How do you heat your home?

[Valnar]

None of the above.

Electric heat pump
http://www.residential.carrier.com/products/acheatpumps/heatpumps/comfort.shtml

[edDV]

Into the low 30's F tonight (near 0 C) so I turned off the heat pump (fan on for circulation) and lit a fire in the wood stove. Now it is plenty hot everywhere. May need to open a window.

[pristick]

What do you prefer: a furnace or a radiator?

[Bvgary]

I will most likely give my preference to radiators, as they are much more convenient, in my opinion. Since I come home late at night, I have to heat the furnace and wait for the house to warm up while coming straight to a warm house with radiators. When I was renovating my apartment, I also decided to upgrade the radiators. I used check these radiators, with the help of which I was able to find the option I was interested in.

[pandy]

Currently this voting can provide different results, first in Eu there is madness about Green Energy (whatever it means), coal and wood are banned and cursed way to generate heat, we also have due postcovid economy and resent war between Russia and Ukraine insane increase in energy prices - NG was raised from 250$ to around 3000$ per 1000 cubic meters in last two months, prices of electricity also going up yet mad people from EU push for renewable energy sources despite they are unable to provide stable energy supplies... i see future for most of Europeans in gray and cold way... but this is when ideology is placed higher than people life... (above remarks are based on fact that whole EU has less than 20% responsibility for eventual anthropogenic climate change).

As i'm currently building home then i can say that my home will use floor heating (foundation plate will be used as heated floor and heat accumulator - there is already over 1.5km of heating pipes there) with recuperation system (air ventilation with wasted heat recovery) and my two heat sources will be air heat pump and additional, second heat source will be fireplace with some warm air distribution system, also i have ground heat exchange so in summer period i will be able to cool incoming air and recover such heat later in colder days. My goal in near future is to install PV system, in future also small wind turbine and perhaps some electrical energy storage. Incoming years will be very tough for people living on the northern hemisphere...
Unless some miracle happen we will be sent to middle ages by ecofascist's...

[Alwyn]

and wood are banned and cursed way to generate heat

Yes funny that, Great Britain is currently burning "biomass" to produce 1.7gw or 6.7% of their total power consumption. The Germans, biomass 4gw!

[usually_quiet]

What do you prefer: a furnace or a radiator?

I have a boiler and hot water heat, so radiators are the only choice. The only downside is that there is no ductwork to add air conditioning.

[Des]

What do you prefer: a furnace or a radiator?

I have a boiler and hot water heat, so radiators are the only choice. The only downside is that there is no ductwork to add air conditioning.

We have the same kind of set up, an older smaller house with no ductwork and a hot water heater and steam boiler.
We had a mini-split HVAC system put in. One outside unit and two indoor "heads/controllers." They run a 3" amibilical from the outside unit to the two inside units through the wall. It uses a compressor for AC and a heat pump for heat.
This gives us very efficient AC and heat. It works well in our house. Has been very reliable and has come down in prioce a great deal since we had ours done in 2007.

--dES

[Constant Gardener]

In Canada, there are rebates to encourage switching to zero-carbon space heating. So we switched, replacing our ancient gas furnace with a "cold-climate" heat pump. The rebates covered half the total cost, the house is much more comfortable, and now we will have cooling in the summer in case we get a repeat of last year's "heat dome" that pushed temperatures into the low forties.

[pandy]

and wood are banned and cursed way to generate heat

Yes funny that, Great Britain is currently burning "biomass" to produce 1.7gw or 6.7% of their total power consumption. The Germans, biomass 4gw!

Technically coal, gas and oil are biomass - issue is as always in law and ideology... Wood will be banned for private heat generation usage - due generated particles and so called low emission - same for coal...

[Axel Slingerland]

I may not have much experience with video streaming, etc., but I have been using forums since before they were forums in the old dial-in BBS days, and I just have one little bitty question... Starting with post #33, that and all subsequent posts are dated on or after 14th March, 2022, which vBulletin says is 4524 days old. (All previous posts were from 2009.) And my question is This. How can that be, when the number of days between 14th March 2022 and today is only about 22 days? Depending on where and when you start and stop counting the days, of course.

Ok, back on topic...

I live in the hills outside of a coastal town in northern California, where it is typically cool about 60°F / 16.55°C to 70°F / 21.11°C in the summer to 40°F / 4.44°C to 20°F / 6.66°C in the winter. I usually say that we have two seasons, summer and wetter, due to how dry it gets in the summer and how much rain and fog we get in the winter. But the last few years it's been a lot warmer all year round. This past summer it actually got hot, for us anyway. It actually got up to 80°F / 26.66°C. On the other side, that last winter we hardly got any rain and it rarely got below 40°F / 4.44°C. As such we didn't use our gas wall heater or throw any logs on the fire for heat. That saved me a little money but it's also a warning it might get hot again this summer, and that means we have to be on fire watch all the time. I always make the joke "That's the price we pay to live in paradise.", but when it comes to fire season, I have to remember the small town named Paradise, California that was almost completely burned to the ground in 2018, and several other places recently... And that we could be next.

[rrats]

Computer

[thecoalman]

I know this is an old topic but surprised how many people answered coal. When they mention anthracite it's the highest grade of coal and nearly pure carbon. It's "smokless". My avatar is anthracite.

What do you prefer: a furnace or a radiator?

Radiation is going to provide a more even heating experience. There is two cons, it's much more expensive to install and it takes up some space in the living space. Personally after seeing the condition on the inside of many ducts I would never go near ducted heat or AC. I can be gross to put it bluntly and difficult to clean properly.

[lordsmurf]

I know this is an old topic but surprised how many people answered coal. When they mention anthracite it's the highest grade of coal and nearly pure carbon. It's "smokless". My avatar is anthracite. .

"Stop by your Blue Coal dealer today! ... and now, we return to, THE SHADOW!"

[usually_quiet]

Allegheny County Pennsylvania had an anti-smoke ordinance since around 1950 which virtually eliminated the use of coal for heating. Coal-fired boilers were common before that and most people tended to use cheaper bituminous coal for heating. Anthracite was too expensive. I am not sure how many other PA counties have similar ordinances but they were necessary in Pittsburgh. I heard a lot of tales from older Pittsburgh relatives about streetlights that were on until noon and soot accumulating on the window sills to such an extent that they had to be cleaned daily. Every stone or brick building quickly turned black and they were still black decades later unless they were steam-cleaned.

[thecoalman]

Allegheny County Pennsylvania had an anti-smoke ordinance since around 1950 which virtually eliminated the use of coal for heating.

Is it just not enforced? I know there is people in those counties using anthracite and bit coal. You might be able to get bit coal for about $60 out that way, the anthracite is going to run you $500+/- a ton. It's quite high right now because of a huge demand from Europe that developed over this Ukraine situation.

This is restored 1890's "Baseburner", about $15K+/-, it's not typical, new modern stoves and boilers are the most common. A stove like this when originally made would of been found in the homes of very wealthy people.

[usually_quiet]

Allegheny County Pennsylvania had an anti-smoke ordinance since around 1950 which virtually eliminated the use of coal for heating.

Is it just not enforced? I know there is people in those counties using anthracite and bit coal. You might be able to get bit coal for about $60 out that way, the anthracite is going to run you $500+/- a ton. It's quite high right now because of a huge demand from Europe that developed over this Ukraine situation.

In the future, there could be an ordinance against the use of coal (as well as all other fossil fuels) in Alllegheny County but that isn't the case now. This is an anti-smoke ordinance, not an anti-coal ordinance. Enforcement was and probably still is more likely for industrial use and commercial businesses. For residential situations now, a neighbor would probably have to register a smoke-related complaint. Most of Allegheny County went with natural gas as a replacement for coal after WWII. It was clean, cheap, abundant, and convenient, plus there was no pile of coal in the basement and no oil tank.

[thecoalman]

When the primary source of energy for the electric you are using is gas and coal those laws outlawing gas stoves are quite frankly stupid. It's much more efficient to use it at the location you need the energy. Those laws can increase emissions. A newer gas power plant using a technology called combined cycle might be 60% efficient at best, this is before you account for losses in transmission. This could never compete with directly using gas to heat.

As far as anthracite goes anti smoke laws would not affect it, it has lower PM emissions than oil fired units. The only source of heat that would be lower is natural gas. When the EPA was clamping down on these wood stoves this affected some coal stoves because they were labeled dual fuel. They were tested with wood and since they had the opportunity they tested them with anthracite, apparently even the regulators were surprised how low they were. This is information given to me by a manufacturer. The dual fuel lable was removed and they are now only labeled for coal.

As far as industrial and commercial use that is going to be covered under EPA regs. Most of your PM pollution has been eliminated by scrubbers, when you are looking at industrial smoke stack anything visible is water vapor. Because of it's cost even going back to the early 1900's anthracite has never been used in industry. At most it may have been used for large commercial boilers for heating applications.


The use of coal for home heating started a steady decline in the 1920's. Around 1922 PA mined about 200 millions coal equally split between soft coal and anthracite. This was a record that stood into the 2000's when it was eclipsed by Wyoming. Today production for soft coal is somewhere around 40 million tons and 5 million for anthracite. Anthracite is only about 1% of US production.

[aedipuss]

i gave up on anthracite because of the increased cost the last several years. i went back to wood. i can cut and burn as much as i want for free. currently there are many standing dead ash trees everywhere that are free to harvest here, due to the imported chinese bug, "emerald ash borer". all ash will be gone soon, because of it.

[thecoalman]

"Free" depends on your perspective, that's a lot of work. I used to tell people if they were going to cut wood, sell the wood and buy coal. Nowadays that wouldn't make much sense. The recent increases are driven by an enormous demand from Europe.

[ProJiJi]

Interesting to spot this thread as tonight, JST, I suspect will be the coldest night so far in this new winter season and I have been experimenting with a ceramic heater here in this south room where my work stations are located and the sleeping area over there on my right. The last ten years or so, since I started using this abode, I have been relying on a heat pump.

I am also using an oil fan heater in the area of the house between the north room and this south room.

Thing is, here in Japan electric rates are way up and the kerosene prices have been climbing as well.

Thing is, I don't yet know if this ceramic heater unit will be less expensive than the heat pump. I'm also not so sure if it will suffice when it is a fair bit cold outside. Tonight is a first true test. It's not really a big unit, so I wonder how it will work out tonight.

Oh yes, and I have these little hot pad thingies. I don't know what they are called in English. They stay hot for about 12 to 16 hours.

We use only a heat pump unit in our other abode over the ridge north of here in a valley that can get a bit colder than this location.

One thing, though, is I remember that last winter was very mild and seemed to be over much sooner than usual. Be interesting to see how this winter goes. And we had one really, really hot summer here in the western area of the Kanto region. Heating and cooling requires a lot more money than even just a few years ago. We had a bit of luck back when Fukushima Daiichi first had that accident and we had rolling blackouts for a couple weeks or so and it wasn't so cold or hot.

[cholla]

I live in the Texas panhandle & it can get very cold here but also can remain mild in the winter like this one so far.
Not much wood to cut here.Even if a rancher would let me cut Mesquite it burns too hot. I ruined a smoker grill one time using all Mesquite wood.

I selected Gas/propane furnace which is the heat source but it is also forced air central heat.
I have a coupe of space heaters.The quartz tube infrared type.

I also have a vintage six burner double oven natural gas cook stove.
it cooks much better than the modern gas stoves I've had.

@ thecoalman Nice looking coal stove.

[thecoalman]

Thing is, I don't yet know if this ceramic heater unit will be less expensive than the heat pump.

Depends, the ceramic(or any type of electric space heater) produces 3,412 BTU's per kWh. Even if it's a hair dryer, light bulb or some gimmicky electric heater being advertised on TV. The only way they differ is how the heat is distributed. Resistant electric like a ceramic heater is 100% efficient, that is to say 100% of the electric is converted to heat.

Heat pumps use electric but they use it differently, they mechanically extract heat from the air. Since the "fuel" for heat pump is the air it's efficiency is based on how much electric it uses to extract the same amount of heat relative to resistant electric heat. The efficiency changes based on the air temperature, when its colder outside the efficiency is reduced. This figure is usually given as COP value, you have to check what temperature was used for the COP value for your unit. If for example it's COP 2 at 35F that's 200% efficiency over regular electric, you can heat twice the space for same amount of power.

Generally speaking if you had three or four rooms turning and heating only one of them with space heater might save you some money but probably only marginally and the rest of the house is cold..... Ideally you want zoned heating for each room using a cheap/effcient energy source but that can get expensive.

[thecoalman]

@ thecoalman Nice looking coal stove.

It is but it's not mine.

[Subtitles]

There is another option missing in the poll list: Air Condition systems can also heat during winter

[thecoalman]

Air Condition systems can also heat during winter

Not all "air conditioners" do that and generally speaking it's considered a heat pump if it's heating inside air or more specifically air sourced heat pump. Heat pumps, AC and refrigerators all move heat in the air from one space to another. The only real difference between dedicated AC and heat pump is that AC is one way so it's largely semantics at least as far as how they function.

When you compress a gas it gets hot because you are compressing the heat energy. So if you want AC you compress the gas into the outside coil(looks like car radiator) and blow air through the coil removing the heat. Decompress the gas on inside coil and once again blow air through the coil, the heat in the air is absorbed into the cold gas in the coil. Rinse and repeat.

Aerosol can is something most people are familiar with. When those cans are filled at the manufacturer they are going to be hot. The compressed contents will eventually reach ambient air temps. When you decompress the aerosol spray it will be very cold.

[ProJiJi]

There is another option missing in the poll list: Air Condition systems can also heat during winter

Yes, that was what I was referring to with the vocabulary 'heat pump' and that is in both homes. But this location I am trying to see if the ceramic heater will be cheaper.

By the way, thecoalman, thank you for your post providing some explanation about ceramic heaters. You've pointed to some information I hadn't looked into. Actually, I haven't studied enough about all this heating stuff. Another "taking it for granted" danger; just use it and pay the bills. But the new system worked rather well a few nights ago when the first true winter cold hit this area. And I suspect the bill for the ceramic heater could be a bit lower than for the heat pump.

Still, I should educate myself on how all these things work.

By the way, have you ever heard/read about ondol heating? Some 40 or so years ago it was frequently that when we lived off-base in the ROK. And we can still buy those style charcoal round things here in Japan. I guess only used now in rural areas and for some sort of out-of-the-main house purpose. They are way too dangerous in the house. Well, if you use them correctly, the danger is less. Still ...