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  1. Hello All.

    I have a problem with DL disc, i made a master (iso file burnt with imgburn), verify was ok, the master was checked in many set-top players etc... so all ok. Media was Verbatim +R DL, made in Singapore, MKM-003-00

    A few days ago thousands of copies came from a replication house and some of them won't play in set-top players (all ok on computers). "NO DISC" message (the client said, i don't have a single copy to test)

    What could be wrong?
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  2. Banned
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    Some set-top DVD players either won't play any DL media or they will only play the first layer. This is rarely a problem with newer players, but I have personally seen it on older players. Your client may simply have a crappy DVD player. Good luck in trying to tell your client that. Most people refuse to believe it, so don't be surprised if he blames you because "all the discs I buy in the stores always work" even though that has nothing to do with why your DVD won't work for him.
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  3. Was the DVD+R DL master bit set to DVD-ROM. If not, I could see this "no Disc" happening on older DVD players as the other responder said.

    I have had good luck with DVD+R DL bitset to DVD-ROM book type myself. Of course you need a burner that supports book type bitsetting. I know ImgBurn supports it in its settings options. 8)
    The OldeMan
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  4. If I needed thousands of copies of a DVD, I would get pressed DVDs, not burned. As noted above, many players will not play burned DL media properly.

    Not sure if DVD pressing services are available in Slovenia, but in the US, lots of companies can make pressed DVDs.
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  5. Member solarfox's Avatar
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    Actually, that's a question which isn't clear from the original post:

    wzt, are the copies which came from the duplication house burned copies, i.e. did the duplication house record them onto DVD+R/DL blanks? Or are they pressed copies, i.e. stamped out like a standard commercial-release disc?

    If they are burned DVD+R/DL media, then there could be compatibility issues with some set-top players. (Or, they could have substituted some cheap DL media instead of using Verbatim, or used counterfeit media which is labeled Verbatim but isn't.)

    If they are pressed discs, then you may either have had an authoring error on your master disc which is causing playback problems, or there could be manufacturing flaws in the discs themselves.
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  6. Thanks for your answers.

    Yes the question was not clear - DVDs are pressed, not burned, it is a commercial release. Bitset of DVD+R DL master was DVD-ROM.
    I don't think that master DVD had an authoring error, i made many commercial masters for the replication in the past years (with the same software and settings) and never had such a problem.

    I test all DVDs before sending to a replication house and this DVD+R DL master worked 100% on all of my set-top players. But now some pressed discs do not work...

    What could be the possible authoring error on the master disc?
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  7. Member solarfox's Avatar
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    If only some of them don't work, in some players, I'd be more inclined to suspect poor quality control during the replication process.

    If none of them work in any DVD player, then either the master disc you sent them has an authoring error, or the glass master they made from it is defective (which would still fall under quality-control issues, as above.)

    As to what kind of authoring error could cause this -- it could be any of a dozen different things. Although if the master copy played correctly on a set-top player before you sent it to the replication house, it's unlikely that's the root of your problem.
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  8. I don't know how many copies don't work, dvds went directly to stores. For sure is: from 3 tested 2 work and 1 don't - and that's only 66%. And the client said: "All my other DVDs work on set-top player except that"...


    I will call the replication house tomorrow and ask if they test DVD master copy before replicating.
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  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    You sent them directly to the stores?!!!!

    And you say you've done replication before?!!!!

    Look, Rule#1 of replication is to get a check disc(s) for prior approval before doing the full mess rep.
    Rule#2 is to get a number of random samples of the final run.
    Rule#3 is to test both of those groups of discs on all kinds of settops and software before giving the A-OK.

    And it's not a rule anymore, but I'm quite surprised you didn't send a DL disc image via Harddrive or DLT (which was what used to be required). DL-Rs and DL-RWs are fine as a reference for the plant, but you don't want those as your master.

    Did the pressing plant run the master through an Eclipse verification process? What did that say?

    ((Shakes head in resignation))

    Scott
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  10. No, i didn't send them to the stores, the client did, the same day as they got DVDs from the replication house. They didn't even test it before.

    There was no rules 1, 2 or 3 - don't ask me why - i did only authoring and DVD+R DL master and the client did the rest.
    I never deal with replication houses, i just send masters to clients. And all was ok until now.

    The person from the replication house said that they test master DVD+R DL only if it is readable and then they make an exact physical copy of it on the glass master. I asked about Eclipse but she never heard of that. Only that they checked it if it is readable (with some software (???), she didn't know the name). And that the client must sign a paper that all is ok with the DL master. And she said it's impossible for their quality-control issues of glass master or replication. And that they don't accept masters on the harddrive, must be DL disc.

    Shortly.. they said it's not their fault.
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  11. Member solarfox's Avatar
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    And she said it's impossible for their quality-control issues of glass master or replication.
    Which proves nothing, really; they certainly aren't going to come out and admit "Oh, yeah, our QC sucks and clients have this problem all the time."

    If they've never even heard of Eclipse DVD verification, don't accept masters on hard drive or DLT, and only check to see if the DVD+R master is readable via "some software" she can't even name)... I strongly suspect that this replication house's process control is inadequate, to say the least.

    I suggest you point your client to the company linked above, and have him send them some of the replicated discs for "check disc verification" or "replication troubleshooting" analysis. I'd be willing to bet a steak-and-lobster dinner that those replicated discs won't pass testing, and that's the source of your client's problem with customers not being able to play the replicated discs in their DVD players at home.
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  12. Maybe their process control is inadequate, i don't know.

    Anyway, today i bought one pressed disc (of this master) in the store and checked it in 10 different set-top players. Guess what - the disc played everywhere without a single problem! On bluray set-top players, new dvd players and even one 10+ years old dvd player.
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  13. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Eclipse testing is overkill for small runs.

    I highly suggest using http://newcyberian.com as your replicator.
    Never had troubles with their media. Gorgeous discs, very quality stuff.
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  14. Originally Posted by solarfox
    I'd be willing to bet a steak-and-lobster dinner that those replicated discs won't pass testing
    Solarfox - so, who is responsible for the possible error - authoring (me) or replication house? I don't have professional tools for a DVD verification, best I can do is to check the master on as many set-top players.
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  15. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    One good thing to keep in mind for future jobs to to have the various party's responsibilities spelled in ahead of time in a work order/contract...

    Anyway, IANAL, but since you sent this to the client for ....review?... and they sent it on to the repl house, it's kind of like saying, "yeah, ok this is good enough for us."
    Plus, who's to say that your master didn't suffer abuse and corruption in transit from them to the replicator? Maybe not enough to be visible, but maybe enough to require the error correction circuits to work overtime just to give an OK readout. Then you put the minor errors that may creep in within the variations existing in any press run, and it might be enough to tip it over the scale to bad sector/unreadability... (and that was "under their care")

    Did you happen to send more than one copy to them? (It's another rule, #4 I guess)

    Well, I hope the errors mentioned are truly isolated and that the vast majority have a pleasant viewing experience with the store-bought ones like you did. It's quite possible and common enough.

    Lessons learned.

    Scott

    >>>>>>>
    Bottom line: if this were me, I would never use a replication company like that again. Unprofessional.
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  16. Member solarfox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Eclipse testing is overkill for small runs.
    I believe the original poster referred to "thousands of discs", which have been sent out to retail outlets. If that's a "small run", then tell us, o Mighty Oracle, what quantities would you consider worthy of the Eclipse priesthood's attention?
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  17. Member solarfox's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wzt
    Solarfox - so, who is responsible for the possible error - authoring (me) or replication house? I don't have professional tools for a DVD verification, best I can do is to check the master on as many set-top players.
    I'm afraid there's no way to answer that with absolute, 100% certainty without the replicated discs being tested to determine whether it's a replication problem (poor quality control in the glass master-making or stamping processes, or inferior-quality materials used in manufacturing, leading to discs which have physical defects that cause reading errors in the DVD players), or an authoring problem (an error in the data itself which causes a DVD player to be unable to recognize the data on the disc as a valid DVD structure, or to hang up or get "lost" trying to execute an invalid command or branch to a nonexistent program chain).

    However -- as an educated guess, I'm betting on the replication house being the problem, due to slipshod quality control and/or inferior materials being used during manufacture.
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