Suitable PSU.

[A Traveller]

Hi All.

I am looking for a good PSU which would be suitable for a computer with the following.

Phenom dual core 3 GHz processor, 4 Gb DDR3 1600MHz RAM, Geforce GTX260 896Mb graphics card and dual large screen monitors. The computer is not for gaming, however, if there is a PSU that can handle the occasional game as well, that would be preferred.

Thanks.

[rallynavvie]

How many hard drives? A good brand 500W PSU should be fine for that machine. You could probably get away with even less if you wanted. The key is to get a good PSU rather than just rely on wattage numbers. PC Power & Cooling, Antec, or Seasonic are good brands to start off with.

[minidv2dvd]

i'd add corsair and ocz psu's to rally's list.

[johns0]

With that setup you need at least a good quality 600w or higher psu if you are gonna do any kinda gaming and or hd encoding,500w just isnt enough for a 260gtx for gaming and encoding.

[rallynavvie]

500w just isnt enough for a 260gtx for gaming and encoding.

Are we doing both simultaneously?

500W from a solid manufacturer is more than enough, even for the GTX260. Unless you're running 8x HDDs or something crazy there shouldn't be any issues. It'll help to get a PSU with one big 12v rail though so you don't have to manage any of that rubbish. Even though the manufacturer may recommend a minimum 500W supply I'm sure they're hedging against those cheap PSUs that say 600W+ but flake out at sustained loads. But if you still want to spend more on a higher-wattage PSU then at least don't go cheap and make sure to get a high-efficiency 80+ unit.

[poisondeathray]

Even if you do both, full GPU+CPU load for that rig with 3-4 HD will run ~400W from the wall

But you want to run your PSU at around ~50-60% load for max efficiency. Not only is this more efficient, it runs cooler and quieter in this range.

Yes you can run it no problems with a quality 500W PSU, but a 600-700W would be better for this reason. But if the OP doesn't game often, then you can use the smaller PSU, and it will also be less expensive

[A Traveller]

Thanks for all the helpful advice. It is really appreciated.

I am not sure how how many hard drives I will have. I will definitely have more than one 'separate' (ie. non-RAID) drives, however, RAID is something which I MAY consider as well.

I don't know what HD Encoding is, so I can't say if my pc will be doing that or not or at the same time as gaming. There will definitely be HD playing.

I will see if I can find a PSU which meets the advice I have received here.

[ocgw]

i'd add corsair and ocz psu's to rally's list.

You can add Silverstone to the list of recommended psu manufacturers, and like rallynavvie said, go w/ the single massive 12v rail

ocgw

peace

[rallynavvie]

I am not sure how how many hard drives I will have. I will definitely have more than one 'separate' (ie. non-RAID) drives, however, RAID is something which I MAY consider as well.

You're on the right track by having the OS and applications on a single HDD and putting your data on others. I don't really ever recommend RAID for consumer use; it is almost never warranted for those use cases. When you consider the costs/benefits your money could be better spent elsewhere. From the sounds of what you're doing with this desktop you would be better off just leaving any additional HDD on their own.

[A Traveller]

Hi. Thanks for the further advice.

So, what would be classed as a 'single massive 12v rail'?

I have also come across the following ones. Any of them stand out from the rest?

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/PowerSupply/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=2793
Around £65

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/650w-Silverpower-(Seasonic)-SP-SS650HT-Green-Power-80-Plus-CertifiedIntel-ATX-12V-6Serial-ATA
Around £65

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/520W-Coolermaster-Real-Power-M520-Modular-PSU-2xPCI-E-80-Efficiency
Around £65

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/Home/Product/39359/Tagan-PSU-SuperRock-600W
Around £72


Thanks.

[ocgw]

Here is an example

Instead of 4x18a 12v rails where 1 rail may be overloaded, and another goes unused, this one has a single 52a 12v rail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005

ocgw

peace

[A Traveller]

Thanks ocgw.

Ok, I think I understand it a little better now, but while I was researching the topic, I came across the following statement at xsreviews.co.uk.

"However, a single rail with a lot of amps running through it requires careful monitoring and thicker cables. The more power running through a single transformer in the power supply means more heat in one area, rather than two smaller transformers. A sufficient cooling system must be installed to cope with the heat."

Does this mean that if I go for a single large 12v rail, I will have to spend even more on a 'sufficient cooling system'? If so, what kind of cooling system would be required and at what cost?

What kind of price am I looking at for a PSU with one large 12v rail and which also meets my other requirements? I have also found the following http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=op650&area=usa. It's over £80 though!

Thanks.

[ocgw]

Thanks ocgw.

Ok, I think I understand it a little better now, but while I was researching the topic, I came across the following statement at xsreviews.co.uk.

"However, a single rail with a lot of amps running through it requires careful monitoring and thicker cables. The more power running through a single transformer in the power supply means more heat in one area, rather than two smaller transformers. A sufficient cooling system must be installed to cope with the heat."

Does this mean that if I go for a single large 12v rail, I will have to spend even more on a 'sufficient cooling system'? If so, what kind of cooling system would be required and at what cost?

What kind of price am I looking at for a PSU with one large 12v rail and which also meets my other requirements? I have also found the following http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=op650&area=usa. It's over £80 though!

Thanks.

He is talking about the design of the psu, nothing for the consumer to worry about

They only made limitations on the size of 12v rails in the name of safety in the first place, and have now relaxed that requirement because it is unnecessary w/ modern psu design

Sorry, can't access that link

ocgw

peace

[rallynavvie]

"However, a single rail with a lot of amps running through it requires careful monitoring and thicker cables. The more power running through a single transformer in the power supply means more heat in one area, rather than two smaller transformers. A sufficient cooling system must be installed to cope with the heat."

Those are some pretty wild and crazy assumptions. First of all a single rail requires less supervision because you don't need to worry about load-balancing your system. And cable size? Really? And just because there's a single 12v rail doesn't mean there's a single transformer. That's crazy. And wouldn't more electronics to provide more rails also equal more heat? If any of that is true it's on such a ridiculously small scale that it's not even worth speaking of.

[A Traveller]

Ok, thanks.

ocgw, I have done some EXTREMELY technically challenging testing on that link I provided and am happy to report that I have managed to resolve the issue. The problem is that I had included a full stop at the end of the link because it was the end of my sentence. Try the link again but without the full stop at the end. You could simply click the link and when the page loads, delete the full stop in the address bar and reload....or could just copy and paste. You see, I DO know SOMETHING! Haha.

rallynavvie, here is the link where I found that info. It is the second last paragraph on the page http://www.xsreviews.co.uk/glossary/power-supplies/multiple-power-supply-rails-explained/

Is it worth my time searching for a good PSU around £50 with a large single 12v rail or is that unrealistic? Alright then, £60! These aren't easy to find unless you go through each one at any given website.

[rallynavvie]

Hopefully some of the Britons will chime in with good resellers because I can't recall any off the top of my head. I think as long as you stick with the manufacturer's mentioned here you should be able to find something in that price range.

[ocgw]

Ok, thanks.

ocgw, I have done some EXTREMELY technically challenging testing on that link I provided and am happy to report that I have managed to resolve the issue. The problem is that I had included a full stop at the end of the link because it was the end of my sentence. Try the link again but without the full stop at the end. You could simply click the link and when the page loads, delete the full stop in the address bar and reload....or could just copy and paste. You see, I DO know SOMETHING! Haha.

rallynavvie, here is the link where I found that info. It is the second last paragraph on the page http://www.xsreviews.co.uk/glossary/power-supplies/multiple-power-supply-rails-explained/

Is it worth my time searching for a good PSU around £50 with a large single 12v rail or is that unrealistic? Alright then, £60! These aren't easy to find unless you go through each one at any given website.

It is not a bad explanation, but possibly misleading, main thing is youi don't have to worry about cooling it, all the cooling it needs is built into it

ocgw

peace

[rcubed]

A Traveler,
I have been happy with the following brand of PSs. They feature supplies with modular cables. That way you only install the power cables you need and don't clutter up the case. Other manufactures also offer modular cables. They are a little pricier, but quality and reliably should also be considered. Not often but a PS failure can damage other equipment.

http://www.seasonicusa.com/

rcubed

[rallynavvie]

Someone was telling me something about modular PSUs having issues or weaknesses. Not sure if they were referring to modular which use multiple 12v rails or not. I agree that modular is certainly handy but there are always creative ways to tuck away the unused cables. I've been doing it for years and you'd never even know there were unused cables in my case (though part of that is because I use almost every endpoint).

[johns0]

The weak point modular psu have is they have more resistance between the plugins and that causes problems when the contacts get weak due to movement.

[ocgw]

The weak point modular psu have is they have more resistance between the plugins and that causes problems when the contacts get weak due to movement.

hmmmmm...........

I use a Silverstone modular psu in my main PC, it has really tight, solid removeable connectors, just as solid as the main 24 pin mobo connector, solid enough that if I were moving them around a lot it wouldn't hurt them, and I don't move them around a lot

My first modular psu so I can't speak for other psu manufacturers build quality

Silverstone doesn't sell any junk

ocgw

peace

[rallynavvie]

I use a Silverstone modular psu in my main PC, it has really tight, solid removeable connectors, just as solid as the main 24 pin mobo connector, solid enough that if I were moving them around a lot it wouldn't hurt them, and I don't move them around a lot

Moving them around a lot would do it actually. You mentioned they're as solid as the ATX connector but even that connector will wear if you keep removing it and plugging it back in. I think this is only going to be an issue if you're in there moving things around a lot and wearing on the connectors. Even the connectors themselves can degrade over time, albeit long periods of time, which can be accelerated by environmental conditions (like humidity or ocean air). I know some system builders that go the distance and use dialectric grease around their connectors to prevent environmental contamination, though personally I think that's going a bit far :P

[ocgw]

I use a Silverstone modular psu in my main PC, it has really tight, solid removeable connectors, just as solid as the main 24 pin mobo connector, solid enough that if I were moving them around a lot it wouldn't hurt them, and I don't move them around a lot

Moving them around a lot would do it actually. You mentioned they're as solid as the ATX connector but even that connector will wear if you keep removing it and plugging it back in. I think this is only going to be an issue if you're in there moving things around a lot and wearing on the connectors. Even the connectors themselves can degrade over time, albeit long periods of time, which can be accelerated by environmental conditions (like humidity or ocean air). I know some system builders that go the distance and use dialectric grease around their connectors to prevent environmental contamination, though personally I think that's going a bit far :P

I was actually thinking you meant "moving them around a lot" as just connecting and reconnecting the connectors to the PC's hardware lol

Why would someone be moving the connectors to the psu itself around a lot?

ps. modular connectors really are an advantage if you think about it, if they do wear out on the PC end you can always get replacements

ocgw

peace

[A Traveller]

Thanks everyone. I do move hard drives around quite a lot at the moment. Don't know if I will do so with the new pc though! From what I read recently, I also gathered that the advantage of non-modular was that it doesn't have quality of connection issues at the PSU end of things.

[ocgw]

Thanks everyone. I do move hard drives around quite a lot at the moment. Don't know if I will do so with the new pc though! From what I read recently, I also gathered that the advantage of non-modular was that it doesn't have quality of connection issues at the PSU end of things.

The "quality of connection" issue is greatly exagerated, over blown by companies that don't sell modular psus, it is really a non-issue

Think about it, any psu you buy connector can wear out if you abuse it, but which is easier to fix, modular or non-modular? w/ modular if there isn't already extras included (like Silverstone does) and you can't be bothered replacing the connectors you can just order more cables

I have owned a beautiful Silverstone single 12v rail psu for almost a year now, have swapped drives around a bit too, and couldn't be happier w/ it, good 1's are made to last

I have ( 8 ) 3.5" and ( 1 ) 5" drives in my HTPC and a gfx card that takes (2) pwr connectors and I still have a bag full of cables left over LOL

IMHO the best psu to buy is a massive single 12v rail modular psu, they are just expensive

I paid $160USD for my Silverstone 650 watt 54a single 12v rail modular psu (5 eggs @ newegg) and then augmented it w/ a $50USD Thermaltake 250 watt 21a (2) 12v rail 5" bay dedicated gfx card psu (which is slaved to the Silverstone)

There is no "advantage" to a non-modular psu, having a modular psu is "advantagious"

SILVERSTONE DECATHLON DA650 650W ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS 12V CrossFire Ready Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256021

Thermaltake W0099RU 250 Watts (Peak Load: 300Watts) ATX12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Active PFC Graphic Card power supply - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153037

1 day I will just break down and buy a 1000+ watt 80a+ single 12v rail psu for about $250USD, and free up a 5" bay for a 9th HDD in a 3rd hot swap sata enclosure

ocgw

peace

[A Traveller]

Thanks ocgw.

Update - I was looking at the OP650 and noticed that it had a 'GPU Support List'. The graphics card I stated in my original post is not listed next to the OP650 in the list.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/downloads/PSU/GPU-supportlist.pdf

What does this mean? Do I have to check to see if my graphics card is 'supported' for each PSU I consider?

I was also considering
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/650w-Silverpower-(Seasonic)-SP-SS650HT-Green-Power-80-Plus-CertifiedIntel-ATX-12V-6Serial-ATA

It does not have a single large 12v rail. This person seems to to think that a single 12v rail is not really needed in most cases http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990

I thought a PSU would have been the easiest component to choose when buying a new pc. It's giving me the most headache!!!! Haha. I may go for the Silverpoint due to the price difference. Don't want to spend too much.

Thanks.

[ocgw]

Thanks ocgw.

Update - I was looking at the OP650 and noticed that it had a 'GPU Support List'. The graphics card I stated in my original post is not listed next to the OP650 in the list.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/downloads/PSU/GPU-supportlist.pdf

What does this mean? Do I have to check to see if my graphics card is 'supported' for each PSU I consider?

I was also considering
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/650w-Silverpower-(Seasonic)-SP-SS650HT-Green-Power-80-Plus-CertifiedIntel-ATX-12V-6Serial-ATA

It does not have a single large 12v rail. This person seems to to think that a single 12v rail is not really needed in most cases http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990

I thought a PSU would have been the easiest component to choose when buying a new pc. It's giving me the most headache!!!! Haha. I may go for the Silverpoint due to the price difference. Don't want to spend too much.

Thanks.

That OP650 can run a "top of the line" GTX295, so it should have no problem running a GTX260 to high OC

btw Some argue that the psu is the most important part of a PC, others argue that the mobo is the most important part of a PC, definitely the psu has a huge impact on reliability or overclocking

The psu may not be the most "glamorous part of the PC, but it is 1 of the most important parts of the PC

ocgw

peace

[A Traveller]

Thanks again ocgw.

[rallynavvie]

btw Some argue that the psu is the most important part of a PC, others argue that the mobo is the most important part of a PC, definitely the psu has a huge impact on reliability or overclocking

The psu may not be the most "glamorous part of the PC, but it is 1 of the most important parts of the PC

The reason I always stress that is because if your PSU dies in spectacular fashion there is a good chance it is going to take everything powered by it with it into the PC afterlife. Compare that to a mobo where a failure may take out your CPUs and memory but leave your HDDs untouched.

[ocgw]

btw Some argue that the psu is the most important part of a PC, others argue that the mobo is the most important part of a PC, definitely the psu has a huge impact on reliability or overclocking

The psu may not be the most "glamorous part of the PC, but it is 1 of the most important parts of the PC

The reason I always stress that is because if your PSU dies in spectacular fashion there is a good chance it is going to take everything powered by it with it into the PC afterlife. Compare that to a mobo where a failure may take out your CPUs and memory but leave your HDDs untouched.

"never truer words have been spoken"

ocgw

peace