HD formats support - Pro editing softwares comparative board

[Turmap]

I've written this to help my fellow video-makers to make their purchases :






Chart PDF file :
pro%20video%20softwares%20comparative%20board.pdf

[filmboss80]

Neither Premiere CS4 nor Vegas Pro require an Intermediate codec for HDV, unless you have a system that does not meet the minimum requirements for the software to run HD.

Those are 2 misleading bits of info I already saw from glancing at your chart.

[edDV]

Yes, for Vegas Pro HDV needs an asterisk. It can be native edited or assisted with an intermediate codec. Same with AVCHD and XDCAM. Vegas Pro also allows use of proxy formats for AVCHD, HDV or XDCAM which is useful for offline editing.

Looks good. Thank you.

[Turmap]

I've modified my chart in order to make it as accurate as possible. Let me know if anything is wrong. I'll correct if necessary. Thanks !

[filmboss80]

You've put in a lot of effort, and it actually looks pretty good. Maybe this could end up as a sticky.

I might suggest on the Intermediate codec comments: instead of "if you want," maybe you could say, "for slower CPUs," or something to that effect.

All-in-all, it should be very helpful for those who get overwhelmed with the HD editing software choices. (I recall from past threads, you've had to deal with your own HD headaches, especially with Premiere.)

Many thanks.

[edDV]

I'm not sure if all these programs edit HDV, XDCAM, AVCHD, AVC-Intra natively (for example FCP). Some additional research would discover which programs require an intermediate codec and which natively edit the format. In most cases today, the intermediate codec will perform better but as processors improve, native editing becomes more practical.

[fitch.j]

Intermediates for HDV should be listed as unnecessary.

[Turmap]

You've put in a lot of effort, and it actually looks pretty good. Maybe this could end up as a sticky.

Have I to say that I do strongly agree with your idea ?

I might suggest on the Intermediate codec comments: instead of "if you want," maybe you could say, "for slower CPUs," or something to that effect.

Some people do not use such codecs because of slow CPUs but because editing with i-frame codecs help to preserve video quality when it is issued from long GOP formats.

I'm not sure if all these programs edit HDV, XDCAM, AVCHD, AVC-Intra natively (for example FCP)

Regarding AVC-intra, FCP is indeed speaking of Native AVC-Intra playback for both AVC-Intra 100 and AVC-Intra 50 ( http://www.apple.com/fr/finalcutstudio/specs/#finalcutpro ).

Could anybody explain what is native codec playback ?

As long as I do not know what it is, I add a "?" to my "yes" regarding Native import/export and to my "unnecessary" regarding the need for an intermediate codec.

Intermediates for HDV should be listed as unnecessary.

Because HDV is a long GOP (Group of pictures) codec it may necessitate an intermediate i-frame codec in order to preserve quality either to relieve processor.

[budwzr]

Vegas 9 has its own intermediary codec, .mxf. It's basically mpeg2 with Sony markers embedded. No need to buy Cineform.

[AjnabiZ]

Can the table be updated to cater to the new releases especially Sony vegas 10

[Cornucopia]

@budwzr,
mxf is NOT a codec, it's a container/fileformat (or more correctly, a Super-container, since it can also house the EDL/timelinelayout of assets). It's based on AAF or OMF. It can contain many kinds of assets (both audio & video) and they can be of various codecs, not just MPEG2.
What's likely happening is that Vegas will ingest, say HDV, and instead of saving the MPEG2video+MP2audio to its native MPEG2_TS, it'll remux it into an MXF. On export, it would remux it back into an MPEG2_TS container.
No recompression or anything, so it's fairly fast, but then ALL assets, no matter the source, are saved in the same kind of container.

@Turmap,
IIRC, AVID MC can also use Cineform as an intermediate, not just DNxHD. It's just that DNxHD comes WITH the AVID, being native to it.
Also, AVID can make use of a similar Mainconcept plugin to the Premiere one to import AVCHD.

Scott

[budwzr]

@budwzr, mxf is NOT a codec, it's a container/fileformat

Yeah, thanks for correcting me. At the time I wrote that, I thought it was something Sony cooked up. I don't use it much, since I got my new laptop, but I remember the smart recompress so I assumed it was Mpeg2.

I guess the reason I thought that was when it's rendering, text will come on the preview window basically pointing out that no recompression is necessary in certain parts, so I thought they had a way to flag or put markers in there.

That's the way Vegas does other stuff, they put timeline markers that can be saved if you use a Sony codec, and you're still compatible with the rest of the world.

My error.

[edDV]

@budwzr, mxf is NOT a codec, it's a container/fileformat

Yeah, thanks for correcting me. At the time I wrote that, I thought it was something Sony cooked up. I don't use it much, since I got my new laptop, but I remember the smart recompress so I assumed it was Mpeg2.

HDV (tape) format is a subset of XDCAM-HD (BD/BE media) and uses a TS wrapper. XDCAM-EX is the flash ram version and uses a MXF wrapper. All use DV or MPeg2 video codecs. Since HDV is compatible with XDCAM, Sony Vegas is probably handling HDV as XDCAM internally, hence the MXF wrapper. Vegas will smart render all XDCAM/HDV versions natively. I copied this chart from the XDCAM Wikipedia article and highlighted HDV features.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XDCAM

[rdeffley]

I wouldn't really consider Sony Vegas to be a professional editing software. That is on the same end of the spectrum as Premiere which is the upper end of hobby editing programs. For me, professional editing programs would be Avid Media Composer or Final Cut Pro.

[racer-x]

Why dig up and old outdated thread?

One man's opinion is another man's toilet paper.......

[smrpix]

Why dig up and old outdated thread?

It's okay. His knowledge of current NLEs appears to be contemporaneous with the start date of this thread.

[rdeffley]

Well it is stuck at the top of the forum. Also, it's my first time in the editing forum and reading the thread. So it isn't outdated to me.

Years ago before I went to post production school, I was cutting on Vegas 5. At the time, Vegas and Premiere were considered two of the nicer hobby editing programs. Yet, the two programs used in the industry were Avid and Final Cut Pro. But, I've been out of the editing game now for 4-5 years. So there's probably been a lot of advancements I'm not aware of. With that said, is Vegas actually getting more exposure and being used in the industry?

[poisondeathray]

Well it is stuck at the top of the forum. Also, it's my first time in the editing forum and reading the thread. So it isn't outdated to me.

Years ago before I went to post production school, I was cutting on Vegas 5. At the time, Vegas and Premiere were considered two of the nicer hobby editing programs. Yet, the two programs used in the industry were Avid and Final Cut Pro. But, I've been out of the editing game now for 4-5 years. So there's probably been a lot of advancements I'm not aware of. With that said, is Vegas actually getting more exposure and being used in the industry?

It depends on which "industry" you are referring to, or at least which segment

"Professional" just means "paid", so that could mean a 1 man band, or it could mean a big budget feature with dozens of people and their assisants

For high budget, Hollywood, Avid is still king. FCP is still used by many post houses, but Adobe PP is gaining lots of ground, especially in areas like broadcast . Very few places use Vegas.

Apple made a big OOPS with FCPX, and released basically a beta. It was buggy and lacked many features, basically a downgrade. Many former users were turned off and migrated to Adobe. To be fair , FCPX is vastly improved with updates, don't let the "consumerish" price fool you

But Adobe introduced a pay per month scheme recently, with "Creative Cloud". So that had lots of former users move to other software as well.

It doesn't matter what you use. They all have pros/cons but a good editor can use any of them and get the job done. It's just a tool in the toolbox


(This shouldn't be "stuck" at the top IMO)

[Cornucopia]

And Vegas may be a "one man band" kind of app, but it IS used by many pros internally. Don't discount freelancers - they take up a huge market segment. There's also Edius, though it doesn't seem to be used as much in this country. And Lightworks for some. That's about all that's used professionally that I hear of (not counting integrated hardware-based solutions such as those seen at networks/newsrooms, which are often Sony, Panny, JVC or GV centered).

Speed Razor anyone?

Scott

[rdeffley]

Thanks for the cool post poison. Yeah Hollywood/entertainment industry is what I was referring to. That's why the idea of Vegas being used was funny to me.

My goal was to cut movie trailers or at least settle for some other form of short form work. I almost landed a staff job @ Studio City promo house out of school. The funny thing is that I didn't even apply. One of the career counselors submitted my reel. Out of 400 people I made it down to the final five and three spots were open. I was one of the two that got cut. After that, I came back home because I was broke (rent/tuition). Ended up taking a job at a gym part time while searching for editing work. Wound up becoming a full time personal trainer and left the editing game behind. My skills are beyond rusty because I haven't cut anything in years. But I'm starting to get the itch to cut fan videos again just for fun.