BDMV structure on BD-R discs

[kurkosdr]

-Since all commercial BD movies use the BDMV structure, and BD-Recordables only support the BDAV structure, does this means it’s not possible to make an 1:1 copy of a BD-ROM movie to a BD-R? (with no conversion or re-authoring)
Sure, I can always burn all the files of the decrypted BD-ROM to the BD-R, but if the player sees a BDMV structure on a recordable disc, isn’t it going to burp the disc? (at least according to Wikipedia).

-Is the above true, that BDMV structure on BD-R discs is not compatible with all standalone players? (or I misunderstood Wikipedia?)

-What are the differences between BDMV and BDAV anyway?

-Suppose I have a decrypted BD movie in my HDD. How can I burn it to a BD-R disc the most standalone-compatible way? (guide?)

[ocgw]

-Since all commercial BD movies use the BDMV structure, and BD-Recordables only support the BDAV structure, does this means it’s not possible to make an 1:1 copy of a BD-ROM movie to a BD-R? (with no conversion or re-authoring)
Sure, I can always burn all the files of the decrypted BD-ROM to the BD-R, but if the player sees a BDMV structure on a recordable disc, isn’t it going to burp the disc? (at least according to Wikipedia).

-Is the above true, that BDMV structure on BD-R discs is not compatible with all standalone players? (or I misunderstood Wikipedia?)

-What are the differences between BDMV and BDAV anyway?

-Suppose I have a decrypted BD movie in my HDD. How can I burn it to a BD-R disc the most standalone-compatible way? (guide?)

You are worrying about nothing

When AnyDVD HD decrypts a BDMV (AACS protected) it doesn't just decrypt the disc, it removes the need for AACS protection, so any BD player just sees your "backup" as a HD home movie and plays it

It ends up being a 1:1 minus the certificate in the certificate folder

ocgw

peace

[kurkosdr]

Thanks for the reply.

You mean the only difference between BDMV and BDAV is the copy protection?

Here it says that BDAV supports only basic menus and chapters, and things like BD-J and PiP can be found only in BDMV.

It also says that only some standalone players support BDMV structure on BD-R discs. Are these players the majority of the players sold today?

[fritzi93]

The terminology is confusing you, and no wonder. :P

BDAV is Blu-ray Disc Audio Video transport stream, or, more commonly *.m2ts. The *.m2ts is what's in the BDMV (Blu-ray Disc Movie) folder. Actually the Stream folder within the BDMV folder, but never mind. It's a container format for multiplexing audio and video.

[EDIT] Who wrote that stuff anyway? The link, i mean. Oh, it's at the top of the page, the resident expert. Disregard it.

And welcome to the forum.

[fritzi93]

Okay, I found where that guy got his information: the glossary at Afterdawn:

http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/terms/bdav.cfm

I confess I don't know what to make of it. We have BD and AVCHD for home video. Never heard of that alternate meaning for BDAV. [shrugs]

[EDIT] All I can think of is it means raw AVCHD digicam files?

[ocgw]

Okay, I found where that guy got his information: the glossary at Afterdawn:

http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/terms/bdav.cfm

I confess I don't know what to make of it. We have BD and AVCHD for home video. Never heard of that alternate meaning for BDAV. [shrugs]

[EDIT] All I can think of is it means raw AVCHD digicam files?

Look @ it like this, Sony wants to make money off of everyone, but they couldn't explain HD home not being able to play in BD players

When you remove AACS from a BDMV it is basically a BDAV

badabing, badaboom

ocgw

peace

[mrswla]

...according to Wikipedia.

That's the biggest mistake.

[videopoo]

When you remove AACS from a BDMV it is basically a BDAV

No, its not.

[ocgw]

[quote="ocgw"]

When you remove AACS from a BDMV it is basically a BDAV

No, its not.

Other than the physical properties of a commercial BD-ROM disc, AACS, and the ability to create menus what is the difference between BDMV and BDAV?

More accurately when you"back-up" BD-ROM to "movie only" removing AACS it is BDAV w/ ac3 sound

http://www.campaignhd.com/807_BDR_Playback.html

"BDAV is apparently a fairly simple, stripped down "model" for recording video on a Bluray disc. Think of it as a videotape. You put a simple A/V file on the disc in a BDAV folder, and the player plays it when it is inserted. You have very little flexibility with the BDAV structure."

There you have it "in a nutshell", not different, just stripped down

When you burn a "movie only", decrypted, AACS removed blu ray to BD-R output as blu ray folder structure by TsMuxeR (and made iso by imgburn) and play it in a commercial blu ray player the player doesn't know it isn't a BDAV

ocgw

peace

[ocgw]

whoops

[videopoo]

[/quote]Other than the physical properties of a commercial BD-ROM disc, AACS, and the ability to create menus what is the difference between BDMV and BDAV? [quote]

Limited bitrates as well. Sorry I design BD menus for a living so its all about the menus LOL

[fritzi93]

Limited bitrates as well. Sorry I design BD menus for a living so its all about the menus LOL

Please elaborate. That sounds awfully like AVCHD.

And as to the link ocgw posted: What about the supposed removal, in future, of the ability of BD standalones to play BDMV from BDR/RE discs? Mind you, the link is two years old. And BD-R 3.0 discs, never heard of such things.

[kurkosdr]

Other than the physical properties of a commercial BD-ROM disc, AACS, and the ability to create menus what is the difference between BDMV and BDAV?

More accurately when you"back-up" BD-ROM to "movie only" removing AACS it is BDAV w/ ac3 sound

http://www.campaignhd.com/807_BDR_Playback.html

"BDAV is apparently a fairly simple, stripped down "model" for recording video on a Bluray disc. Think of it as a videotape. You put a simple A/V file on the disc in a BDAV folder, and the player plays it when it is inserted. You have very little flexibility with the BDAV structure."

You 've pretty much nailed it. This is why I have my worries.

If some standalones support only BDAV structures on BD-Rs (= a stripped down version of BDMV, with only very basic menus), then making a full backup of a movie, or even making a home movie with elaborate menus, PiP and such (which is a thing I personally would like to do) and playing it on such a standalone player is impossible.

So, which players support BDMV structures on BD-R's? Probably Samsung comes to mind, as their players are one of the few "no silly restricitions" kind of players. Stay away from Sony. If their DVD recorders are full of stupid restrictions, I can't imagine what their blurays will be like.

It would be nice if we had a complete list. Now I am basically guessing.

PS: The "BD-R 3.0" is mostly revisions done to the physical media. The addition of the "Low-to-high" type of BD-Rs comes to mind, plus a couple of new standards to support the new recording speeds. Similar revisions were done to the DVD+R standard, for example, with the addition of DL and other stuff.

[ocgw]

Other than the physical properties of a commercial BD-ROM disc, AACS, and the ability to create menus what is the difference between BDMV and BDAV?

More accurately when you"back-up" BD-ROM to "movie only" removing AACS it is BDAV w/ ac3 sound

http://www.campaignhd.com/807_BDR_Playback.html

"BDAV is apparently a fairly simple, stripped down "model" for recording video on a Bluray disc. Think of it as a videotape. You put a simple A/V file on the disc in a BDAV folder, and the player plays it when it is inserted. You have very little flexibility with the BDAV structure."

You 've pretty much nailed it. This is why I have my worries.

If some standalones support only BDAV structures on BD-Rs (= a stripped down version of BDMV, with only very basic menus), then making a full backup of a movie, or even making a home movie with elaborate menus, PiP and such (which is a thing I personally would like to do) and playing it on such a standalone player is impossible.

So, which players support BDMV structures on BD-R's? Probably Samsung comes to mind, as they their players are one of the few "no silly restricitions" kind of players. Stay away from Sony. If their DVD recorders are full of stupid restrictions, I can't imagine what their blurays will be like.

It would be nice if we had a complete list. Now I am basically guessing.

PS: The "BD-R 3.0" is mostly revisions done to the physical media. The addition of the "Low-to-high" type of BD-Rs comes to mind, plus a couple of new standards to support the new recording speeds. Similar revisions were done to the DVD+R standard, for example, with the addition of DL and other stuff.

There was a list of the standalones @ the Slysoft forums ( http://forum.slysoft.com/ ) of players that will play full backups w/ menus, I looked briefly but could not find it, ask your question there and I am sure it will be answered swiftly

ocgw

peace

[fritzi93]

It would be nice if we had a complete list. Now I am basically guessing.

Have a look at this Doom9 thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=144674&highlight=rebuilder

The OP starts the thread with this:

"I have not included BD25 support in this post because it appears that the majority of players will play a BD-R fully with menus etc without any problems.
If you have a player that won't - Please post the details."

If you read the entire thread, you may find some useful information, i.e. players that will NOT play BDMV on BDR/RE. I'll have to re-read it as I don't remember. :P

And this thread:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146339

I should think that a standalone which will play BD 5/9 will also play BD25.

Actually, it seems that Sony standalones fare quite well, and the Samsungs are hit-and-miss. I like my Sony BD-S360 so well I got a second one. It's not at all picky.