Need Advice on Upgrading CPU

[AuroEdge]

I'm wanting to upgrade the Socket A, AMD processor on my old computer but am not sure what is compatible and what is not. I have a GVC AR862 (VIA KT133 chipset) Mainboard. Every resource I've found lists the Front Side Bus at 200MHz for the motherboard. What confuses me is that some of those resources say that it only supports up to Athlon 1.3GHz. There are faster Athlons to include the Athlon-Barton which has a clock speed 2200MHz at FSB 200MHz (400 MT/s).

Here's the excerpt from Wikipedia that confused me: "The Athlon utilizes the Alpha 21264's EV6 bus architecture with double data rate (DDR) technology. This means that at 100 MHz the Athlon front side bus actually transfers at a rate similar to a 200 MHz single data rate bus (referred to as 200 MT/s), which was superior to the method used on Intel's Pentium III (with SDR bus speeds of 100 MHz and 133 MHz)."

Does this mean I am limited to a CPU with 100MHz (200MT/s) FSB, which would be an AMD Athlon Thuderbird?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon
http://www.bcmcom.com/tech/GT133KT/GT133KT.htm

[minidv2dvd]

a cpu old enough to fit in that motherboard is a turtle compared to today's chips. it's about 10 years old, and i don't think the m.b. manufacturer is in business anymore.

this is what it could use.
From 600MHz to 1.3GHz
AMD Duron CPU up to 1Ghz
AMD Athlon CPU up to 1.3Ghz

AMD Socket A

socket A chips aren't made anymore, but you might find some used pulls.

[redwudz]

The Barton version CPUs usually required a BIOS upgrade, which may not be available to your MB. They also ran very hot.

If I remember correctly, the double data rate is referring to clocking twice on the same pulse, the up-going and down-going part. Similar to DDR RAM. This can double the through data rate without raising the clock speed. (Or something like that. It's been a long time since I used Socket A CPUs.)

But minidv2dvd's info sounds good. You might look around on Ebay for a bit faster CPU if you really want to do this. Any upgraded CPU may also need a BIOS upgrade, but that's just a guess.

[wulf109]

You can buy a new E3200 Celeron C2D and motherboard for $100.00 today. I think you should consider dumping your socket A system.

[ocgw]

You can buy a new E3200 Celeron C2D and motherboard for $100.00 today. I think you should consider dumping your socket A system.

I 2nd that!!

Cheapest AMD route I would recommend

Foxconn mobo $45USD (5 eggs @ newegg)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186173

Athlon II X2 Regor $63USD (5 eggs @ newegg)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103688

Cheapest Intel route I would recommend

Gigabyte mobo $70USD (5 eggs @ newegg)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128396

E3200 Wolfdale $53USD (5 eggs @ newegg)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116265

ocgw

peace

[lacywest]

I've got two of these mobos and I've got one in a ACER PC and it is working just fine. Works with AMD AM3 CPUs ... 65watt CPUs are the limit. 46 bucks at Newegg.

Im using Kingston DDR2 800 memory in it ... works great. The sticks are the slim skinny ones ... they barely stickup from the memory slots. Would seem that this would increase air flow around the insides of the enclosure.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130187

MSI K9N6PGM2-V AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
AM3 CPU Ready - up to 65W

Model Brand MSI
Model K9N6PGM2-V
Supported CPU
CPU Socket Type AM2+/AM2
CPU Type Phenom / Athlon 64 X2 / Athlon 64 / Sempron
FSB 1000MHz Hyper Transport (2000 MT/s)
Chipsets
North Bridge NVIDIA GeForce 6100
Memory
Number of Memory Slots 2×240pin
Memory Standard DDR2 800
Maximum Memory Supported 4GB
Expansion Slots
PCI Express x16 1
PCI Express x1 1
PCI Slots 2
Storage Devices
PATA 1 x ATA100 2 Dev. Max
SATA 3Gb/s 2
SATA RAID 0/1
Onboard Video
Onboard Video Chipset NVIDIA GeForce 6100
Onboard Audio
Audio Channels 8 Channels
Onboard LAN
Max LAN Speed 10/100Mbps
Rear Panel Ports
PS/2 2
COM 1
LPT 1
Video Ports D-Sub
USB 4 x USB 2.0
Audio Ports 6 Ports
Onboard USB
Onboard USB 4 x USB 2.0
Physical Spec
Form Factor Micro ATX
Dimensions 9.6" x 8.6"
Power Pin 24 Pin

[budz]

I'd recommend getting a low end Intel wolfdale E5200 or E6300. Both are good solid low end cpu's. I use the Intel E5200 cpu in my media pc. If you're into overclocking both of those cpu's overclock well using the right mobo. The G31M-ES2L micro atx mobo is only $ 52.99 which overclocks my E8400 to 3.60ghz.
Gigabyte G31M-ES2L, mobo $52.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128357

Intel Wolfdale E5200 cpu, $67.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116072

Intel Wolfdale E6300 cpu, $87.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116091
Use coupon code EMCMLLM65 then the price is $77.99
coupon code expires on 10/3/09 in 9 hours 15 minutes
http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/Oct-0-2009/72HOUR01/index-landing.html?nm_mc=EMC-...C-IGNEFL100109

Just my 2 cents!

[AuroEdge]

It's too bad the person I'm trying to do a favor for just wants to do a cheap upgrade on their machine so they can surf the web and use excel. Otherwise I would do a bigger upgrade. I've never owned an AMD personally so I didn't know about them using DDR in the front side bus architecture.

I'm still not 100% certain that I am limited to using an Athlon with 100MHz FSB. It would seem that a manufacturer making a motherboard for use with such CPUs would make it clear that when they say "200MHz Front Side Bus speed" that speed is either actually the TRUE rated speed or not. Oh well. From the fine program CPU-z for the current setup "Multiplier x FSB = 7.5 x 100.2 MHz | Rated Bus speed = 200.4 MHz". I wonder if this is another of the weird products of the old days when AMD and Intel competed?

[ocgw]

It's too bad the person I'm trying to do a favor for just wants to do a cheap upgrade on their machine so they can surf the web and use excel. Otherwise I would do a bigger upgrade. I've never owned an AMD personally so I didn't know about them using DDR in the front side bus architecture.

I'm still not 100% certain that I am limited to using an Athlon with 100MHz FSB. It would seem that a manufacturer making a motherboard for use with such CPUs would make it clear that when they say "200MHz Front Side Bus speed" that speed is either actually the TRUE rated speed or not. Oh well. From the fine program CPU-z for the current setup "Multiplier x FSB = 7.5 x 100.2 MHz | Rated Bus speed = 200.4 MHz". I wonder if this is another of the weird products of the old days when AMD and Intel competed?

It isn't any different today, clock speed and bus speed are 2 different things the latest DDR3 doesn't actually have a clock speed 1333/1600/2000/, they have several operations per clock cycle, and I know you don't think ATI gfx card GDDR5 memory actually operates @ 4Ghz lol

as always clock speed means nothing, bandwith is everything

ps. back in the day Intel had a "quad pumped" fsb too

ocgw

peace

[AuroEdge]

I bought an AMD 1300 (1.75V) that when installed, the PC wouldn't even output video or do anything. I returned it and bought an AMD 1300 (1.7V). Now the BIOS will make it for a few seconds but then fail and freeze. I can get it to the BIOS setup page or partway through the POST. I've unplugged as many things from the 400W power supply with no success. The Duron currently installed is 1.6V so I'm really confused how 0.1V difference at such a low power level is the culprit. They're both 200MHz FSB so they're the right match.

What I'm thinking is that this might be a BIOS or motherboard revision issue. Since this PC is a MicronPC I can't get any support since they completely liquidated earlier this year. What I have been able to deduce is this:
-Mobo is a GVC AR862 manufactured by BCM as GT133KT
-The BIOS is the latest version however it is Micron's revision
-I can't find any info on Micron's revision of the motherboard

I know the risks involved but I'm willing to bet there's a limitation on either CPU speed or voltage put in place by the Micron BIOS. I may try BCM's BIOS instead of Micron's. Is this even worth trying?

[deadrats]

I'm wanting to upgrade the Socket A, AMD processor on my old computer but am not sure what is compatible and what is not. I have a GVC AR862 (VIA KT133 chipset) Mainboard. Every resource I've found lists the Front Side Bus at 200MHz for the motherboard. What confuses me is that some of those resources say that it only supports up to Athlon 1.3GHz. There are faster Athlons to include the Athlon-Barton which has a clock speed 2200MHz at FSB 200MHz (400 MT/s).

Here's the excerpt from Wikipedia that confused me: "The Athlon utilizes the Alpha 21264's EV6 bus architecture with double data rate (DDR) technology. This means that at 100 MHz the Athlon front side bus actually transfers at a rate similar to a 200 MHz single data rate bus (referred to as 200 MT/s), which was superior to the method used on Intel's Pentium III (with SDR bus speeds of 100 MHz and 133 MHz)."

Does this mean I am limited to a CPU with 100MHz (200MT/s) FSB, which would be an AMD Athlon Thuderbird?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athlon
http://www.bcmcom.com/tech/GT133KT/GT133KT.htm

it looks like the fastest you can go is the 1.3ghz athlon:

http://www.esaitech.com/commerce/ccp52197-gvc-ar862-via-kt-133-vt8363-amd-socket-a---4...62-1112365.htm


it looks like a socket a 1.3 ghz athlon will run about $50, assuming you can actually find one:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=A1300AMS3B&cat=CPU

the "thunderbirds" used either a 133 or 166 actual mhz fsb (266 or 333 mhz effective) and the bartons used a 166 or 200 actual mhz fsb (333 or 400 mhz effective), so there is no way that you can run those on a motherboard that uses the kt133 chipset.

basically you're limited to the fastest athlon that uses a 100 mhz fsb (200 mhz effective).

in all honesty, it looks like your friend is painting you into a corner, he wants an upgrade, wants it extremely cheap and he wants to just upgrade his existing cpu. i would tell him that i can't help him out given those parameters and let him use what he has now.

[AuroEdge]

I actually have the CPU (A1300APS3B) installed as we speak. It shows the MicronPC splash logo and then proceeds to lock up and frustrate me.

I have a better understanding than I did before of the components involved. I may reflash the BIOS with a Micron update and see what happens. If that fails, which I'm sure it will, I might try using the generic update from BCM themselves.

Do I need to apply thermal grease every time I switch out the CPUs to test them? I would only run them for maximum 10 seconds. Also, is there any past successes in using the manufacturer's BIOS versus the OEM companies revision? I'm guessing overclockers would know a bit on that.

[minidv2dvd]

what you need is one of these.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/TYPE-Athlon.html
it's the oldest k7 thunderbird athlon NOT the athlon xp.

avoid the 1.4ghz, they burn up faster than you can replace them if you indeed actually find one.

[minidv2dvd]

ok so the one you have is listed. yes thermal grease is required each time. they burn up and fry totally quickly, unlike today's cpu's that just slow down if they overheat.

you may have to reset the bios in between each cpu change. unplug from power and remove the backup battery for a few seconds. then try a new cpu.

[AuroEdge]

what you need is one of these.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/TYPE-Athlon.html
it's the oldest k7 thunderbird athlon NOT the athlon xp.

avoid the 1.4ghz, they burn up faster than you can replace them if you indeed actually find one.

I have the A1300APS3B (T-Bird 1.3 GHz). I'm finding a lot of places that contradict each other saying the GT133KT only supports up 1.0GHz and the others saying 1.3GHz. The only 2 differences I can find between any of the CPUs on there, the 200MHz FSB models, are the clock multiplier obviously and the power consumption which is between 1.7V and 1.75V. Frustrating? Yeah.

Using my somewhat solid Google skills I've found some interesting stuff. I found this site http://home.hiwaay.net/~ellisc/Andara/ where they have a custom BIOS written for this chipset and coincidentally I think the same motherboard model too. This has really turned into more of a learning experience than a favor. Based on that Andara site I found it appears that they've had no problems with floating between the various BIOS updates.

[minidv2dvd]

the motherboard must support the specific cpu, not just the type. it's hard to get exact info on 10 year old equipment, especially when the m.b. manufacturer went out of business long ago. a bios flash might work, but there is always the chance it will brick the board and make it totally useless.

somewhere in the "retired" pile i have a k7 1.3 and motherboard. i'll dig it out tomorrow and see what it was.

[minidv2dvd]

found the old amd pile. all that's left are a functional K6 600 on an amd board and an AMD Athlon 3200+ XP Barton Socket A 462 AXDA3200DKV4E on a soyo kt600 dragon ultra board. sorry the k7 must have been given away .

one thing to check for on your motherboard is bad capacitors. they were very common in that era. look for cylindrical devices with rounded tops rather than the normal flat top, or fluid coming out of them. both the above board died from bad caps.

[ocgw]

found the old amd pile. all that's left are a functional K6 600 on an amd board and an AMD Athlon 3200+ XP Barton Socket A 462 AXDA3200DKV4E on a soyo kt600 dragon ultra board. sorry the k7 must have been given away .

one thing to check for on your motherboard is bad capacitors. they were very common in that era. look for cylindrical devices with rounded tops rather than the normal flat top, or fluid coming out of them. both the above board died from bad caps.

Barton XP 3200+ was the last greatest example of the 462 pin, Barton core XP line

The only argueablely greater 462 pin Barton core XP cpu was the 3000+M (mobile cpu), equal of the 3200+ @ lower voltage, favored by some enthuisiasts for overclocking (like me)

I am even running an experiment where I run Win 7 on a 3000+M (1GB )that I sold to a friend last year (experiment not cost)

ocgw

peace

[minidv2dvd]

the 3200dkv4e had the faster 200/400 fsb speed. it was a nice product for the time.

[AuroEdge]

I think I have this figured out. The chipset manufacturer website lists the VIA GT133KT at supporting up to 1GHz/200MHzFSB Athlons even though they were produced up to 1.4GHz. There are a number of cookie cutter cheap-o websites that list it taking up to 1.3GHz Athlons. But, the most likely information I've found is that the motherboard, being a MicroATX, is limited by the low number of capacitors and not a BIOS situation. "The mosfet and capacitor setup on the motherboard looks very small compared to the ABit kt7, which leads me to believe the 1 GHz limit on this board is due to hardware and not the bios." This is all best guess.



And while they all generally have the same Vcore value, the faster CPUs draw more power than the capacitors can provide in some instances? That would explain why the PC will start POST but never make it past that. Also explains why when I tried the 1.75V model the PC would immediately freeze but the power saving version, 1.7V, would make it a bit further. None of the capacitors look buldged or damaged so hopefully the Athlon 1000 I'm getting will work fine.