX]

Do you want to edit audio, particularly syncing alongside the video? If so, then you'll need a full-fledged video editor, and you'll likely have to recompress, lossing some quality (although possibly ONLY in the audio, and maybe not to any perceptible amount).

Yes, this is what I'd like to do basically. I dont mind if Im forced to lose some audio quality, as long as I maintain the video quality.

Do you want the output to be in a different format than the input? If so, then you'll HAVE to re-encode (either with a converter, or with a full-fledged editor).
You MIGHT be able to get by without re-encoding if ALL your input videos, and your output video will all be the same format & specs, but you'll have to do cuts ONLY on the I-frame (full/key frame, not delta frames), and use an editor that uses "Smart Rendering".

I am perfectly fine with doing cuts only on the key frames, I have a lot of experience with it.
As for the output file, Im trying to play these mkv files on my PS3. MKV isnt compatible, so I want to convert the files to just another holder like M2TS or MP4 that is compatible, and wont lose any quality.

You're going to have to work backwards.
Figure out what you need in terms of format (to match your players' capabilities), then using an estimate of the final length (in terms of TIME), and an estimate of the required bitrate (based on quality needs), you'll get your total filesize. Or, using length and required cap/limit on the filesize, you get the bitrate you'll need to encode to (and you'll have to live with whatever quality that produces).

Scott

Well, like I said, Ill need an M2TS or an MP4 file. My issue with the M2TS is that it is way too big, and I think it is transcoded since the MPEG-2 Video is converted to AVC, which results in a loss of quality.

To sum everything up, basically:

I want to be able to edit an AC-3 audio file, and then mux it with an MPEG-4 video file, and possibly make some final edits and cuts to that file and lose none, or very little quality.

Are there any possible MP4 editors that can do this job? As I said, M2TS converts the video file and the file size is much too large.

Thanks for the help

[Cornucopia]

Going of memory here, so bear with me (and if I make a mistake, don't hold it against me)...

Since there aren't any MKV-native video editors out there, you're going to have to get it into some other format first.

You don't say WHAT kind of MPEG-4 it is...

Is it?:
1. MP4 SP@ML like so many 3GP and Apple videos
2. MP4 MP@ML, like DivX or Xvid
3. h.264

Each of these will determine how it's remuxed, and what app.
1 - MP4Box or QT are good
2. DivXMux, AVIMux-GUI are good
3. not sure, but YAMB is probably ok

Now, editors...that's another problem as they are usually AVI or MPEG2-based. If it's actually DivX-type mp4 video, you could remux to AVI and then do a cuts-only edit in Virtualdub (direct-stream mode).

M2TS is the container and while it mentions MPEG2, it can also hold MPEG4 video, but once again you've got to find an editor that does smart rendering with the kind of video you have.

Get MediaInfo and upload the properties description of your file(s). Start looking at the Tools section (to the left <- ) to find an editor that supports what you're trying to do. Work on the video only, as it's VERY LIKELY that you'll have to re-encode the audio from what you mentioned. When it comes time - put both the Audio & the Video on the timeline to facilitate getting them into sync. Save a copy of the timeline/session once it's done, then save an additional Video-stream only copy, and an Audio-stream-only copy. Render from those separately (so it won't kick so easily into "reencode" mode). Then remux them again AFTER they've been exported/rendered.

Scott

[Ai Haibara]

AVIDemux edits MKV natively, IIRC. But (also IIRC) MKV's not a container as well-suited to editing as, say, a standard AVI, especially since almost anything can be packaged in an MKV.

[FatalX]

Going of memory here, so bear with me (and if I make a mistake, don't hold it against me)...

Since there aren't any MKV-native video editors out there, you're going to have to get it into some other format first.

You don't say WHAT kind of MPEG-4 it is...

Is it?:
1. MP4 SP@ML like so many 3GP and Apple videos
2. MP4 MP@ML, like DivX or Xvid
3. h.264

Each of these will determine how it's remuxed, and what app.
1 - MP4Box or QT are good
2. DivXMux, AVIMux-GUI are good
3. not sure, but YAMB is probably ok

Thanks a lot for the help

This is the info from MediaInfo for the video

Video
ID : 1
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format settings, BVOP : No
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Default (H.263)
Codec ID : DX50
Codec ID/Hint : DivX 5
Duration : 23mn 22s
Bit rate : 2 642 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.120
Stream size : 442 MiB (91%)
Writing library : DivX 6.8.5 (UTC 2009-08-20)

And this is the info for the Audio I want to use.

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Duration : 19mn 49s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Stream size : 54.5 MiB (51%)

So, Im assuming ill be able to use Virtualdub to make the necessary edits to the video, and then export it as an individual video file.
Then I could use another editor for the audio, and export that as its own individual file.

And then I could use DivXMux or AVIMux to remux both files into one new one, and there will be no quality loss?



As for M2TS, you say that it can hold MPEG4 video. How can I make it do so? When I use mk2vob, it always transcodes the video and I end up with a huge file with an AVC video codec and AC3 audio codec.

Would it be possible for me to have an M2TS file with MPEG-4 video and AC3 audio?

The M2TS file just make everything easier, as I can use TSMuxer and TSDoctor to make all the necessary edits and do all the muxing since I have prior experience with it.

But my main issue is the transcoding, and the file size increase. I assume that if a file is not transcoded, the size of the file should not increase. In fact, my file size should be even less than the original since Im making some cuts and edits.

AVIDemux edits MKV natively, IIRC. But (also IIRC) MKV's not a container as well-suited to editing as, say, a standard AVI, especially since almost anything can be packaged in an MKV.

AVIDemux has been giving me a lot of issues, every time i try to save the edited file it just goes crazy on me and does not respond.

Thanks again for the help

[Ai Haibara]

AVIDemux has been giving me a lot of issues, every time i try to save the edited file it just goes crazy on me and does not respond.

Thanks again for the help

How is it going crazy? Is it just 'not responding' (Windows' term for it) for a long period of time?
Even on the system listed in my Computer Details, while AVIDemux does work a LOT faster and better than it did on my previous Vista system, there are still times when it'll just sit there, unresponsive, for a period of time... such as when I add an .ass subtitle filter and then go back to the main window, the normal way. But, it does return eventually.

Not that I want to think about how long the delay would be on my other systems.

[poisondeathray]

So, Im assuming ill be able to use Virtualdub to make the necessary edits to the video, and then export it as an individual video file.
Then I could use another editor for the audio, and export that as its own individual file.

And then I could use DivXMux or AVIMux to remux both files into one new one, and there will be no quality loss?

Yes.

But depending on what kind of "edits" you are doing, it might be easier to use software with a timeline just so you can match up the audio & video sync, then export only the audio to mux using AVIMuxGUI

Delaycut can edit AC3 losslessly if you have timecodes (e.g if you know exactly you want to cut off a section)

[FatalX]

AVIDemux has been giving me a lot of issues, every time i try to save the edited file it just goes crazy on me and does not respond.

Thanks again for the help

How is it going crazy? Is it just 'not responding' (Windows' term for it) for a long period of time?
Even on the system listed in my Computer Details, while AVIDemux does work a LOT faster and better than it did on my previous Vista system, there are still times when it'll just sit there, unresponsive, for a period of time... such as when I add an .ass subtitle filter and then go back to the main window, the normal way. But, it does return eventually.

Not that I want to think about how long the delay would be on my other systems.

Well basically, whenever I edit the video and finalize all the changes, and then go to save the file, it just basically freezes and Windows tells me that its not responding.

I wait like 10 mins nothing happens lol, I dunno why :S

Yes.

But depending on what kind of "edits" you are doing, it might be easier to use software with a timeline just so you can match up the audio & video sync, then export only the audio to mux using AVIMuxGUI

Delaycut can edit AC3 losslessly if you have timecodes (e.g if you know exactly you want to cut off a section)

I see, maybe I could use Windows Movie Maker.
Just convert both files to a WMM compatible file, do my edits on that timeline, and then export the audio and mux it with my unedited video stream into a completely new file

Or should I just avoid WMM since itll convert the audio to WMA?

[poisondeathray]

I see, maybe I could use Windows Movie Maker.
Just convert both files to a WMM compatible file, do my edits on that timeline, and then export the audio and mux it with my unedited video stream into a completely new file

Or should I just avoid WMM since itll convert the audio to WMA?

Yes, I would avoid WMM. Ideally you could export WAV audio, or whatever your final audio format goal is.

What kind of edits are you doing? Just cuts? Only audio?

If it's simple enough you could use delaycut. If there are timing issues or multiple sections, you will probably need a dedicated editor like vegas or premiere or something with a timeline to line things up