TMPEG SVCD audio sync problems, but VCD OK

[Juke]

I'm using the latest 'Pegasys' version of TMPeg and am having trouble getting an
SVCD (mpeg-2) file encoded which has the audio in sync. Strangely enough, when
I convert from the same source file into VCD format (mpeg-1), the audio is perfectly
in sync.

I'm trying to convert from an AVI in DivX 3, and have tried both the original MP-3
audio _and_ decompressed PCM audio (via decompress from the AVI2VCD package)

I've tried both CBR and VBR encoding, but neither produces SVCDs with synchronized audio.

I'm using MediaPlayer to verify the audio, as I've produced enough coasters
for a while.

Any ideas?

--Juke

[Juke]

Man, do I feel stupid. Trusting Microsoft software. Been in the
business long enough to know better than that.

Anyways, MediaPlayer gets out of sync while playing SVCDs.
Playing back via AsusDVD correctly has the audio in sync.

How embarassing.....


--Juke

[Xtreme]

Trust me your not the only one, there has been others i am sure that have done this as well. I know i have done that, then come to find out it is just WMP.

[REiREi]

MediaPlayer gets out of sync while playing SVCDs.
Playing back via AsusDVD correctly has the audio in sync.

That has nothing to do with microsoft.
It just means that you have other mpeg2 codecs install in your system and media player using that mpeg2 codec to playback the file.

When u playback with AsusDVD, it probably uses its own mpeg2 codec, hence it bypasses the "problematic codec", and ur in sync.

Known codecs to have A/V sync problems with mpeg2 files:
Ligos, Elecard....

[Juke]

Excellent. I didn't know that WMP didn't have it's own MPEG2 codec. I
will go looking around the windows multimedia control panel for a bit...

Thanks!

[Fred©]

Gee! Every time I captured a VCD AVI file and converted it to SVCD I had audio sync problem... always previewed it in Windows MP... then, I always deleted the file, thinking it was not compiled ok... Now guys you tell me it is a Windows MP problem!? So, I should preview my files on a diferent player....

But what player? Herosoft?
And what mpeg2 codec should I install in system?
By the way, does any one knows why my ATI AIW 128 pro captures realtime movies in MPEG format in windows 98 and only capture AVI files in windows 2000? there is no MPEG option in TV set ( I have dual boot system)...

Thanks,

[REiREi]

Just want to clarify some facts:

Windows Media Player will playback the supoorted formats (be it AVI or MPEG1 or MPEG2) as long as you have the codecs or filters installed.

Without these additional codecs/filters, it cannot play DivX or MPEG2.

Now comes the worst part of the game: say if u have installed PowerDVD, you have the Cyberlink MPEG codec, you can play MPEG2 (without much sync problems).
But then if you install another program/player that installs for example the Ligos MPEG codecs, the Ligos will become the DEFAULT filters/codecs, and WMP will play MPEG2 files with Ligos (which causes AV Desync!).

You cannot always see what codecs/filters you have installed by going to Control Panel | Multimedia. Most MPEG Filters are NOT listed there.

Best way to find out what codecs WMP is using to play your MPEG2 files is use, say MediaPLayer v6.4, load the mpeg, click on properties and you'll see which filters/codecs it is using as default.

I found out that Ligos MPEG filters or Elecard will result in some AV desync. (see link below)

Some players are very smart, mostly DVDplayers, that they would use their own filters when playing back MPEG, eg in the above case of Juke's, AsusDVD uses its own codec (which is in better sync) rather than using windows default filters/codecs (as WMP uses).

Furthermore:
Other MPEG Editing Programs, might use your default codecs/filters to do the editing, hence resulting many audio not in sync issues after the files are edited or re-encoded.


Last of all, IT IS NOT Media Player making the files not in sync, you do not need to go find another player.

You just have to unregister the problematic MPEG codecs/filters (or don't install them).


Note that this is what i found out from various readings on these boards.

I think the experts here should look into this problem and write a better guide/tutorial on this.

I found out this while reading the follwing thread:
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33583552.

Hope this helps.

[Fred©]

Thanks reirei,
I have VideoMach, Ulead DVD MovieFactory, M2-edit 3.0, Panasonic MPEG-1, TMPGEnc 2.51, MMC 7.1 and had Ligos Encoder 3.5... I removed the last one...

So, what is my default mpeg-2 codec now? mpeg2dec.dll? It seems I have downloaded it from vcdhelp.com and installed in windows directory...

And the second question I made before: why I cannot capture mpeg files using MMC in windows 2000, with directx 8.1 installed? (no service pack installed)

Thanks,

Fred©

[oberkfell]

Fred:

Find some place where you can download 7.5mmc it works a hell of alot better than 7.1. I have it listed under Morpheus or Bearshare. I have not had a problem since upgrading a couple of months ago.

[REiREi]

Fred,

U can see what codecs ur using to play mpeg2 by the mediaplayer6 properties | Advanced method above.

If it just lists Default DirectSound, MPEG Audio Decoder & Video Renderer, you'll be pretty alright, cos no signs of Ligos or Elecard.

It might be ok of it lists cyberlink SP Video decoder or Revisent.
ATI MMC will install Revisent filters. Some people said their MPEG2 playback too fast - because of the Revisent AUDIO filters, it's fixed by unregistering DSCineAudio.dll found in Program Files\Commin Files\Revisent Shared.

As long as MediaPlayer6.4 Properties Advance listed either
Default DirectSound, MPEG Audio Decoder & Video Renderer or Revisent Video or Cyberlink, it's alright. Just make sure it has no MPEG2Splitter or such.


I also took the advice from here to upgrade to MMC7.5.
It was a pain to get it working, cos it does have certain setup matters, but once i got it going, plus paying careful attention to my codecs/filters, my mpeg2 caps are pretty insync now.

I've also sussed out how to use M2editPro to edit MPEG2 without that av sync problem.

It takes a while to get to this point, but once sorted out, things are woring nearly 99% as they should be.

[Juke]

Thanks, REiREi. Looks like ULead Visual Studio 4.0 SE was
the culprit. It, of course, installed the Ligos codec.

Since I don't use the ULead software, I can just uninstall it.

However, do you have any hints for the rest of the poor bastards
out there on how un un-register something like this when there's
no shortcut or .bat file provided?


Thanks again!

[REiREi]

Yes ULead installs Ligos, and some Sonic Foundry stuff install ligos too.
M2edit installs Elecard...

The way i unregistered these .dll or .ax is that i have a register shell extension, so i can right-click on the files (when i find them) and select un-register... but that might be too advanced for many ppl here.

Easiest way is to goto AnalogX site and download DXman:
http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/audio/dxman.htm

It lists all the DirectX filters installed on your system, and you can check info/properties and then remove the problem ones.

I don't have anymore of that Ligos filter registered so i cannot tell u the exact entry name, but u can see the vender's name from the info button.

But Ligos file names are : Mpeg2Decoder.ax and Mpeg2Parser.ax


This is really sad. I think the heads here should do something, cos in the tutorials and Tools section here, that mpeg2codec is the Ligos one...
It may solve the problem of simply able to play mpeg2 files, but introduced all these audio sync problems on most people.
(I am not saying all people since, some ppl dun have sync issues with Ligos/Elecard depending on what softs/apps they use).

Also, I am not saying Ligos, Elecard codecs are bad, but in certain cases when dealing with captured files or re-encoding, their a/v sync is just too far off. Cyberlink/intervideo/revisent are slightly better but still not 100% garanteed sync...

Just remember the fact: if you want less a/v sync problems, your default mpeg codec should be the same as the ones that your capture card uses.
Then whe u edit or reencode, the program should use the same codecs, then u can minimise the sync issues. (but if your source are downloaded from somewhere, hardluck...)

I just wish some expert could do some tests with these filters using graph edit - or maybe write a program to select codecs + indicating the a/v sync offset when playing an mpeg file...

anyway too much said...

[zoeconner]

hey guy's

Im just woundering if this could be my problem. I been conv. with tmpge and when I play them back the audio is fine. But now I reformated my computer every avi,divx that I encode has a audio problem.So you guys are saying that if I burn these to a vcd that there may be a good chance that the audio still may be good?


Thanks
ZOE

[Juke]

Could be. We were talking mostly about the MPEG codecs, however
the avi codecs could have the same problem.

I'm not sure why the DivX files would have sync problems, unless
the audio part is encoded as MPEGII audio.

From REiREi's previous post with the hyperlink, the splitter used by
most apps seems perectly fine, but once the MPEGII Audio was split
and sent to the bad MPEG codec, then you'd get sync probs.

Good luck.

[Hunting]

Maybe you guys have the solution for my BIG problem.
I've downloaded a divx and converted it to SVCD with TMPGEnc. It plays perfectly on PowerDVD with no sync problems....but if I try to play it on my DVD Player (Pioneer 344), after a few minutes, the audio goes out of sync. Could it be related to those codecs issue???

[Juke]

Hunting, my guess is that you've either got a non-standard SVCD or that
the Pioneer doesn't correctly handle SVCDs. Check the manual on
the Pioneer. You software players on your computer are much more
tollerant of non-standard settings than your DVD player is.

I tried a few nasty things like encoding SVCDs with > 128Kbit audio,
or encoding MPEG2 at 352x240. Both worked for a short time
through my Hollywood+, but failed after a minute or two.

1. Make sure you haven't selected non-standard SVCD settings
2. Check your Pioneer's manual on SVCDs.

[REiREi]

the splitter used by
most apps seems perectly fine, but once the MPEGII Audio was split
and sent to the bad MPEG codec, then you'd get sync probs.

Hey Juke, you really summarised it up so well in just 1 sentence!
(1 sentence explained it all!)
I Like it

[speedy726]

I also had that problem, I converted a divx file into mpeg using tmpgenc and played it through WinDVD without any audio synching problems. When I tried it on my pioneer 440 it had audio synch problems and i know it fully supports svcds according to the manual. Surely enough, I had one of the problematic mpeg2 codecs installed (Elecard). I took the advice of removing it via DXMan (great program btw). Now I'm wondering where I can download a 'good' mpeg2 codec which will eliminate the audio synchage problems I am experiencing. Maybe it's because I'm using CDRW's instead of CDR's for my svcds but my pioneer 440 supports cdrw so chances of that are slim. Anyone knows where I can download a mpeg2 codec please send me a link or something please.

[REiREi]

Surely if u have WinDVD - u already have the winDVD mpeg2 filters installed, so media player should playback mpeg2 fine.

But if u want to load mpeg2 with TMPEG, u might have to try the japanese one. I think it's on the tools page here (NOT the one under Codecs, but the one under TMPEG) that will let u open mpeg2 files in TMPEG, but i haven't checked the sync issue but i think last time i used it, it was ok...

[Hunting]

Hei Juke, I'm sure my DVD player accepts SVCD cause I've downloaded SVCD's and watch them perfectly on my Pioneer.
But maybe is that non-standard thing. Where can I find that option?

Thanks a lot for the reply!!

[Juke]

Hunting, if you didn't load "unlock", then you are "probably" OK,
although there are some settings like bitrate which you can adjust
which may cause some problems on some players. I've had
problems pushing audio tracks through my Hollywood+ which
are >128kbps. The audio gets out of sync with the video.

Click on the "What IS SVCD" on the left side of your screen
here to check what "legal" parameters are for SVCD.

Also, don't assume your authoring software did the right thing
or that your CD-R isn't bad. I just went though a 50 Pack of
CompUsa 24x CDs which had about a 50% failure rate. There
were visible imperfections in the die layer which produced
read errors no matter what write speed I used.

[leebo]

REiREi, Thanks for that tip about the problematic dll in MMC.
I unregistered it and my sound is fine now!

Thanks!!!

[branch]

Easiest way is to goto AnalogX site and download DXman:
http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/audio/dxman.htm

Brilliant REiREi! That program certainly did the trick. Run, remove all filters named Ligos and wam, it was all in sync. (Because I also had AsusDVD installed)

Also, I am not saying Ligos, Elecard codecs are bad,

Well, I am

[branch]

Hm.. cheered too soon there... while the mpeg2 dvd from asus dvd plays it in sync, tmpenc crashes.. oh well