What the hell is Warner doing to their Archive DVDRs?

[Sephiroth666]

Has anyone else tried putting one of those into a PC DVD drive? It's not even readable. Plays fine on my PS3 though.

[Bjs]

Chances its something to do with the disc itself are very slim to none but a small scratch near the boot sector can cause problems ... the ps3 is able to read the disc which suggests the reading units on the computer either need firmware updates or replacement

[Sephiroth666]

Bull. It's a brand new disc and the drive works fine for anything else.

[Bjs]

Update the firmware and try again ... it is not bull it is good advice

Just because a drive is brand new in box dose not mean it will work as expected by the end user ... even they require firmware to be updated to cure common issues.

A one in ten thousand chances that there was an issue with disc production ... similar to the starwars trilogy set which many complained about ... but as your ps3 can read it ... it suggests other wise

Either that or its a BD and not DVD ... check

[johns0]

Also can be the dvd drive is a crappy reader.

[orsetto]

The Warner Archive distribution system, along with similar schemes pending from other studios and pending self-service kiosks, use a newer, modified DVD encryption method that was hacked around and munged for years before Warner finally said "screw it" and took the plunge into "burn on demand" distribution for its archives.

The problem was getting CSS onto a burnable disc: the recordable DVD spec forbids it so most DVD players and readers would reject or not recognize a DVD-R with CSS encoding. In a way, the studios were hoist by their own petard: they insisted the DVD-R spec exclude any possibility of CSS encoding, thinking this would cut down on piracy options, but it came back to bite them when they finally decided burn-on-demand might be a lucrative way to market their slow-moving back catalog titles. For the last five years the studios have done endless tinkering in tandem with suppliers like Sonic Solutions, hoping to conjure a back door way to encode CSS on burnable DVDs that would let them be recognized in existing playback hardware. They declared victory with the introduction of the Warner Archives system, but it isn't really 100% compatible, especially for PC or laptop playback. Drives and software decoders for the PC are extra-sensitive to protection schemes, the Warner mods that skate by on a forgiving dedicated dvd player may not fly with your existing reader and/or DVD software player.

Look into updating your PC player software, and/or try another reader in your PC. I haven't been able to determine which burner mfr won the contract for studio "burn on demand" services, if indeed there is such an exclusive arrangement (the details have changed so many times I lost track). If so I would think using the same brand reader in our PCs would up the odds of compatibility.

[SHS]

Is this a New Releases Movie? or did you stick in Bluray Disc in DVD drive that not going to work.
If it Play fine in something else chanes are you DVD rom may need replacing to something a lot newer even with firmware update that my not alway help.
Replace them ever few year heck there so cheap.
The biggest problem is newer ever changing modified DVD encryption method and older drives have hard time with newer disc becuases of laser beam focus and lens position which get out of wack over time.

[fritzi93]

Very interesting, orsetto. Thanks for that.

[orsetto]

I just remembered a few more details: I think the studio "burn on demand" CSS workaround ended up involving a new type of modified DVD-R media and a new burner modification to go along with it. Reading these Warner Archive-type DVDs in a PC instead of a set top DVD player might require getting a similar burner for your PC. Again I'm fuzzy on the specifics, they kept changing their press releases minute to minute, but I believe quite a few burner models released in the last year have these modifications. The plan was to allow consumers to buy the special blank discs, which could be used with the new burners to make hard-copy DVDs of protected downloadable studio content. I haven't read anything on that point for a few months now, maybe its a lower priority than it used to be.

[lordsmurf]

DVD-R (General) prewrites to the disc at manufacturing to disallow CSS and other data in that sector. I've never looked into it, but I would assume special non-written DVD-R in special drives would allow for it.

The other issue is Warner might simply be using garbage quality blank media.

Crappy reader is another idea.

[bearcor]

It says in the FAQ on the warner archive website, that they will work only in "play only" devices though they "may" play in some pc's and that if the disc will not play in your pc please play in a dvd player. It further states that they will not play in a dvd recorder either, and you can't get around it by purchasing the digital download version as the DRM will allow it to play only on the pc that you used to purchase it, even when you pay the full "BUY" price. It says you can burn it to dvd for storage purposes but it will still only play on the aforementioned pc.

the question is will it play in a dvd rom drive ? or will the cd-rw will prevent it from playing, Since the price is so high it seems really high handed. I was used to paying 38$ for a six movie collection of classic titles but paying 19 to 25 dollars for a 70 minute movie really hurts. It is the only way you are ever going to see some of these films and they clearly know it. I think it is really cheesy I bet they are really proud of themselves

[mazinz]

I have several Warner archive titles and all of them play fine and can be read easily with no issues by my pc drives (as well as my homedecks). In fact this goes for several other people I know who have purhased them as well (not the download versions WB sometimes offers, but the real send you the disc in a mail editions)

[jagabo]

It is the only way you are ever going to see some of these films

Don't be silly. They'll be available via Usenet and P2P apps the minute the first one is sold. Probably even before then from some insider link.

[Vidd]

These discs are similar to the Amazon Video On Demand discs (Verbatim DVD-R MKM).

The CSS protection for burnable discs technology is used. Therefore a drive with burn capabilities can't be used to read the discs, a standard read only DVD drive is needed.

[ron spencer]

sounds completely stupid

[mazinz]

These discs are similar to the Amazon Video On Demand discs (Verbatim DVD-R MKM).

The CSS protection for burnable discs technology is used. Therefore a drive with burn capabilities can't be used to read the discs, a standard read only DVD drive is needed.

That is not true at all. Both of my PC burners can read and play them fine, as well as my regular AND recorder homedeck machines. In all honesty those with issues should maybe try another type of dvd drive, software or codec package. It seems more of an issue with your pc and not so much "because of something WB did"

[orsetto]

Those with no problems playing the WB Archive type of DVDs should not assume everyone else is crazy or stupid: the plain fact is these "studio-burned" custom discs are a new sort of non-standard variation that runs totally against the DVD-R spec. CSS and DVD-R were not compatible until WB embarked on this marketing system a few months ago. Some older PC drives, standalone recorders and players may have difficulty recognizing them as a valid DVD- but some will, and you might get lucky. If not, get a new DVD player or PC drive. This custom burn-on-demand system the studios are just now offering has been in the works for years, so assorted bits and pieces of hardware were quietly updated to be compatible ahead of time. If you bought a recorder or PC drive within the last year or so, its probably already compatible with this new type of "Hollywood" DVD-R media.

As far as these back catalog titles "appearing immediately on file sharing networks", spare me the piracy advocacy. Its inevitable, yes, but that doesn't make it a great idea. These are limited-interest titles almost no one will bother to seek out and buy, given the small demand its nice the studios are at least trying to make it available instead of keeping them buried forever. Is $19.95 for a 70-minute oldie "extortion"? Not if you're a cult movie fan: crappy VHS bootlegs used to go for at least that much, and again there is no economy of scale to drop the prices. The studios still have to digitize the film, burn the disc, print the box insert and ship it to you: if anything this is way more expensive to do as piece-work. Its not like when Pixar mass-produces millions of copies of their latest hit at $24.95 and then it gets dropped within a month to $9.95 at Best Buy because of leftover stock and the actual production cost of each individual DVD being nil. Different market entirely. If everyone interested starts pirating the crap out of this obscure stuff and dumping it on file-sharing networks, the net result will be the studios not continuing to offer them, and they will be lost again. Not smart in the long run. You wanna file-share something like "2012", have a blast: it will make its money back from three weekends in theaters and legit DVD sales. But an obscure "archive" title from the 1930s? If its shared as soon as the first person gets the first custom disc, it kills all motivation for the studio to bother. Its not a question of "supporting" the studio morally or financially, its a question of making it worthwhile for them to offer these titles at all.

BTW the studios to use TCM as a marketing tool to drum up business for their burn-to-order program. If you can't afford to buy the custom DVDs, keep an eye on the TCM schedule and just record the movies off cable as they appear. Won't be as good quality as the custom DVD or a really well-encoded pirate copy of the DVD, but close enough and easier than screwing around with the torrents.

[Vidd]

That is not true at all. Both of my PC burners can read and play them fine, as well as my regular AND recorder homedeck machines. In all honesty those with issues should maybe try another type of dvd drive, software or codec package. It seems more of an issue with your pc and not so much "because of something WB did"

Most burners will not recognize the discs. I personally have 4 burners (vintage to modern) and not one can read the discs, yet all the read only drives I have can recognize the discs.

WB puts this on the box:
"This disc is expected to play back in DVD video 'play only' devices, and may not play back in other DVD devices, including recorders and PC drives."

[jagabo]

As far as these back catalog titles "appearing immediately on file sharing networks", spare me the piracy advocacy.

The point of my post was that the copy protection, as usual, only inconveniences the legit customers, not the pirates. Making it worse than useless.

[VegasBud]

As orsetto has detailed, these kind of "burn on demand" disks use CSS-MR (Content Scramble System - Managed Recording), which is a completely different specification than the one for CSS. Consequently, special burners, special dvd-r disks, and special burning software are required.

Only "DVD Download" certified drives can read them, due to the differences between the two standards. If you have a certified drive, it should work. If your drive isn't certified for CSS-MR, you're likely to have problems.

The last I heard, only Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim were making the special disks, so it seems likely they are better than average quality, at least as far as the disks themselves are concerned. I have no idea how much effort they're putting into preparing the material destined to be burned to the disks.

[mazinz]

That is not true at all. Both of my PC burners can read and play them fine, as well as my regular AND recorder homedeck machines. In all honesty those with issues should maybe try another type of dvd drive, software or codec package. It seems more of an issue with your pc and not so much "because of something WB did"

Most burners will not recognize the discs. I personally have 4 burners (vintage to modern) and not one can read the discs, yet all the read only drives I have can recognize the discs.

WB puts this on the box:
"This disc is expected to play back in DVD video 'play only' devices, and may not play back in other DVD devices, including recorders and PC drives."

my point was that you should try other resources if you can, such as a friends pc and see if the problem still occurs. All of my stuff (roms/burners, homedecks and homedeck recorders) are a few years old, but I have no problems with them at all. Try other software (not sure what you have done already), see if any of that can at least recognize the disc in your drive

ORSETTO,
I agree with you on the piracy issue. It was a godsend for WB to get some of these titles out there, officially so I can retire those old bootleg 20 plus year old tv recordings (such as the Bermuda depths). However as I mentioned to Vidd, my stuff is a bit older and has no problems with the WB disc.

TCM is also selling WB archive titles as well (though not all of them) for those in Canada who get screwed over by this (wb archive is US only)

[aedipuss]

it's always a dance between the owners and the copiers. i'm sure anydvd, dvdfab, or someone will "catch-on" to this problem and create a workaround. nintendo just pulled a fast one on chipped wii users like this, they started writing a code to the bca area of their dvds like the old circuit city divx discs. no dvd burner can write there as it takes a special yag laser.

[Sephiroth666]

My 3rd archive disc is set to arrive today, so I decided to look into this again. It's definitely the drives. I remember trying both my towers at the time and neither the Samsung in one nor the LiteOn in the other read them. The Pioneer in my laptop does though. I forgot about that one. All tested drives were DVDRW.

Edit: Dammit! It backed up one but not the other. DVD Decryptor started coming up with read errors at 40% despite the fact my PS3 played it fine. I want a backup of Captain Sinbad. I've been waiting to own that DVD forever! Incidently, AnyDVD doesn't want to rip either disc itself. I actually had to use DVD Decryptor.

WOAH! It looks like Captain Sindbad is burnt differently than Freebie and the Bean was. I can see some odd authoring lines on the data side of the disc. Not scratches. Solid circles around, kind of like those enhanced CDs from before, but this would probably be right around where those read errors are happening. Anyone have any ideas here? Freebie and the Bean was a perfectly uniform looking burn.

[sambat]

This WB deal sounds like it was dreamed up by a government committee.
A marketing tactic that is designed to enrage the casual user (won't play on a PC burner) has failure designed in from the start.
Sorry for the cult/obscure film fan.

[mazinz]

My 3rd archive disc is set to arrive today, so I decided to look into this again. It's definitely the drives. I remember trying both my towers at the time and neither the Samsung in one nor the LiteOn in the other read them. The Pioneer in my laptop does though. I forgot about that one. All tested drives were DVDRW.

Edit: Dammit! It backed up one but not the other. DVD Decryptor started coming up with read errors at 40% despite the fact my PS3 played it fine. I want a backup of Captain Sinbad. I've been waiting to own that DVD forever! Incidently, AnyDVD doesn't want to rip either disc itself. I actually had to use DVD Decryptor.

WOAH! It looks like Captain Sindbad is burnt differently than Freebie and the Bean was. I can see some odd authoring lines on the data side of the disc. Not scratches. Solid circles around, kind of like those enhanced CDs from before, but this would probably be right around where those read errors are happening. Anyone have any ideas here? Freebie and the Bean was a perfectly uniform looking burn.

I have no idea why you are having such problems with this. I have two liteon drives (one about 3 years old and the other a bit older than that). I never had any problem reading, copying or playing the WB archive discs in them at all. Did you try dvd fab decryptor?

It could also be that your other drives lasers are dirty. Try a laser lens cleaner and see if that helps

[Sephiroth666]

Ah. That one disc was definitely bad when I received it. Too late to return it though. The one I just bought better be done right. Idiots are probably burning them too fast or using shit media.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Edit

[Moontrash]

they started writing a code to the bca area of their dvds like the old circuit city divx discs.

lol i remember those discs...thats been a while back

[packard]

I just got the Warner Brothers 6 disc set "Big band, Jazz and swing short subject collection" with the non-standard DVD download format. It is dead in the water on my two year old Dell Inspiron computer system (with all dvd firmware updates installed). It doesn't play or even show up in the system. It even locks the pc up for an eternity. Geesh, what insanity by Warner to put stuff out in incompatible format.

[16mmJunkie]

I always make sure of what I'm buying before forking over $$$. That way I have no one to blame but
me if I buy a bunch of S!#@*&?&%$!