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Right now I get my video from my cable box (Bell ExpressVu), so we're talking about LIVE TV here and not Tivolike delays. This is the most important detail. I absolutely do not want any additional delays in seeing channel flipping at all, as you get with something like tivo. This is absolutely a deal breaker for me.
My current setup involves my satelite box, connected to an DVD-HDD, which then connects to the television. When I am watching regular television it streams through to the television with zero delay, which is great for channel surfing as there is absolutely no delay at all. It goes straight from the sat box to the television basically. Anything I do absolutely MUST retain this functionality, please don't tell me it can't be done as I am ALREADY doing this.
What I would like to do, is add a personal computer to the setup. I want to be able to connect my computer, to the television somewhere in this configuration so that I can use my computer from my television, and watch my stored media files on my television when I want to do so. What is important to me, is that connecting the computer to my current setup not introduce any delays in the streaming of the live television.
Basically I'd want to watch my Sat box television as I do now, and when I want to work on my computer, or watch a movie stored on my hard drive, I can press Aux or something, and start computing or watching my movies from the computer that way, and when I want to go back to live television I can do that easily.
It would also be nice, if I could optionally have the computer record the live television stream without interfering the live stream with a tape delay (Like PVR's do, which is annoying as heck). My current setup includes a Panasonic DVD-HDD as I mentioned above, and it does exactly this. I can watch live television off the sat box, and as I watch I can just hit record on the DVD-HDD remote control and it records the stream passively. That is to say, it does NOT introduce a delay of any kind.
So to sum it up, I want build an HTPC to act as a DVD-HDD + a computer and NOT as a PVR + a computer.
I'd appreciate any replies at all with suggestions for Computer Tuner cards that do this, and advice on how to attach the devices or configuration. If you are not aware of any such devices please do not reply with comments claiming none do this, as mentioned I already use a device that does it, so they do exist. Any helpful suggestions for hardware would be greatly appreciated.
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Good luck with that. I don't think there are any tuner cards that don't take at least a second to flip channels as it starts processing video. I think your only method of doing this is going to be through a splitter. I don't think an HTPC is the correct solution for the type of setup you're looking for.
FB-DIMM are the real cause of global warming -
Thanks for the response Rallynavvie;
The way I want to set it up is similar to a DVD-HDD (A DVR) and not a PVR. The difference is that a DVD-HDD does not "process" the live stream, encoding and decoding it while you watch live tv. It splits the signal (I am assuming) internally so that when you press record, it records the live stream you are watching, and when you press play, to play a recorded movie clip off the hard disk it plays that instead of the live stream. You can for example record the live stream and watch it on a time shift delay.
A PVR on the other hand encodes/decodes the whole stream. There is no live split, it all gets processed, causing the delay. I do NOT want this.
I know this can be done because I already do it using a Panasonic DVD-HDD. I just want to connect my computer to the setup so I can use the computer on my TV, and watch movies off my computer. If you have any other ideas, please don't hesitate to let me know. -
DVD-HDD is a DVD recorder?
Explain how you are connecting the computer into this setup?What I would like to do, is add a personal computer to the setup. I want to be able to connect my computer, to the television somewhere in this configuration so that I can use my computer from my television, and watch my stored media files on my television when I want to do so. What is important to me, is that connecting the computer to my current setup not introduce any delays in the streaming of the live television.
If the DVD-HDD is a DVD recorder wouldn't you connect to that?
Or are you trying to watch recorded video on the TV and live on the computer?
What capture device is on the computer?Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Hey EdDv;
DVD-HDD is a DVD recorder which also has a hard disk drive. My current setup is Satelite dish --> Satelite Box --> DVD-HDD recorder (obviously using some sort of tuner card) --> Television
I want to add my computer to this setup so that I can use Windows and the internet, and watch my archived movies on my television. What's important is that the TV Tuner on the computer should not cause any delay when channel surfing (no interference with the live tv).
The computer will be new, it does not have a capture device yet. I'm asking for advice on which card to buy and how to connect it into this setup so that it will not interfere with the live television viewing.
Basically, I want to be able to watch my live tv, and when I feel like going on my computer I want to be able to press a button (on my remote I assume), which shows the computer desktop on my television, and from there I could use Windows Media center to watch my media (or connect to the internet, check my email etc..) And when I want to go back to LIVE television again I could do that.
What's important is that I do not want a tivo-like setup. Tivo basically hijacks the television signal, and processes it through a tuner card, and feeds it back to the television through a timed delay (from 1 to several seconds). That sort of thing, obviously would make channel surfing a complete nightmare.
The way I'm set up right now (with no computer connected), I can watch live television (no delay when channel surfing). I use my satelite dish remote to change the channels and so on. When I want to record the live signal I press "Record" on my DVD-HDD remote and it begins recording the live television signal passively, that is to say, it does not cause any delay at all in the signal. When I want to then view what it's recording I can press "Play" on the DVD-HDD remote and it will begin playing the recorded media, which is great for time shifting and so called "pausing live television". I want to keep this same functionality, but simply add a desktop computer into the setup.
Any ideas on setup or capture device that would do this? -
Pointless, needless, purposeless, senseless, unattainable, unprovable and silly cannot begin to describe a request of this nature. That's like calling and asking the Cadillac dealer which of their car's power seats recline the fastest of all of the present and past models it has sold in the past 10 years.Originally Posted by mabus
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I really would appreciate it if people with these kinds of comments could show some restraint. I am trying to get help with a problem, and comments of these kinds really don't help.
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No. We've heard this ridiculous drabble before....almost a year to the day.Originally Posted by mabus
Nov 24, 2008
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic360016.html#1911046Originally Posted by mabus
Now tell me this is NOT some sort of joke. -
Just split the signal out of the satellite tuner. Send one to the computer the other to the DVD recorder. Watch live TV via the DVD recorder.
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Hech,
About a year or so ago I posted on here looking for a way of hooking up my PC or to purchase a device that would allow me to play media movies off my computer to my television, and so I posted on here asking for advice. I had bought a Tivo for this purpose, but didn't like the delay I experianced in watching live television so I returned it and posted here asking for suggestions. It was mostly met with replies such as "can't be done". I eventually found numerous devices that to do it, and settled on one. The device I ended up buying was perfect for my intended needs at the time, it was the Neuros OSD and did everything I asked for in that post, and had zero delay when watching live television, just as I was looking for. http://www.neurostechnology.com/products
As you may have noticed, in this thread (a year later). I am looking for something that does something a little different. I not only want to just play movies off my computer, but would like to build my own computer and hook it up, complete with windows desktop, email and so on. The motivation for this is that I want to build a backup server for my computer. I figure if I am going to build a backup server, I may as well have access to the desktop, and if I do all that I may as well just hook up a tv tuner (just need to find the right one) and replace the neuros. I figure it would be fun to not only watch movies off my computer on the television, but to be able to access the desktop to while i'm at it.
If you can help finding one, that would be great, otherwise, I hope I've answered your questions. I really did not post here to fight with you, nor to listen to a bunch of people tell me it can't be done (when I am already doing it). I appreciate that many people are not aware this can be done, and simply posting "it can't be done" is of no help at all. Please understand I do not want to be rude in any way, I appreciate that you think you are helping me, by telling me that it can't be done, because you think it can't. What you need to understand is that I have two devices here that already do it, but of course I can't connect to my windows desktop through them. That's really all i'm looking help for. -
Ok this is helpful. Can you be a bit more expansive on this?Originally Posted by jagabo
If I understand you correctly (and please correct me if I am mistaken), I would need some sort of splitter (an example of what I'd need would be appreciated), and this would allow me to watch my live tv, and then switch to the computer by hitting the aux button? Am I correct? -
To be honest I think it is asking a bit much too, but we get some many more bizarre questions here.
What you're really describing is not a TV tuner as the tuning should be done off the PC for fastest TV response times. What you'd probably want is simply a capture card. Use the tuner on the TV or cable box to surf channels and then trigger the capture seperately when you find the channel you want to record. This would require some sort of output from your TV that a capture card could support (meaning unencrypted and HD/SD per the card's supported definition). This would obviously be problematic with premium channels but you're going to have that problem either way you go. At any rate it is not going to be a clean, integrated solution. If there is a clean, integrated solution out there that I've not heard of then I'm guessing it's going to be pricey.FB-DIMM are the real cause of global warming -
Hey Rallynavvi;
Agreed i'm asking for a lot from my television
The fact that it is not a TV Tuner that I am looking for, but rather a capture card was very helpful, thanks for that. What you described about triggering the "Capture card" on a seperate box when I want to record the stream sounds right. That is in fact what I do with my DVD-HDD device now I think, so I think you're on the right track here. Agreed on the analog, unencrypted signal as well, that makes sense. It would be coming out of my Satelite box though (instead of the television) I assume (please correct me if I am mistaken). I'd either need to connect my pc to the sat box or the HDD-DVD recorder I guess.
All I really want to do, is watch my tv as I watch it now, and be able to see my desktop by pressing a button, it shouldn't be that difficult. Lots of people hook up their pc's to their televisions, it's just that the television stream goes to the tv tuner when they watch live tv, which I assume is great for watching the tv on their desktop. I don't really need to do that. I want to watch live tv, and then go to my computer desktop seperately. If I could watch my tv on the desktop too that's a bonus, but not really nessecary. -
I hadn't noticed.Originally Posted by mabus
2008
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic360016.html#1911061Originally Posted by mabus
2009
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic375939.html#2025610Originally Posted by mabus
2009
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic375939.html#2025836Originally Posted by mabus
Originally Posted by mabus
I know something that can do it....guaranteed.
Originally Posted by mabus -
Hech,
Initially you misunderstood. You assumed that I was simply reposting with the exact same problem a year later, assuming I had been looking for a year, and still had not found the solution, and assumed this was evidence there was none.
As I've explained in greater detail than I should have needed to, The problem I posted about a year ago, related to watching movies off my computer, on my television, without a tivo-like delay in the live stream. As i've also clarified, I am already doing this, it works, it exists, so it can be done. All I want to do in this new post (a year later), is add in a way to access my windows desktop on my television, again without interfering with the live stream. Thank you for your advice that the panasonic does this, but it actually doesn't, it does not allow me to access the windows desktop (which is what i am asking for help in doing).
Several people have replied with helpful advice, which look promising. I would please ask that you please stop posting that it can't be done, or reposting my old posts in this manner. It's very distracting (not to mention discouraging, and potentially confusing for people who may be reading this thread and would be willing to help, only to be confused by all the side-line chatter).
Just to be extra crystal clear. I am looking for a way to be able to access my windows desktop from my television when I wish to do so, without causing a delay in the live television, that is the technical hurdle I am seeking to overcome. Any help would be greatly appreciated. -
You were....and still are...looking for a computer card that has "no delay" when changing channels....a feature that is 99.999% of the time NEVER even considered by rational people....and a feature that is 100% unprovable by anyone.
Does that about sum it up? -
I'm still confused by the requirement. Tell us your TV model.
Sat Tuner 1 -> DVD recorder ----------------> TV (component input)
Sat Tuner 2 -> PC (capture+display card) --> TV (VGA or HDMI input)
<- PC IR control for channel changing
Where in the system are you seeing delay? Is it the TV switching from component to VGA?Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Hech,Originally Posted by hech54
I understand you feel what I am asking is impossible. I understand you feel I am irrational. Can you please move on now? -
EdDV,
I do not have a PC attached to my television. I am not experiencing any delays yet. I want to add a computer to my current setup, and want to make sure the computer will not interfere with my live television.
I currently have a panasonic DVD-HDD recorder and a Neuros OSD hooked up to my television and satelite signal. These allow me to watch live television with no streaming delay, and to record the signal so I can later burn them to DVD (panasonic) and to watch movies off my computer (neuros osd). Neither interferes with the live signal.
What I want to do is add a computer to the setup so that when I wish to do so, I can switch away from the live television, to my computer desktop. Not sure why everyone seems to be so confused about this, it's a fairly simple idea really. I just want to be able to access my computer from my television, and have the computer not delay the satelite signal when I am NOT using the computer. That's all I'm trying to do. -
So why would the computer interfere with the sat signal to TV input A if you switch to the computer on TV input B ? There is something you aren't telling us. What do you mean "add the computer to the setup"? If your TV lacks an input B, add an external switch.Originally Posted by mabusRecommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Hey EdDV, it may not. I know that I bought a Tivo about a year ago (to play movies off my computer, before buying the Neuros OSD), and it totally screwed up my live television. It sort of hijacked the satelite signal and delayed it by a second or two. I ended up having to return it because of that, and is the cause of my concern.Originally Posted by edDV
I've basically got all the computer parts in my shopping basket off of a couple of online computer parts stores, ready to ship. The only thing I need to pick out is a capture card or tv tuner, before doing that I wanted to ask for advice in here for which type I needed to buy so as to make 100% sure that any that I bought did not cause me similar problems as the Tivo had done.
If I connected my computer to the input b on my television (and yes it does have an input b), How would that work exactly when switching back and forthe from the computer and the television? Would the computer be on aux or something? Some info there would be very interesting.
When you refered to an external switcher, what is that exactly? Does that mean I could set up a device with a switch that I could flick to go from the computer to the television?
Think we're getting somewhere here
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Please ID your TV. Is it a classic analog model?
How is it connected to the DVD recorder? Analog component?
For computer connection, use HDMI/DVI-D/VGA
or lacking that S-Video
or lacking that composite
As for capture, there are no computer tuners for satellite. You need an external tuner and will connect S-Video or composite to the capture card. If you want to use MCE, you will need a capture card with hardware compression and IR control for the tuner (e.g. a PVR-150 MCE). You should order a second sat tuner for the PC to use plus the antenna distribution box.
You haven't mentioned over the air local tuning. The computer capture card can capture the OTA as well off a separate TV antenna.Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
If your current setup is:
Satelite dish --> Satelite Box --> DVD-HDD recorder --> Television
You can get a distribution amp to split the signal.
http://www.amazon.com/AV-400SV-Prograde-Distribution-Amplifier/dp/B0009QZPO6
Run on output of the distribution amp through the computer, one directly to the TV. So your setup would look like:
Satelite dish --> Satelite Box --> Dist Amp... then
Dist Amp output A --> DVD-HDD recorder --> Television input A
Dist Amp output B --> computer capture card --> computer graphics card --> Television input B
You then watch the live input by switching the television to input A, watch the computer by switching to input B. This requires that your computer have an output that your TV accepts. You can use this type of setup with HDMI because HDCP protected HDMI (everything out of a sat box) won't allow signal splitting like this. S-video, composite, and cable coax will work this way.
Your satellite box may have multiple outputs already. If so, you don't need an external splitter. Just route one of the outputs to the computer, the other to the TV.
You might even get away with simple y adapter cables instead of a distribution amp. A further advantage to this type of setup is that your computer doesn't have to be on to watch live TV.
There are a few computer capture devices with passthroughs. The Hauppauge HD PVR, for example. With that you would allow to use the capture card as the splitter.
Satelite dish --> Satelite Box --> HD PVR (passthrough) --> Television input A
HD PVR (USB output) --> computer graphics card --> Television input B
Like the earlier setup, this requires you to switch inputs on the TV and the graphics card must have output to match your TV's input. Again, the computer doesn't have to be on to watch live TV. The HD PVR has to be left power on though.
Lastly, there are capture cards with very near realtime (only about one frame delay) display on the computer. These are usually dumb devices (no hardware MPEG compression). You can't really use your computer for anything while capturing with this type of card. Look at sub US$30 cards that capture uncompressed video. -
split the signal from out of BEV reciever (2 to 1 splitter) 1 end to tv 1 end to pc thru tv card... tv will show live tv relatively speaking (sat signals are naturally 6 second delayed)... pc will be delayed by a few seconds & u can record thru pc the channel that u r watching, is this what u want? edtv there are direct sat tuner cards, twinhan 1020a is 1 of many
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No sorry. Thanks for the response but I do not want the PC to additionally delay the signal.Originally Posted by the_man_one
It's a JVC, and I checked last night, and it does appear to have some sort of tuner in it. There is a menu option to set the tuner to air or cable. It's connected to the DVD recorder through I think it's called a composite cable? Basically a wire with three plugs, one red, one yellow and one white. It also has an S-Video plug.Originally Posted by edDV
Looking at the back panel there is even a set of holes for the blue/green plus as well. Here is the web page for the exact model I have http://support.jvc.com/consumer/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027585&pathId=74&page=2&archive=true
That is definately an option. I was thinking of connecting the PC to the DVD-HDD recorder instead though. The sat box already descrambles the signal and sends it out to the DVD recorder, and I could just connect the computer to that, was my thought.Originally Posted by edDV
Don't really need that. There are no over the air channels which are not available via the satelite dish anyway.Originally Posted by edDV
Ok that's something to look atOriginally Posted by jagabo
This is also interesting, but my computers are always on so that is not a huuuuuuuge problem. Still another option.Originally Posted by jagabo
This definately caught my attention. I called Hauppage this morning to look into this. The person at the sales department was adament that they don't have anything that would send a signal from the PC to the television. I thought perhaps it was just the wrong salesperson so I tried a second time and got another firm "none of our devices do that". So i'm a little unsure about this option now. It does seem like the prefered option, but they were pretty adamanent that it doesn't send any signal to the television.Originally Posted by jagabo
That said, this seems like the vastly prefered option as far as I can tell. On their website for the HD PVR however, they have an animation which shows how it connects. The way the animation shows it, it connects like the following; Satelite box -> HD PVR -> Computer -> Television INSTEAD of Satelite box -> HD PVR -> Television + Computer HD PVR connection to and from both as I'd hoped.
If that's the case then there's probably no real use for the HD PVR box to begin with as I still need the computer between the sat box and the television. In that setup the question is still whether the computer causes the delay or not anyway.
I called Tiger Direct (Tigerdirect.com) with this in mind. The sales person I was talking to was fairly confusing but he ultimately led me to this device --> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4486468&sku=E145-9404Originally Posted by jagabo
The card, an EVGA GeForce 9400 GT with Dual Link DVI, HDCP capable and HDTV Out, he said, connects the computer to the television so that I would be able to view my desktop on the television with it. For the satelite signal I would need a capture card on top of this. If the Capture card had a passthrough tuner then there should not be a delay.
How does this look to you? -
You can improve the picture on that TV using the Green/Red/Blue analog component cable from the DVD Recorder to the TV. DVD playback will be most improved. This frees the S-Video input for computer connection. You will also need to connect audio.Originally Posted by mabus
Your computer will need two cards. One for display, another for capture.
The NVidia cards will connect to your computer monitor and by S-Video to your TV. They will also output component analog or VGA or DVI-D to a future HDTV.
The choice of display card (e.g. GeForce 9400GT or higher) depends mainly on your gaming needs.
The capture card can be very simple if you aren't capturing off air. It does need hardware MPeg compression to work with MCE but MCE will need to control the sat tuner to make this option viable. You can't have both the DVD recorder and MCE controlling the same sat tuner at the same time.Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
Now assuming you have the computer connected to the TV at the output and to the DVD player or Sat box at the input, we can start to understand your "delay" concerns. You will see a frame or two delay watching live video through the computer loop vs directly off the DVD recorder. I don't see why this is a problem because you would normally only watch recorded video from the PC. What am I missing?
Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
http://www.kiva.org/about -
The HD PVR has an analog passthrough. Whatever comes in goes out with no delay (ok, maybe 10 nanoseconds to get through an OP amp). I know this because I have one and have tested it. The HD PVR will not take video from the computer and route it to the TV. Only video from the analog input can go to the analog output.Originally Posted by mabus
In the situation I described you aren't using the computer to watch live TV -- you're watching the undelayed passthrough signal from the HD PVR. When you are capturing video what you see on the computer screen is delayed (all hardware compression devices do this because they use read-ahead buffering to keep the video from becoming jerky when the OS decides it has to go something else for a while). While capturing, if you are using a graphics card with TV output then the input on the TV that's displaying that output will be delayed. But the passthrough signal, going to a different input on the TV, is not delayed.
The problem with the Hauppauge HD PVR is that it produces h.264/AAC/AC3 TS, M2TS, or MP4 files. Not all software can handle this well (playback and editing). -
A frame or two is fine. That's faster than an eyeblinkOriginally Posted by edDV
For recorded video it's not a problem at all. I just want to be sure it does not ALSO delay the live television when I am watching live tv (as the Tivo does for example). The tivo, would delay the live video stream (including any channel input from the satelite remote) by several seconds, which frankly was maddening when watching unrecorded live television.
Ok that's not a problem for me at all. I can always just record the television stream with the DVD-HDD recorder and edit it there as it has a rudimentary editing interface. I can even then burn it to DVD and literally then rip the DVD from the computer, avoiding the need to capture the live video stream with the computer at all if needbe, so all of that is fine.Originally Posted by jagabo
If using the HD PVR would work that way, then that's probably my method of choice I think. -
Then you have no need for any PC capture device at all. Save yourself a few hundred bucks.Originally Posted by mabus
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