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  1. Member 16mmJunkie's Avatar
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    I notice that many of you are using Linux to author, edit, capture video(either analog or DV) and produce DVDs. I'm looking to try a Linux OS for the same purpose, as I have been using XP Pro for all my transfers over the last several years.

    Question: What are you using OS wise and a brief reason would be great. I also see some great programs you have built to make the task effective.

    Thanks

    16mmJunkie

    PS non primary system I wish to use for the Linux:

    Athlon XP 2000 + 1.66 ghz
    soyo dragon lite KT333
    512mb DDR
    1- 80GB HD
    1-120GB HD
    Nivida GeForce mx 440

    1-CD RW Sony
    1-4X lite on DVD R+/R- RW

    ( I currently have a Workstation with 2- 2.8GHZ Dual Intel Xeon processors, 2GB RAMBUS , 500GB HD internal, ATI Radeon 9800 PRO 256MB, 1 2.4XDVD R+ RW, 1 16X DVD DL R-/R+ RW and a INTEL Dual Core 2.8GHZ , 2GB PC 5600, 250GB SATA HD internal , NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT, 1X DVD R+ RW, 8X DVD DL 64 bit system as well which I use both for film transfer and DVD production)
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  2. Man of Steel freebird73717's Avatar
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    Oh there is only a few hundred distro's for you to choose from. I personally use regular install of ubuntu. It's what I like best. But there are so many more choices. Look around and try a few to decide what you like.

    As far as audio video go there are a couple of media centered distros. There is ubuntu studio which is more geared towards audio and video.

    There is also avlinux put together by forum member Gmaq. It's a debian based distro geared for audio and video work.
    https://forum.videohelp.com/topic368300.html

    I'm sure there are more geared towards a/v work but that's all that I can think of right now.

    A good resource for all things linux is www.distrowatch.com
    It's a good way to keep track of all that is going on with linux.

    Enjoy!
    Donadagohvi (Cherokee for "Until we meet again")
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    I've tried to use Ubuntu for multimedia creation. It's a rat-hole. Save yourself some grief and pick Mac or Windows (whichever you're more comfortable with).

    Please note that this is not a religious discussion; I am not talking about the goodness of open-source. Rather, I'm talking about getting work done.
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  4. Man of Steel freebird73717's Avatar
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    You can do plenty with linux. I've accomplished a lot in linux using a combination of native nix apps and some windows apps with wine.

    I'm not going to argue that working with video is easier with windows because I can't. Usually it is easier to work video with windows. However many of the softwares that we use in the windows world today are nothing but ports of software that was developed in linux.

    Here is a few nix apps to get you started
    kino for capturing/editing
    winff for encoding to mpeg
    qdvdauthor or dvdstyler for authoring your dvd.

    you can also use windows apps with wine
    hcenc
    avisynth
    cce
    dvdlab pro
    dvdshrink
    dvdrebuilder
    Donadagohvi (Cherokee for "Until we meet again")
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  5. Member 16mmJunkie's Avatar
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    [quote="freebird73717"]You can do plenty with linux. I've accomplished a lot in linux using a combination of native nix apps and some windows apps with wine.

    I'm not going to argue that working with video is easier with windows because I can't. Usually it is easier to work video with windows. However many of the softwares that we use in the windows world today are nothing but ports of software that was developed in linux.

    Freebird,


    Thanks for the response. I will look into these you mentioned. Could it be that the reason it is so much easier in a Windows format due to most of us growing up (I use this loosely ) on that OS through the years? And once we work with Linux for a long period it will become just as easy?

    I know you have some cool programs you have built and I look forward to giving them a try. I have all these reels I wish to "play with" again on my telecine and this medium is interesting.

    16mmJunkie
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    unfortunately no, Linux is never going to be "just as easy" until software is developed for Linux that is just as easy.

    You can get around fine in Linux after you learn the file structure and they are finally starting to have user friendly application installers, but look at the example above, you need 3 applications to capture, edit, render to mpeg and author to dvd where you could do it all with 1 app in windows.

    There are many absolutely fabulous open source applications out there like open office, etc., but many of them are not as good and leave you, the end user, having to go through many additional steps to get to your end result. if you like getting the job done and going on with your life as opposed to doing this in app x, then going to app y, then converting so it will work with app z, then Linux isn't for you.

    I have an older laptop with a failed hard drive controller and I use Puppy Linux off a live cd which has a web browser, word processor, and some of the "basic" computing things built in. It also saves the files/settinsg to a usb drive. I set up my printer to work with it and it basically saved a laptop that otherwise would have been junked due to it's age and failing health. Puppy runs faster than windows ever did because it's a very light/clean OS. So in a situation like that I would have recommended Linux to you.
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Look into AVLinux.
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  8. Man of Steel freebird73717's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by greymalkin
    but look at the example above, you need 3 applications to capture, edit, render to mpeg and author to dvd where you could do it all with 1 app in windows
    I guess that doesn't bother me as I use seperate apps to capture, edit, encode, and author in windows as well!

    Originally Posted by 16mmJunkie
    Could it be that the reason it is so much easier in a Windows format due to most of us growing up (I use this loosely ) on that OS through the years? And once we work with Linux for a long period it will become just as easy?
    Yep. It took me a while myself to get comfortable working in linux. Now I can accomplish whatever I want in linux just like I can in windows. It's just done differently.

    I've got an 8 year old son who knows his way around ubuntu just as well as he does windows. The computer I built for him is actually running ubuntu. However I'm not indoctrinating him to use just one OS. I'm trying to teach him to use many OS. If I had the money I'd even buy him a mac to learn on as well. Since he is starting using multiple OS he is not going to have the "growing pains" that I and others have had learning to use other OS.

    You seem like you really want to learn so I want to encourage you. Try several different distros until you find the one that is right for you. Then take the time to learn the in's and out's of that distro. Once you feel comfortable you will be able to accomplish almost anything.

    If you come across specific questions just post them and I'm sure that someone will be able to help. We have quite a few people here that use linux and are quite knowledgeable.
    Donadagohvi (Cherokee for "Until we meet again")
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  9. Member 16mmJunkie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Look into AVLinux.
    LordSmurf,

    I just downloaded it( at your recommendation and Freebirds) and will test drive it. It looks like what I really am looking for. Great bunch of people here.


    Originally Posted by freebird73717
    I guess that doesn't bother me as I use seperate apps to capture, edit, encode, and author in windows as well! laugh.gif

    I'm the same way I always used multi apps to complete a project, I'm just not a one click guy I like to create!


    TYSM

    16mmJunkie

    if the light ain't bright, it ain't right!
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  10. I'm the same way I always used multi apps to complete a project, I'm just not a one click guy
    No kidding as are most people on this site

    I don't know what greymalkin is talking about. Most people on this site hate one app for all solutions, Nero anyone???

    Trust me, Linux is a lot easier to use today than it was back in 2000. Back in the day you had to know the hardware you were using right down to the MB chipset! Today, you just pop in the install disc and it just installs. Hell driver support is better under Linux than under Vista! Never thought I'd say that. Linux has come full circle.

    Some apps will take some getting used to and some may be command line with no GUI. But if you can read, you can figure it out. Windows 7 is not exactly intuitive. Microsoft has changes the interface in Windows 7 and Office to the point where you actually need to read documentation to figure out how to do things. It's not as easy as it once was.

    And the other thing is, it's free! You can't beat that.

    At the end of the day you may find what you want to do is easier to do in Windows than in Linux. Then again, you might not. It really depends on finding the applications you need and what you are willing to do.

    Good luck
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    I knew I should have put a disclaimer on my 1 application comment to keep someone from coming in and crying about it. Depending on your application there are times when a single application will do what you need as far as capturing, editing, and outputting to DVD (Premiere, anyone?). Many of which are free and suggesting nero is just a silly distraction.

    The problem isn't Linux, it's finding the software. Give me something that works like premiere & encore (2 apps, does that make you happy?) on Linux and I'll sing its praises with you.
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  12. Man of Steel freebird73717's Avatar
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    Nah man I'm not singing it's praises. I just think linux and the available software for it is better than what some were making it out to be.

    I haven't used premiere or encore so honestly I can't recommend a linux based alternative. Honestly there probably isn't nix apps that rival those progs. But there again the vast majority of nix apps are coded by just single programmers or small groups of programmers. Hard for them to compete with adobe in that aspect. If you need those programs then linux probably just isn't for you.

    For me, I can do what I want using the open source software that's available for linux.... with a little bit of wine mixed in sometimes...

    and while it may seem like it, I'm not a linux fanboy or zealot. but I am productive when I do use it. I also use xp alot too. I have no problems using windows software
    Donadagohvi (Cherokee for "Until we meet again")
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  13. Member 16mmJunkie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by greymalkin
    I knew I should have put a disclaimer on my 1 application comment to keep someone from coming in and crying about it. Depending on your application there are times when a single application will do what you need as far as capturing, editing, and outputting to DVD (Premiere, anyone?). Many of which are free and suggesting nero is just a silly distraction.

    The problem isn't Linux, it's finding the software. Give me something that works like premiere & encore (2 apps, does that make you happy?) on Linux and I'll sing its praises with you.
    Actually your entitled to your opinion..just as the rest of us. One thing I learned is that nobody has to agree with you, but your still entitled to your opinion. If I don't like the comment I don't take it to heart. If you like to be working with only one app like the ULEAD, Premiere, products of the world go for it. I like to create and not be tied to one program. Most products are good in single areas, but not all. Lots of people like the point and click method, for myself I don't, I like to create, design, shape things.


    And actually that is what Linux is a chance to create your own software as opposed to purchasing something from someone who did all the work for you. I imagine in time once I learn Linux well, I'll develop my own as many before have.

    Enjoy your way and I'll enjoy mine. I didn't take the other post as CRYING, it was their thought on the subject. Thanks for your opinion.


    16mmJunkie

    If the light ain't Bright, It ain't Right!!
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    The problem is not Linux (as someone else said). The problem is that there isn't any QuickTime for Linux. The developers of a number of multimedia apps (for Linux) all expressed the same frustration: If Apple would make QuickTime available for Linux, it would change everything.

    This is why I stopped beating my head against the Linux wall.
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  15. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by greymalkin

    The problem isn't Linux, it's finding the software. Give me something that works like premiere & encore (2 apps, does that make you happy?) on Linux and I'll sing its praises with you.
    The problem with posts like this - you can list 500000000000000000000000 windows only programs and demand(ask) for something similar or even close to it in Linux. I can then in turn list 500000000000000000000000 Linux only applications and demand(ask) for something similar or even close to it in Windows. But honestly who gives a shit? How long did it take you to learn Premiere? Pay for training? Take a class? And how much time did you devote to Cinelerra? Kino? LiVES? Kdenlive? PiTiVi? Blender? OpenShot? Ever thought about what the studios (Dream Works, Pixar, ILMS) use? Sure isn't Encore or even FCP

    Hold on honey I'm arguing on the Internet. I'm showing this guy my E-Penis is the largest

    The question is not nearly as important nor difficult as people make it out to be. If you WORK with your PC and DEMAND compliance that only application A,B,C can give then you use the OS that those applications work on. If you're just playing with the PC - then what's the point in attempting to sway's one's view?

    To address the OP -
    Coming from only knowing Windows to any Linux Distro will be a nightmare. Never let anyone confuse, nor lie to you about that. It's like living in City A your whole life, then get dropped off in City B with a road map written in something that looks like (but not quite) English. Sure after some time and effort, you'll learn the roads, learn the langauge, a couple of short cuts here and there. Hell you may even like your new place and make it home. Maybe it's just a vacation spot. Perhaps you'll run far away screaming as fast as possible. But you won't know until you go there. And as always - have fun!

    This is not directed at greymalkin or anyone else - just a general statement
    Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly.
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    alright alright I used inflammatory words such as crying and fanned the flames. lets all come in for a group hug.

    honestly I do have high hopes for open source applications, I'd love for every application I use to be free (LEGALLY free, that is to say). As far as trying everything out, I don't have the time or the patience for it anymore, so I'll let others do it and if a consensus is reached that program X is awesome for this or that then I'll have a look.
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    I am somewhat surprised to read that driver support is better overall for Linux than for Vista.

    One of the most common complaints I saw while looking at TV cards a couple of months ago was that Linux drivers were unavailable from the manufacturer, in spite of MythTV's long-standing popularity for HTPCs.

    I didn't read many complaints about other hardware, but while looking for Vista drivers for my Wacom drawing tablet, I did see that Linux drivers for Wacom drawing tablets are written by 3rd parties, not Wacom. Is that situation more common than having drivers provided by the manufacturer?

    [edit]...or does this mean that old gear will continue to work with its old drivers, instead of becoming useless, after switching to a later and greater version of Linux?
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  18. Member 16mmJunkie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    To address the OP -
    Coming from only knowing Windows to any Linux Distro will be a nightmare. Never let anyone confuse, nor lie to you about that. It's like living in City A your whole life, then get dropped off in City B with a road map written in something that looks like (but not quite) English. Sure after some time and effort, you'll learn the roads, learn the langauge, a couple of short cuts here and there. Hell you may even like your new place and make it home. Maybe it's just a vacation spot. Perhaps you'll run far away screaming as fast as possible. But you won't know until you go there. And as always - have fun!

    This is not directed at greymalkin or anyone else - just a general statement

    Boy I have to admit that's right where I'm at right now. And I mean to do just like you stated "Have Fun doing it." I really got the most response here as oppose to those Linux sites which claim to be forum friendly and want to help "Newbie". Thanks for those leads, opinions, directions, and the very large Grin I got from your shall I say "Disturbed" but you put the Nail on the Head in the first part of the post. It put this Original Poster in a great direction. For now I'm on vacation from my old comfortable OS home, thinking about what I'll do after the vacation is over at a thrilling, and new environment that seems to make me feel young again when the young, hot, and untouchable item gives me the goosebumps. But once I get familiar with her, I realize it's just like what I have, and that it's called gaining knowledge. To me that's what it's about. Moving forward to improve my skills but still complete what I started to do. My projects with 16mm film.


    16mmJunkie

    If the Light ain't Bright, It ain't Right!!
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  19. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by greymalkin
    I don't have the time or the patience for it anymore
    I believe that is what happens to many people. They spend so much time learning the ins and outs of a program (Photoshop for example), they become dependent on it. Not because it's better, faster, more $THIS - though Photoshop is damn good - but because it's what they know. I would gander at least 80% of what people do in Windows can be done just as good and efficient in Linux. I'm not talking about Broadcast level Avid editing, or a semiPro using Photoshop and moving to Gimp (Which the Gimp is NOT an equal to! Pain.net maybe ) For general purpose consumer level tasks, it is easy. I would never claim a truly Windows (nor Mac) oriented task can be 100% accomplished in Linux. Just as people would be foolish to use Windows in high availability applications (Stock Exchange for example). There are many things Linux can and can not do, as is the same in every OS.

    When we started the migration to Linux ~10 years ago, 90% of everything video related was done through Wine. Just could not come to grips with all of the different settings (man mplayer ) A few weeks back I loaded up a KVM instance of Windows 7, and checked out XviD4PSP. Oh My $DIETY!! I was completely lost. Could not figure anything out. Now and then I do launch a KVM instance of $MICROSOFT-OS just to see if I'm missing anything. To me it is just so much easier now to type a few words and get the job done.

    So I completely understand everytime someone states they are frustrated, having issues figuring out how to do something. But to spread FUD, and say things like CAN"T IMPOSSIBLE, that's wrong (99.9%). It's as wrong as me saying Windows is insecure, crashes all the time, and a virus haven. We all know it is stupid users that cause this
    Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly.
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  20. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet
    I am somewhat surprised to read that driver support is better overall for Linux than for Vista.

    One of the most common complaints I saw while looking at TV cards a couple of months ago was that Linux drivers were unavailable from the manufacturer, in spite of MythTV's long-standing popularity for HTPCs.

    I didn't read many complaints about other hardware, but while looking for Vista drivers for my Wacom drawing tablet, I did see that Linux drivers for Wacom drawing tablets are written by 3rd parties, not Wacom. Is that situation more common than having drivers provided by the manufacturer?

    [edit]...or does this mean that old gear will continue to work with its old drivers, instead of becoming useless, after switching to a later and greater version of Linux?
    Most drivers are included in the Linux Kernel. These drivers get there a number of different ways. Most commonly, the manufacturer actually writes, or at least helps with, the code to make their device(s) work. Intel, for example, commits huge amounts of code to the kernel for their devices. The manufacturer may release the specs to their hardware to allow a Kernel dev to write the code. Last resort is to reverse engineer the device. A good example is with Realtek devices (NICs and Audio). Realtek writes their own Linux drivers, available on the Realtek site. The Kernel devs responcible for these modules sync the current Kernel with those Realtek drivers. The Kernel devs apply patches and fixes to make the code clean, and squash bugs. The Kernel devs forward their fixes to Realtek. Realtek takes these commits combines them with their code, adds some more of their own fixes, and releases a new driver - cycle repeats.

    Linux, in the driver department, is 360* different from Windows. In Windows you need to (sometimes) scour the net for a driver to download and install. With Linux it comes as a module. More times than not, if it's not in the Kernel you are SOL. The Kernel is updated constantly. What does not work today, could very well work in a few hours, days, weeks - perhaps never Usually with new hardware (USB 3.0) it's pretty quick to surface. Proprietary hardware from non Linux friendly companies - don't hold your breath.

    Windows has/will/does drop support for hardware devices over time. Example, my Promise PCI ATA 100 adapter card will no longer work with at least Vista (XP SP3?) but does work, and will continue to work in Linux. Usually once a driver is in the Kernel and near 100% working status, it stays. You have no idea of some of the completely obscure hardware that is support. VLB devices are still supported
    Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly.
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  21. Member 16mmJunkie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 16mmJunkie
    I notice that many of you are using Linux to author, edit, capture video(either analog or DV) and produce DVDs. I'm looking to try a Linux OS for the same purpose, as I have been using XP Pro for all my transfers over the last several years.

    Question: What are you using OS wise and a brief reason would be great. I also see some great programs you have built to make the task effective.

    Thanks

    16mmJunkie

    PS non primary system I wish to use for the Linux:

    Athlon XP 2000 + 1.66 ghz
    soyo dragon lite KT333
    512mb DDR
    1- 80GB HD
    1-120GB HD
    Nivida GeForce mx 440

    1-CD RW Sony
    1-4X lite on DVD R+/R- RW

    ( I currently have a Workstation with 2- 2.8GHZ Dual Intel Xeon processors, 2GB RAMBUS , 500GB HD internal, ATI Radeon 9800 PRO 256MB, 1 2.4XDVD R+ RW, 1 16X DVD DL R-/R+ RW and a INTEL Dual Core 2.8GHZ , 2GB PC 5600, 250GB SATA HD internal , NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT, 1X DVD R+ RW, 8X DVD DL 64 bit system as well which I use both for film transfer and DVD production)
    Well I upgraded my non primary system a little:

    Athlon XP 2000 + 1.66 ghz
    soyo dragon lite KT333
    1GB DDR
    1- 80GB HD
    1-120GB HD
    ATI Raedon 9800 Pro 128 (had this laying around in a plastic bin)
    1-CD RW Sony
    1-4X lite on DVD R+/R- RW

    I also decided to use MEPIS 8 for the time being till I can become well verse in the Linux OS. Very stable OS this is and I can use it to toy with as I learn where everything is in Linux. I actually manual installed my 3 partions (root, home, and swap). Once I become okay with my working knowledge, I'll give AVlinux a shot. It is very nice and all those out there using it like Glen's system. I'm sure I will as well.

    I'd still like to hear from those of you reading this post as to your choice of Linux OS (I see many readers on this post), as the posting kind of drifted from the original post question. I have appreciated Those knowledgable folks who have replied. And as I'm using the Linux OS right now, liking it very much and hoping to create many projects with it.

    16mmJunkie
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    Four years ago next month I was looking for a way to make a DVD to share photos and home movies of our daughter's first (partial) year with friends and family. I had been using Linux for almost a year at the time, but decided it would be more pragmatic to do this on Windows. I had 2 copies of Nero that came with different DVD burners, a copy of Easy CD Creator Gold that I had purchased 2 years prior, and some other similar app that came with something or other. I couldn't get the Easy CD Creator suite to work with my DVD burner (they wanted me to pay for a new version to get the drivers for my new hardware), Nero had all sorts of problems, and so did the no name app. It was a disaster. So I started searching to buy a new application. I tried trial versions of two different apps, which had full functionality but created watermarks on finished products. I spent countless hours learning how these apps worked before giving up and trying the same thing on linux. What surprised me is that once I accepted the fact that I was going to have to do some learning upfront either way, it was far smoother on linux. More importantly (for me) was the fact that once I learned how to do it I didn't have to worry about some software vendor charging a toll down the road because I upgraded hardware, OS, etc.

    I'm sure if I had stuck with it eventually I would have found a good windows app and learned to make it sing and dance. I'm also reasonably confident that I would have shelled out some cash over the last four years for the right to continue practicing what I had learned. I wouldn't underestimate how much of a learning curve is involved in any application and/or OS. It is probably basic psychology to forget how much we had to learn to do something once we get good at it. So moving to linux will have it's own learning curve, and then 1) finding the applications you like and 2) learning how to use them will take additional time. If you are interested in this it can be very rewarding.

    As to the basic question of which distro, the three suggestions I noted in the thread all looked good to me. I use Ubuntu and think if all else fails I would try this one. It has a good combination of ease of use, large user base (helps when you want help, etc), and lots of apps pre packaged. In the end so long as the distro works fine on your hardware and is something you find easy to use, the only other thing that matters is the apps. I guess my main advice would be don't let the distro selection process overwhelm you. If you try a distro and you don't like it, try another. If you try one and it does what you want, spend your time playing with and learning the apps.
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  23. VH Wanderer Ai Haibara's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    Windows has/will/does drop support for hardware devices over time. Example, my Promise PCI ATA 100 adapter card will no longer work with at least Vista (XP SP3?) but does work, and will continue to work in Linux. Usually once a driver is in the Kernel and near 100% working status, it stays. You have no idea of some of the completely obscure hardware that is support. VLB devices are still supported
    That's more the manufacturer's fault than Windows, though. For some reason, it's always seemed to me (as far back as Win3 onward) that hardware manufacturers are just sluggish about writing new drivers or updating the old ones when new versions of Windows are released. Maybe the typical mentality is that since a large number of (Windows users) will often just buy new hardware, it's easier not to bother. (All IMSHO, of course.) I'm sure if someone wanted to write drivers for 'outdated' hardware, it'd work just fine under Vista.

    I'm currently using Puppy Linux (which I like a LOT better than Knoppix, what I was previously using). Not sure how well you can set up a video editing environment on it, as the system I'm using it on is about nine years old, with only 128MB RAM and next to no HD space at the moment, so I haven't really tried. But for my basic uses, it's working great.
    If cameras add ten pounds, why would people want to eat them?
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  24. Member 16mmJunkie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mountain Man

    As to the basic question of which distro, the three suggestions I noted in the thread all looked good to me. I use Ubuntu and think if all else fails I would try this one. It has a good combination of ease of use, large user base (helps when you want help, etc), and lots of apps pre packaged. In the end so long as the distro works fine on your hardware and is something you find easy to use, the only other thing that matters is the apps. I guess my main advice would be don't let the distro selection process overwhelm you. If you try a distro and you don't like it, try another. If you try one and it does what you want, spend your time playing with and learning the apps.

    Thanks for the comment, was straight forward and well put. I like to get information in that way. I agree if it's working learn it, I'm doing that at this time. I'm amazed at how much Ubuntu is just stuffed with apps(kind of like Windows with tons of stuff) and real easy to install apps. I prefer KDE graphic at this point over Gnome(guess it's the Windows in me still fighting back). I'm using the current Linux OS(MEPIS) to get my bumps and bruises, and then will attempt others once I have a better working knowledge of the root, home folders and just the inner workings.

    I'm in full agreement that one of the GREATEST points of Linux is not having to dish out funds more and more over a period of time. There are some very neat apps out there and I'm really toying with the basic one in AV right now. Looking for more creative ones (similar to DVD Lab Pro with Edit Suites type stuff) and will look around for those more catered to intermediate - professional production . I like the tweaking of installation and agree once I get better at it I'll never look back.


    Again Thanks

    16mmJunkie

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  25. Member 16mmJunkie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ai Haibara

    That's more the manufacturer's fault than Windows, though. For some reason, it's always seemed to me (as far back as Win3 onward) that hardware manufacturers are just sluggish about writing new drivers or updating the old ones when new versions of Windows are released. Maybe the typical mentality is that since a large number of (Windows users) will often just buy new hardware, it's easier not to bother. (All IMSHO, of course.) I'm sure if someone wanted to write drivers for 'outdated' hardware, it'd work just fine under Vista.
    Your correct in that if those would take time to write drivers for these still working apps that fit the needs of the consumer it would still prove to be usable. But the unfortunate thing is the greed of those involved. Small minor upgrades to programs so they can profit again and call it "New" and a "Must Have". By Microsofts own omission in the OS 7 ads calls it made simpler, and making money for them. Great Marketing.



    Originally Posted by Ai Haibara
    I'm currently using Puppy Linux (which I like a LOT better than Knoppix, what I was previously using). Not sure how well you can set up a video editing environment on it, as the system I'm using it on is about nine years old, with only 128MB RAM and next to no HD space at the moment, so I haven't really tried. But for my basic uses, it's working great.
    That's one of the neat things about Linux, it works well on older systems giving the consumer the ability to use their current or older system longer than the "Tech World" is dictating or would like them to be able to do. It's a Giant Monster created to suck all the life out of the consumer for their gain. With Linux and the "Sharing World" it has brought forth, it is giving a new light on things. I still play with film and older formats that are still fine, human eye can't tell the difference really when it comes down to viewing. Only the recoginzed eyes of those in the field can. Case and point...when I go to the movies(or at home) I look for imperfections in the film, etc.. while the rest of the family watches the movie. They never see what I see, because they don't care, the story was good and the graphics worked. To them HD, SD, and whatever doesn't matter.

    With Linux I'm able to work with outdated and/or new technology for the same cost! FREE, the other guys(Not only Microsoft) want to provide me with NEW but it shrinks my wallet everytime.

    And Microsoft products are okay, I'm used them for years, and so are Apple. But this is a neat alternative and worth the investment!


    16mmJunkie

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  26. I use Ubuntu. And I love it. But honestly, I haven't made the switch for audio and video (other than just playing it). I still do all my editing in Windows using Adobe Audition, Goldwave, Exact Audio Copy, AviSynth, Virtual Dub, Trader's Little Helper, DVD Decrypter, HuffYuv, and who know how many other apps. I had trouble making Wine do what I wanted for me and finding alternatives for the above programs (save for maybe Audacity).

    But for general daily computer usage, email, Office, web surfing, torrents... it's what I use and love. And I have an Ubuntu file server too. And it's great not having to worry so much about viruses.

    And one by one, a Linux alternative application will eventually replace my Windows apps in due time. But I am still looking for them.


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  27. Get Slack disturbed1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ai Haibara
    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    Windows has/will/does drop support for hardware devices over time. Example, my Promise PCI ATA 100 adapter card will no longer work with at least Vista (XP SP3?) but does work, and will continue to work in Linux. Usually once a driver is in the Kernel and near 100% working status, it stays. You have no idea of some of the completely obscure hardware that is support. VLB devices are still supported
    That's more the manufacturer's fault than Windows, though. For some reason, it's always seemed to me (as far back as Win3 onward) that hardware manufacturers are just sluggish about writing new drivers or updating the old ones when new versions of Windows are released. Maybe the typical mentality is that since a large number of (Windows users) will often just buy new hardware, it's easier not to bother. (All IMSHO, of course.) I'm sure if someone wanted to write drivers for 'outdated' hardware, it'd work just fine under Vista.
    Hmmm, perhaps it is the manufacturers fault. I can see how that's mostly plausible What I don't understand, is how/why these same manufacturers that don't update their Windows' drivers, continue to commit code to the Linux Kernel source tree. Then again, it does cost the manufacturers money to write Windows drivers, not talking man hours, but for driver certifications, and what ever else Microsoft charges. From what I've read, it's even more involved with Windows 7 - which is good for quality in the long run - thinking best case scenario.

    There are some very neat apps out there and I'm really toying with the basic one in AV right now. Looking for more creative ones (similar to DVD Lab Pro with Edit Suites type stuff) and will look around for those more catered to intermediate - professional production . I like the tweaking of installation and agree once I get better at it I'll never look back.
    Everyone has their favorites for anything, rather it be Windows software, or Linux software. Sometimes it is easy find a bunch of stuff of you don't like, or that is just about there, rather than finding what you really want.

    Besides the obivious command line tools (mencoder, mjpegtools ....) Here's a short list of what I like to work with.
    Kino and DVDStyler. Kino to capture and edit my footage from miniDV (yes I still have and use one), DVDStyler is not as wizard driven and eye appealing as TDA, but it gets the job done, is intuitive, and things work. For encoding I don't use either of those programs, but mpeg2enc from mjpegtools. Along with (if needed) some of the filters also from mjpegtools or mencoder with various filters piped to mpeg2enc. To my eyes, and personal goals, mjpegtools gives me exactly what I'm shooting for. Though if I want to create something quick and dirty ffmpeg -i foo -target ntsc-dvd out.vob works too.

    Audio is a complicated chain of tools that includes Jack, a few jack plugins (jack-rack, jamin, jack-eq, LADSPA plugins), ReZound, and Gnome Wave Cleaner when needed. I like playing with Hydrogen, too bad the neighbors nor my girlfriend enjoy it as much as I do

    For play
    KDEnlive, 2ManDVD, tovid/todisc, and Ardour. KDEnlive is not quite there, almost really close. It seems a little touchy to me. Should be looking into Blender, but haven't had the time.
    I really love Ardour, and one of these days I will have a real recording studio - or so I've said for the last 4 or 5 years
    For ripping audio CDs - rubby ripper. To copy dvds, mplayer. Mplayer handles everything I've attempted to backup, even Transformers 2 (mplayer dvdnav://47 -dumpstream -dumpfile tfrmrs2.vob)

    If you are just looking around to have some fun and explore a bit, give Elive a shot. It even comes with that horrendous program Cinelerra ready to go.
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    Hi 16mmJunkie,

    I'm glad you found my comments helpful. One other thought comes to mind rereading your original post and noticing that you use DV. Several posters have mentioned Kino amongst other apps. If you haven't tried this yet, I would do so as soon as possible.

    There are some really powerful editing suites in Linux, and I've tried really hard to love them. I'm sure the issue lies with me, but I have yet to master the interfaces of any of the suites except Kino. I think the problem with the other suites is what I struggled with regarding video editing tools in Windows. When a tool tries to do more and more, the interface can become a challenge to learn. I have no question that if I stuck with it I could figure them out. But for now I prefer to use separate single function apps to do what I want. I find this helps me understand what is really going on, and I can focus on learning one part at a time. However, Kino is the exception of the suites and if it worked with my video files I would probably stop using the single function apps (at least as much). Unfortunately for me Kino is really oriented to the DV world, so when it imports my random access video files it does some unexpected things relating to the aspect ratio. But since you use DV anyway these issues shouldn't come up.
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    Originally Posted by 16mmJunkie
    Your correct in that if those would take time to write drivers for these still working apps that fit the needs of the consumer it would still prove to be usable. But the unfortunate thing is the greed of those involved. Small minor upgrades to programs so they can profit again and call it "New" and a "Must Have". By Microsofts own omission in the OS 7 ads calls it made simpler, and making money for them. Great Marketing.
    I think that's more to combat Apple, since they seem to be actively targeting Apple at the moment (not sure why, as they never REALLY seemed to view Apple as any kind of threat) in their ads and their attempts at a Microsoft Store, as well as the Zune and Windows Mobile phones.

    7 is supposed to be more than just a simple upgrade to Vista, though.

    Originally Posted by 16mmJunkie
    That's one of the neat things about Linux, it works well on older systems giving the consumer the ability to use their current or older system longer than the "Tech World" is dictating or would like them to be able to do. It's a Giant Monster created to suck all the life out of the consumer for their gain. With Linux and the "Sharing World" it has brought forth, it is giving a new light on things. I still play with film and older formats that are still fine, human eye can't tell the difference really when it comes down to viewing. Only the recoginzed eyes of those in the field can. Case and point...when I go to the movies(or at home) I look for imperfections in the film, etc.. while the rest of the family watches the movie. They never see what I see, because they don't care, the story was good and the graphics worked. To them HD, SD, and whatever doesn't matter.

    With Linux I'm able to work with outdated and/or new technology for the same cost! FREE, the other guys(Not only Microsoft) want to provide me with NEW but it shrinks my wallet everytime.
    Heh. I'm using Puppy atop a Win98 box that still works just fine, for the most part. Wonder if I can find versions of Linux for my older pre-Windows computers (a C64 and TI-99/4A)... :P

    I do draw the line at pulling out the old Win3 laptop, though.

    Originally Posted by 16mmJunkie
    And Microsoft products are okay, I'm used them for years, and so are Apple. But this is a neat alternative and worth the investment!
    I use all three platforms.

    Originally Posted by disturbed1
    Hmmm, perhaps it is the manufacturers fault. I can see how that's mostly plausible What I don't understand, is how/why these same manufacturers that don't update their Windows' drivers, continue to commit code to the Linux Kernel source tree. Then again, it does cost the manufacturers money to write Windows drivers, not talking man hours, but for driver certifications, and what ever else Microsoft charges. From what I've read, it's even more involved with Windows 7 - which is good for quality in the long run - thinking best case scenario.
    Well, I've never been able to understand it, either. They probably do know that a lot of Linux users are using old hardware, simply because they can use old hardware with less problems than Windows, without as much hassle. Maybe it is just easier, as you mentioned, to create Linux support for hardware than it is to create a Windows driver, make sure that works with all setups with no conflicts, have Microsoft quality-test/certify/whatever (though that didn't stop devs from releasing a lot of unsigned/beta drivers before Win7). Also, the developers can probably be sure that their code/drivers would be less likely to break in Linux than it would under Windows, after updates (not just major Windows revisions, but any regular updates or service packs)

    That said, the process I've seen over on the Puppy boards for adding Wacom tablet support looks a little intimidating, to me. But, at least even if I don't do it, the wireless mouse part of my Graphire still works with Puppy.

    Anyone know how well Handbrake works under Linux? (Thought I'd add that to the discussion as well.)
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    Originally Posted by Ai Haibara
    Anyone know how well Handbrake works under Linux? (Thought I'd add that to the discussion as well.)
    Well, depends on what your looking for it do

    I use the cli part to convert our mplayer ripped DVDs to mkv. Works fine. My girlfriend liked the GUI version, but switched to cli because it was easier to pass custom options to. It is possible to enable all of these options through the GUI, it's just different strokes for different folks.

    Of course Linux can run on your pre-windows computers. You can even put Linux on a dead badger. Google it if you don't believe me
    Linux _is_ user-friendly. It is not ignorant-friendly and idiot-friendly.
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