What education did you obtain?

[deadrats]

My job - my DUTY - as a parent is to give my kids what they need to function in life. If the school won't/can't teach it, I will.

really?!? you're qualified to teach your children: oxidation reduction, rutherford scattering, covalent bonding, pascal, fortran, gaussian transforms, maxwell/faraday field theorems, keynesian economics, et al? you must be one hell of a f*cking genius!!!

let me guess, as far as you're concerned kids don't need to worry about such silly topics like physics, advanced mathematics, chemistry, economics or other "worthless" intellectual endeavors.

Why in the world would I leave the absolute education of my kids to chance? I've met their teachers. Most of them are bright, well-meaning souls who are driven to share what they know. Some of them are idiots who would be better suited bagging groceries. Others no longer give a damn. So, who exactly would you recommend to take up the slack? I know the answer. It's my wife and me. You can wax on poetic and lambast me all you want, but that's the bottom line.

no, the bottom line is that you have your head so far up your ass that sunlight can no longer reach your eyes. (i wonder if you can see the ironies in these statements).

who said anything about "leaving my kids education to chance"? what i said was that there is a huge disparity between the education received in public schools in a poor area and that received in an affluent area and there is a bigger disparity still when we add private "prep" schools to the mix.

We can live our lives blaming someone else for our shortcomings. It's very easy to blame government, too. And they deserve it to a degree. But it doesn't matter. Bureaucracy will not change to accomodate you or anyone else.

"Poor little fellow couldn't take calculus when he was young. Let's change the whole system to accomodate him." Now that's preposterous.

no, it's called leveling the playing field. "bureaucracies" do change all the time if enough people complain loudly enough. i have no problem with losing out on an opening in an prestigious school or losing out on a lucrative job as long as it's to someone that is genuinely smarter than me, but i do have a serious problem losing out because he was given a head start that began with first grade and continued to the end of senior year.

furthermore, by definition a government "governs" (in case you couldn't derive the meaning from the root) and thus when someone else is making the rules by which we live then when said rules are faulty that is who must be blamed. it's not only our right but our duty are americans to do so.

by the way, before you take over your kid's education from the schools i suggest you learn how to use a spell checker, call me a pessimist but i have trouble believing that someone can teach his kids any intellectually challenging topic when he can't even have a program properly spell "accommodate" or "lambaste" for him.

Ultimately though, it's our responsibility to make what we will of our lives and to teach our children to be self-sufficient.

Wollow in self pity if you want; or change yourself. The choice is yours, but you may rest assured that no one's going to change for you.

thank you bizarro socrates, you remind me of the self righteous pricks, who in order to justify their opposition to helping their fellow man, banter around the tired old axiom "if you give a man a fish he will eat for a day, if you teach him to fish he will eat for a life time".

of course they never bother to explain how that man is supposed to fish if you make sure that the fishing gear is prohibitively expensive, the transportation to a body of water is unattainable, bait is nowhere to be found, and he doesn't have access to a boat to go out on the water.

but hey, you taught him how to fish, what is he complaining about?

[fritzi93]

I have to respond to that.

My wife *IS* a teacher, middle school science, nearing retirement. She has taught science classes, served as a parochial school principal, and is currently science department head at a large school. Through her long career, she has found that the single biggest factor in a child's success or failure is home environment.

Some parents can't be bothered to come to a conference discussing their child's progress or lack thereof. Other parents, when informed of their child's behavior problems, will make excuses for the child and/or blame the teachers, administration, anyone other than themselves or their child. Some are merely ineffectual parents at their wit's end. Some children are from broken homes. Some parents are drug abusers...the list is very long.

The common thread is that children from a stable home, whose parents are engaged in their child's development, are rarely a problem, and they tend to do well. Middle school is a particularly critical period for children. My wife has pretty much seen it all. Far, far too many children have behavioral problems. They bring their problems with them into the classroom. Does the teacher have to be a parent as well?

I'll cut short a potentially long post with this: If more parents had dadrab's attitude, their children would have a better chance. Too many parents today have totally abdicated responsibility for their child's upbringing.

Challenging courses be damned. When the teacher is dealing with disruptive behavior, that's utterly wasted time. Particularly for those children in the class who ARE willing to learn.

[deadrats]

@fritzi93

typical rhetoric used since the days of "separate but equal" to justify disparities in the quality of the social services offered to various groups.

yes, there will always be students that have violent tendencies, there will always be students that don't want to learn, there will always be students who are incapable of learning and there will always be students with disorders.

reality is however that the student from an affluent family going to a school in an affluent community is more likely to receive the help that may very well help him or her. a child born to wealthy parents attending a prestigious private school is more likely to be diagnosed with a bipolar disorder, attention deficit disorder, some other neurological problem, a drug problem and is more likely to get treatment than the kid attending public school in an urban area.

wealthy parents are absentee parents just as often, if not more so, than less well off parents, yet the outcomes for the children of each respective groups of parents heavily favors the wealthy offspring.

as for this quote:

Far, far too many children have behavioral problems. They bring their problems with them into the classroom. Does the teacher have to be a parent as well?

the reality is that the teacher is more likely to notice a behavioral problem than the parents and it has nothing to do with bad parenting, it has to do with human nature:

a child with a behavioral problem may work extra hard at hiding any issues he/she has from the parents because of fear, yet be more likely to behave as comes naturally when said parent(s) is/are not around. a teachers job is to, hold onto your hat, teach, and part of teaching is recognizing any obstacles to the child learning. furthermore, a well run school, in addition to teachers trained to spot potential behavior problems and anti-social tendencies, should also have competent guidance counselors with degrees in child psychology, more than likely the parents aren't psychologist, they don't have the ability to deal with certain issues, but the school does. furthermore a child, by nature of the parent-child relationship, is less likely to open up to the parents than he/she is to open up to a qualified counselor.

lastly the claim that because there may be a handful of disruptive students it justifies the school offering a sub-par curriculum is disingenuous at best and flat out stupid at worst. if out of a school of 1000, 100 are totally hopeless that doesn't excuse ensuring that the other 900 have a competitive disadvantage well into the later years of their lives.

[fritzi93]

Tiresome subject, and the problems seem intractable sometimes. Teaching has really beaten my wife down, it's a hard job and she's not young any more. [shrugs]

I do think you could have done without the name-calling and ad hominems.

[Noahtuck]

Derr!!!!!

I dun gots me uh 6th grade edjucasion and i is gonna be a brain surgon or Double knot spie!!!!!!!!

I duns got me uh Jet pack out bie thu cement pond!!!!!!!!

8)

[Nelson37]

Are there disparities is schools? Absolutely, my nephew lived in Chicago and he had a full-size Olympic swimming pool at his school. Elementary school, grades 1-5.

Is parent involvement necessary? You bet your ass. Another nephew, transferred from his mother (a nearly complete waste of space) to his father, had "behavioral problems". I instituted "sit down and shut up" practice, wherein he simply had to sit in one place and remain quiet for one hour. It took several days for him to understand the rules, and about two weeks to groove into the concept, but the regular calls from the school stopped.

ADD is another subject, IMO many kids "diagnosed" with this issue simply need the above procedure, rather than powerful drugs whose long-term affects are untested and unknown. "Ritalin destroyed my mind" is a quote from a 20-something who barely survived such medication.

Once, while going over a failed test with him, I was rather surprised to discover that he seemed to actually know the material. At one point, he exclaimed "Wow, if I had just read the questions, I'd have gotten the right answers!". My response was "What system were you using to determine what you should right down?" Never did get an understandable answer.

Had about two years with this kid, his early training to just take the easy way out was difficult to overcome, but we were making progress. Then his mother decided she wanted him back, so off he went. Did not graduate high school, and last I heard he had become a heroin addict.

Most common problem I see with kids is a lack of respect for authority, or what I like to call "Fear of the Right Hand of GOD." Properly implemented, the Right Hand of GOD need never be actually used, but the child must have no doubt that it is there and available.

I often disagree with parents who seem to think that their job is to see to it that the child has a wonderful, happy, carefree existence and loves their parent and thinks they're great. These are good things, and nice to have. However, the job of a parent is to get their child prepared to take his or her place in society to the best of their ability and desire, if you can get #1 and #2, fantastic, but if the only way #2 can be achieved is for my child to believe I am the meanest, nastiest SOB on the face of the earth, then that is a sacrifice I am prepared to make.

Guess I should answer the Poll question. Associates degree in Computer Science.

[dadrab]

deadrats, I tire of arguing with your ignorant idea of bliss. Go spew that pseudo intellectual bullshit somewhere else.

You're not even bright enough to realize that, with your raving ramblings, you've proven almost every point I tried to put forward. If there's anything in life I detest, it going point by point with a dumbass. Even with (or perhaps despite) careful explaination, the world will always be out to get you. And, before you tout the virtues of irony in my post, perhaps it would be more educational for you to look up the meaning of the word. As sorry as your schooling might have been, I bet they did try to teach you to capitalize the first letter of the first word in a sentence. Or, perhaps that's your clever idea of "lashing out" at the language. Excuse me for standing in the way of your little protest.

Oh, and excuse my misspellings. I'll try to do better, Dr. deadrats.

"Level playing field" my ass. The harsh truth of the matter is no two humans learn the same. Some never learn at all. Still others can't be taught because they know everything already.

I understand Shangri-La is nice this time of year. I won't see you there, but enjoy your trip, in so much as you're capable of enjoying anything.





@fritzi93

Teaching has really beaten my wife down, it's a hard job and she's not young any more. [shrugs]

I'm sorry for that. You're right. It's a tough, thankless job. But, I get the feeling she's pretty good at it or she wouldn't care enough to let it get her down. For her efforts, I'm appreciative (and I'll bet I'm not alone).

[fritzi93]

I wouldn't want to paint too bleak a picture. It's the positive things that keep my wife going: parents willing to work constructively with her, and not dismiss out of hand her suggestions; kids who make an honest effort; and especially former students who take the time to come back and thank her. Some are now teachers themselves, and one works in the same department.

But she's getting tired and ready for retirement. Thanks for the kind sentiments.

[16mmJunkie]

Started college and never finished the 2 year degree I was working on in the 70's. Recently, enrolled again to complete it.

[deadrats]

I do think you could have done without the name-calling and ad hominems.

quite possibly, but where's the fun in that? plus, and please keep this a secret as i don't want everyone to know, i am a closet ad hominem-sexual, so i really didn't have much of a choice, i was born that way.

[deadrats]

deadrats, I tire of arguing with your ignorant idea of bliss. Go spew that pseudo intellectual bullshit somewhere else.

allow me to translate for everyone following this thread: "you kicked my ass inside of 2 posts and now i'm trying to find a way to retreat while saving face."

go ahead, i accept your surrender.

[johns0]

Can we keep to the topic here which is education without insulting each other?

[dadrab]

deadrats, I tire of arguing with your ignorant idea of bliss. Go spew that pseudo intellectual bullshit somewhere else.

allow me to translate for everyone following this thread: "you kicked my ass inside of 2 posts and now i'm trying to find a way to retreat while saving face."

go ahead, i accept your surrender.

Well, you might be pretty good at twisting someone elses words around to suit your purposes, but I bet you can't turn your sad little life into something happy and successful, can you?

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.
/ Moderator johns0

[paulw]

Did the owners of this board really need to put the poll down the bottom and place ads where it used to be??

[Noahtuck]

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.
/ Moderator johns0

Seriously!!!

WTF!!!!!!

[aedipuss]

You are in breach of the forum rules and are being issued with a formal warning.
/ Moderator johns0

Seriously!!!

WTF!!!!!!

wait. seriously, when did johns0 become a mod? congrats? a little late i guess.