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  1. Banned
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    Supposedly, the upgrade from Windows Vista to 7 is the most straightforward yet, thanks to the similarity in underlying software. Unfortunately, some users are finding out that the upgrade to Windows 7 could have disastrous, crippling effects.
    in a related story microsoft is quoted as saying: it sucks to be them.

    j/k, on a serious note however, this should be a wake up call to to anyone considering not pirating windows, you spent your money, got shafted by a nasty bug in the install routine and now you're up the creek without a paddle, if you had stolen the software at least you could find some consolation in the fact that you were using an illegal copy and at least you still have the cash in your pocket.

    so for future reference, the proper procedure is to get a pirated copy, install it, run it for a little while, make sure everything works as it should and then if you're feeling guilty send microsoft a check anonymously to ease your guilty conscience.

    seriously though, this is one of those reasons that i say piracy should be viewed as a legitimate way for the general public to level the playing field with companies that sell software that doesn't function as intended or claimed and that the end user has no remedy available to him such as returning the software for a refund.

    i can't tell you how many times over the years i bought software that didn't do what it promised, was buggy as hell, crashed constantly or had some other problem and the developer would only tell me it's my computer hardware's fault.

    i'm looking at you blaze media pro, pinnacle, win me, avs converter and the list goes on...

    edit: i just realized that i had not provided a link to the story, so here it is:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/windows-7-upgrade-install-problem,8934.html
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  2. Why get a "pirate" copy of Windows at all?

    If you are in a situation where you have a PC with no OS installed and you don't want to cough up some cash for Windows, then Linux is at the the stage now where even novice users can get it up and running with ease. Exactly the same thing happens when you click the Firefox icon in both Windows and Linux, and for every windows app, there's usually a free Linux equivalent. The exception of course is for games.

    At least with Linux you don't have to worry about whether the next update is going to break your Windows activation crack.
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  3. No Linux equivalent of AviSynth yet. AviSynth does work with Wine though. I've been playing around with it a bit -- AviSynth + VirtualDub via Wine under Ubuntu.
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  4. Member Xylob the Destroyer's Avatar
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    Microsoft has such a superior track record with product releases... (when we gonna get that official sarcasm font?).
    Frankly, anybody who buys a new OS from Microsoft on launch day deserves to get screwed.
    In fact, anybody who buys a new OS from Microsoft on launch day = beta tester.
    Wait AT LEAST a year folks.
    "To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research." - Steven Wright
    "Megalomaniacal, and harder than the rest!"
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  5. You should always do a complete backup before upgrading an existing OS. If not and it all goes pear shaped then tough titties.
    John Miller
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    Originally Posted by mh2360
    Why get a "pirate" copy of Windows at all?

    If you are in a situation where you have a PC with no OS installed and you don't want to cough up some cash for Windows, then Linux is at the the stage now where even novice users can get it up and running with ease. Exactly the same thing happens when you click the Firefox icon in both Windows and Linux, and for every windows app, there's usually a free Linux equivalent. The exception of course is for games.

    At least with Linux you don't have to worry about whether the next update is going to break your Windows activation crack.
    alot of what i said was meant tongue-in-cheek, i can't officially advocate "pirating" software, it's against this forum's rules.

    as for linux, i absolutely agree, hell many distros have been to the point where they could be used as a primary OS for years now, i used to run a win2k/redhat 7 dual boot for years, suse has been top notch for a while, mandrake i found to be kind of iffy, with one version being great and the next blowing chunks, vector soho is definitely one of the better offerings but despite all that my current favorite alternate OS is not linux at all, it's PC-BSD.

    as a matter of fact, back when vista was first released i said PC-BSD was so good microsoft should have bought the company (before they were bought by ixsystems) and simply ported DX over, added Aero since ms wanted to include it so much and have a nice robust, stable, high performance offering with a minimum amount of investment (i remember reading that vista supposedly cost microsoft something in the range of 100 million bucks to develop!!!) and the OS would be scalable, bulletproof, and they could have had their own version of OS X.

    but what do i know, i'm just an unemployed exterminator, bill and company are worth billions....
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    You should always do a complete backup before upgrading an existing OS. If not and it all goes pear shaped then tough titties.
    what?!? in what way is it reasonable to assume that upgrading an OS will result in a FUBAR'd system. that's ridiculous, how about some accountability on the part of the developer? how about big business not having the attitude of "f**k our customers, we have their money, it sucks to be them"?

    an OS upgrade should not result in a hosed system, especially when you are using an upgrade version of the new OS that's specifically designed to upgrade your current OS. hell the word upgrade is even in the product name, "Windows 7 Upgrade", the name isn't "Windows 7 you can go f**k yourself".

    are you kidding me?
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    Originally Posted by Xylob the Destroyer
    Microsoft has such a superior track record with product releases... (when we gonna get that official sarcasm font?).
    Frankly, anybody who buys a new OS from Microsoft on launch day deserves to get screwed.
    In fact, anybody who buys a new OS from Microsoft on launch day = beta tester.
    Wait AT LEAST a year folks.
    you're absolutely right!!! wait until at least the first service pack is released, hell i'm currently running an OEM version of XP 64 and may eventually upgrade to windows 7 when (or better yet, if) software comes out that takes advantage of DX Compute, at which point i'll also pick up a cheap DX11 video card (probably from ATI) along with a student version of win7 (yeah i'm not a student, and technically i don't qualify, but i thought discrimination was illegal in this country).

    at any rate i will definitely wait until all the teething problems are resolved...
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    Originally Posted by deadrats
    Supposedly, the upgrade from Windows Vista to 7 is the most straightforward yet, thanks to the similarity in underlying software. Unfortunately, some users are finding out that the upgrade to Windows 7 could have disastrous, crippling effects.
    in a related story microsoft is quoted as saying: it sucks to be them.

    j/k, on a serious note however, this should be a wake up call to to anyone considering not pirating windows, you spent your money, got shafted by a nasty bug in the install routine and now you're up the creek without a paddle, if you had stolen the software at least you could find some consolation in the fact that you were using an illegal copy and at least you still have the cash in your pocket.

    so for future reference, the proper procedure is to get a pirated copy, install it, run it for a little while, make sure everything works as it should and then if you're feeling guilty send microsoft a check anonymously to ease your guilty conscience.

    seriously though, this is one of those reasons that i say piracy should be viewed as a legitimate way for the general public to level the playing field with companies that sell software that doesn't function as intended or claimed and that the end user has no remedy available to him such as returning the software for a refund.

    i can't tell you how many times over the years i bought software that didn't do what it promised, was buggy as hell, crashed constantly or had some other problem and the developer would only tell me it's my computer hardware's fault.

    i'm looking at you blaze media pro, pinnacle, win me, avs converter and the list goes on...
    or just buy a legit copy and throw it in the drawer

    ocgw

    peace
    i7 2700K @ 4.4Ghz 16GB DDR3 1600 Samsung Pro 840 128GB Seagate 2TB HDD EVGA GTX 650
    https://forum.videohelp.com/topic368691.html
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    Originally Posted by deadrats
    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    You should always do a complete backup before upgrading an existing OS. If not and it all goes pear shaped then tough titties.
    what?!? in what way is it reasonable to assume that upgrading an OS will result in a FUBAR'd system. that's ridiculous, how about some accountability on the part of the developer? how about big business not having the attitude of "f**k our customers, we have their money, it sucks to be them"?

    an OS upgrade should not result in a hosed system, especially when you are using an upgrade version of the new OS that's specifically designed to upgrade your current OS. hell the word upgrade is even in the product name, "Windows 7 Upgrade", the name isn't "Windows 7 you can go f**k yourself".

    are you kidding me?
    I did a complete backup of Windows 7 RC 7100 before I loaded Win 7 Ultimate "Signature Edition", and good thing too, because something went wrong, I used a Acronis system image to go back to RC until the weekend when I had plenty of time, and installed Win 7 Sig over again, everything is fine now

    Once in while a install doesn't go smoothly in my experience w/ any OS

    Or is it just me? lol

    ps. I tried installing Win 7 32-bit on a old HP P4 SFF system and it would not boot from the optical drive, put in XP SP2 and it booted and installed, "go figure"

    ocgw

    peace
    i7 2700K @ 4.4Ghz 16GB DDR3 1600 Samsung Pro 840 128GB Seagate 2TB HDD EVGA GTX 650
    https://forum.videohelp.com/topic368691.html
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  11. MS has a free download of a compatibility checker & if you run that it says how you should install it & what works with it.
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  12. Originally Posted by deadrats
    i can't tell you how many times over the years i bought software that didn't do what it promised, was buggy as hell, crashed constantly or had some other problem and the developer would only tell me it's my computer hardware's fault.
    Yet you find ridiculous the suggestion that you should backup your system before upgrading an OS. Your many times over the years should have taught you that sh!t can happen. I can understand a casual PC owner making the assumption that everything will go fine but not someone with the experiences you have had.

    No sympathy for anyone who does know better yet fails to backup their system and ends up with it hosed.
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    I always back everything up thats important, then wipe clean and do a fresh complete install of any OS, anytime i ever used an "upgrade" disc instead of a full version, it always ended up being more work then just starting fresh.
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  14. OSX had the same problem, some got hosed with the upgrade.
    Linux has done the same thing and many more times than Windows or OSx
    It's a fact of life, No OS manufacture can test ALL combinations of drivers and software installed on the hardware of choice.

    If you don't backup your important data, it's your own damn fault.
    tgpo famous MAC commercial, You be the judge?
    Originally Posted by jagabo
    I use the FixEverythingThat'sWrongWithThisVideo() filter. Works perfectly every time.
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  15. Member Sartori's Avatar
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    Ive lost quite a few things over the years , the only person Ive blamed is myself . Dont like Windows ? delete it and stop whining .
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  16. Originally Posted by Sartori
    Ive lost quite a few things over the years , the only person Ive blamed is myself . Dont like Windows ? delete it and stop whining .
    Yes, that's why the shrink wrap license for virtually every software package basically says: "We don't guarantee this software does anything. If it doesn't work as advertised, or if it screws up your computer, that's your problem. We are only liable for the cost of this software. No returns are allowed once you opened the package. You have no choice but to agree to these license terms because you had to open the package to see the terms. You're fucked. We're not."
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  17. Yea another rant by deadrats.
    In the future you might want to post some links to backup your claims.
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    Originally Posted by JohnnyMalaria
    Originally Posted by deadrats
    i can't tell you how many times over the years i bought software that didn't do what it promised, was buggy as hell, crashed constantly or had some other problem and the developer would only tell me it's my computer hardware's fault.
    Yet you find ridiculous the suggestion that you should backup your system before upgrading an OS. Your many times over the years should have taught you that sh!t can happen. I can understand a casual PC owner making the assumption that everything will go fine but not someone with the experiences you have had.

    No sympathy for anyone who does know better yet fails to backup their system and ends up with it hosed.
    it should be noted that in this case there is no lose of data, so "backing up" doesn't do you a lick of good, what happens is the upgrade fails and you are left with a non-functioning system, you still need to re-install the old OS, back up or no back up, and even if you made an image of the old installation you still need to restore it from the image.

    no matter which way you look at it "backing up" does nothing to prevent this from happening, these people bought an upgrade version of win7 and had a reasonable expectation to use it that way, in fact that is the only way they can legally use it, technically it's illegal to do a clean install using an upgrade edition, that's why the option for a clean install isn't available when you boot up with an upgrade version.

    so i don't what you or anyone else in this thread is thinking when they say it's the users fault for not backing up, in what way do you guys think that would have helped?
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    Originally Posted by jagabo
    Originally Posted by Sartori
    Ive lost quite a few things over the years , the only person Ive blamed is myself . Dont like Windows ? delete it and stop whining .
    Yes, that's why the shrink wrap license for virtually every software package basically says: "We don't guarantee this software does anything. If it doesn't work as advertised, or if it screws up your computer, that's your problem. We are only liable for the cost of this software. No returns are allowed once you opened the package. You have no choice but to agree to these license terms because you had to open the package to see the terms. You're fucked. We're not."
    actually there was a case in california that said "shrink wrap" licenses weren't valid because you don't actually get a chance to see the eula until after you have opened the package at which point its too late.

    i personally can't stand software companies specifically for that reason, their business model borders on being a scam. about the only thing that sickens me more than the software companies are the clowns that sit here and defend them using idiotic arguments, which quite frankly one can only assume are put forth by those that make their living via the scam business model that is software sales.
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    Originally Posted by MOVIEGEEK
    Yea another rant by deadrats.
    In the future you might want to post some links to backup your claims.
    which "claims" would you like backed up? i'm more than happy to accommodate.
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    Originally Posted by Noahtuck
    I always back everything up thats important, then wipe clean and do a fresh complete install of any OS, anytime i ever used an "upgrade" disc instead of a full version, it always ended up being more work then just starting fresh.
    we just went through this in another thread, it's illegal to do a clean install using "upgrade" media, that's why the option for a clean install is deactivated, you are effectively "pirating" the full version by using "upgrade" media to do a clean install, if you are going to do that you might as well pirate completely and just download the OS from a torrent site.
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    Originally Posted by stiltman
    OSX had the same problem, some got hosed with the upgrade.
    Linux has done the same thing and many more times than Windows or OSx
    It's a fact of life, No OS manufacture can test ALL combinations of drivers and software installed on the hardware of choice.

    If you don't backup your important data, it's your own damn fault.
    3 things:

    1) the difference is that if this happens with linux at least you can console yourself that you got the OS for free so you're not out any cash in addition to ending up with a non-functioning system,

    2) data loss should never be a factor in a software upgrade, in the case of Snow Leopard its absolutely inexcusable that an OS upgrade resulted in data corruption, such a thing points to sloppy programming, the file system should not be touched unless the user explicitly tells the install routine to change over to another file system, like say going from UFS to HFS+, if the file system isn't touch there is no reason for any data loss other than OS specific settings being overwritten.

    3) in this case there is no data loss just the system is left unusable so backing up your data wouldn't do squat to mitigate the outcome, capice?
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  23. Member Sartori's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by deadrats
    blah blah blah.....
    3) in this case there is no data loss just the system is left unusable so backing up your data wouldn't do squat to mitigate the outcome, capice?
    Im phoning the Guiness Book of World Records to lay claim to the Worlds Most Patronising Forum Answer for you
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    Originally Posted by Sartori
    Originally Posted by deadrats
    blah blah blah.....
    3) in this case there is no data loss just the system is left unusable so backing up your data wouldn't do squat to mitigate the outcome, capice?
    Im phoning the Guiness Book of World Records to lay claim to the Worlds Most Patronising Forum Answer for you
    before you do that perhaps you should ask them for the proper spelling of their organization:

    http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/

    if you are going post a smart ass reply, the least you could do is make sure you spell all the words correctly; in addition to misspelling Guinness you also misspelled patronizing. let me guess, you were trying to upgrade your browser's built in spell checker and something went wrong, so it no longer works.

    i personally blame you.

    btw, because i don't want this post to be seen as totally negative allow me to just say that i would totally do your avatar.

    thank you, come again.
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    Originally Posted by deadrats
    we just went through this in another thread, it's illegal to do a clean install using "upgrade" media, that's why the option for a clean install is deactivated,
    Please provide proof of this, seeing as Microsoft themselves says when migrating from XP->Win7 with upgrade media you must do a clean install.
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/upgrade?os=other
    "Upgrading from Windows XP
    If your current PC can run Windows 7, you can upgrade it. Note that you can use upgrade media, but you must perform a custom installation of Windows 7, which doesn't keep any of your files, programs, or settings."

    And every report I've read indicates there is no such "deactivation" of the "Custom" option on upgrade media.

    This is exactly what I plan on doing (and following Paul Thurrott's tips on doing this: http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/clean_install_upgrade_media.asp ), but haven't had a chance yet to crack open my upgrade copy (too many others thing to do before I can even prep for the upgrade).

    And frankly, unless you've never, ever used any version of Windows, you are "upgrading" and can use upgrade media; nothing "illegal" about that at all.
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    Originally Posted by Jim44
    Originally Posted by deadrats
    we just went through this in another thread, it's illegal to do a clean install using "upgrade" media, that's why the option for a clean install is deactivated,
    Please provide proof of this, seeing as Microsoft themselves says when migrating from XP->Win7 with upgrade media you must do a clean install.
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/upgrade?os=other
    "Upgrading from Windows XP
    If your current PC can run Windows 7, you can upgrade it. Note that you can use upgrade media, but you must perform a custom installation of Windows 7, which doesn't keep any of your files, programs, or settings."

    And every report I've read indicates there is no such "deactivation" of the "Custom" option on upgrade media.

    This is exactly what I plan on doing (and following Paul Thurrott's tips on doing this: http://www.winsupersite.com/win7/clean_install_upgrade_media.asp ), but haven't had a chance yet to crack open my upgrade copy (too many others thing to do before I can even prep for the upgrade).

    And frankly, unless you've never, ever used any version of Windows, you are "upgrading" and can use upgrade media; nothing "illegal" about that at all.
    the proof is in the pudding, if you have an "upgrade" version of vista the option for a clean install is not available, if you have a full version of vista the upgrade option is not available.

    furthermore, the upgrade version is significantly cheaper than the full version, why would microsoft allow you to use an upgrade version the same way you would a clean install.

    note also in the quote from microsoft it doesn't say you must do a "clean" install, it says you must do a "custom" install.

    lastly, download the EULA right from microsoft and read through it:

    http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx

    under section 8 there it says in part:

    you may not work around any technical limitations of the software
    and under section 13 it says:

    to use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. after you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from.
    if the eula explicitly forbids one from working around any technical limitations of the software and the install routine doesn't allow you to perform a clean install with upgrade media without having to use a work around then how can anyone think that microsoft's licensing terms allows for the clean install using upgrade media?
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    for anyone that still doubts that you are not legally allowed to do a clean install using upgrade media:

    straight from microsoft:

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/930985/en-us

    This problem occurs because Windows Vista does not check upgrade compliance. Therefore, you cannot use an upgrade key to perform a clean installation of Windows Vista.
    http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade_clean.asp

    Is this legal?

    One might naturally wonder whether the aforementioned instructions describe an action that is legal or ethical. After all, anyone could purchase an Upgrade version of Windows Vista (therefore saving a lot of money when compared to a Full version) and use it to perform a clean install even if they don't own a previous, compliant Window version.

    After telling my "Windows Vista Secrets" coauthor Brian Livingston about this workaround, he wrote that using this process was indeed ethical, in his opinion. "Microsoft itself created the upgrade process," he wrote in a newsletter article describing the workaround. "The company designed Vista to support upgrading it over a previously installed copy of XP, W2K Pro, or Vista itself. This isn't a black-hat hacker exploit. It's something that's been deliberately programmed into the approved setup routine."

    Fair enough. Of course, if you do use this workaround to clean install Vista with the Upgrade media, and you don't own a previous, compliant version of Windows, you're most certainly violating the Windows EULA and, thus, breaking the law. Proceed at your own risk.
    as paul points out if you use the workaround to clean install vista (and windows 7) without owning a compliant previous version of windows, you are pirating the software.

    however, microsoft themselves make it clear in the eula that they do not allow for any workaround to be used to bypass any software limitation and they further make it clear in their knowledge base that clean installing using an upgrade key is not supported, thus if you perform a clean install using an upgrade version of vista (or win 7, they have the same eula) you are pirating the OS.

    case closed.
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    Originally Posted by deadrats
    Originally Posted by Noahtuck
    I always back everything up thats important, then wipe clean and do a fresh complete install of any OS, anytime i ever used an "upgrade" disc instead of a full version, it always ended up being more work then just starting fresh.
    we just went through this in another thread, it's illegal to do a clean install using "upgrade" media, that's why the option for a clean install is deactivated, you are effectively "pirating" the full version by using "upgrade" media to do a clean install, if you are going to do that you might as well pirate completely and just download the OS from a torrent site.
    Who the hell said i was using an "upgrade" disc to do a full install ??


    I always buy the FULL version to do exactly what i said.
    8)
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  29. Member Xylob the Destroyer's Avatar
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    Micro$oft upgrade discs ARE full versions - they just have some 'extra' code to check for previous version or ask for previous version install disc.
    I've done a complete install (many times) with brand new HD using upgrade disc - all you have to do is put the previous version install disc in when it asks.
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  30. Member wulf109's Avatar
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    I think Microsoft has made a huge error in not allowing upgrades from XP. There are probably millions of users who did not convert to Vista and still use XP. In my case I installed over XP but W7 moved all my all old files into a directory called oldwindows. It did leave non-windows files on the HD,but it moved all Program Files to the oldwindows directory.
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