Any great way to convert AVCHD Lite for VideoPad?

[MJ Peg]

I'm trying to get AVCHD Lite .mts files from Panasonic digicams (FZ38 & TZ7 etc) to work well in the free NLE called VideoPad (NCH).

Raw .mts : VideoPad loads them but won't play my test clip all the way through, stopping halfway and at another point if I nudge the position on a bit. The final render has "Unable to render" captions in it, at various points with most test clips. There's obviously something in the stream it doesn't like.

Super (c) using 'stream copy' : similar size to original clip, plays in VLC and VideoPad, but VideoPad is not great on the timeline preview and messes up the final render around transitions.

Super (c) actual conversions : either play back at 2x speed or look terrible no matter what I try, regardless of container, codec, various settings. The fact that the AVCHD mts contains 25 unique fps but is tagged as 50 probably screws things up a bit. When it does manage to make it the right length, I get flashing effects and other odd artifacts, in VLC, MPC, VideoPad etc.

WinFF : fails to work for me, error message.

TsMuxeR : I played with it but it didn't do anything useful for me.

Prism (NCH) conversions : These look OK in VLC and VideoPad, but are limited to 9000kbps and hiccup on the timeline preview after crossfade transitions. Usable best solution so far, but I'd prefer better...

Koyote AVCHD Converter : Bigger files than from Prism (higher bitrate is promising for quality) and play 100% smoothly in VideoPad even with crossfade transitions. But the sound is strangely messed up, like someone's tapping a button to mute the treble here and there!

Koyote would be great if it didn't mangle the sound
So.... is there a way to convert AVCHD Lite that maintains the quality of the clip, keeps the sound intact, and works well in VideoPad? Ideally I'd have the Koyote video stream and the original audio, if only I could do that in an automated way and it worked smoothly with VideoPad!

Any great ideas please?!

[poisondeathray]

You can use avisynth with FFMpegSource2 and convert to a lossless intermediate (e.g. huffyuv, lagarith), but you will need lots of HD space. I'm not familiar with videopad, but it should work. Here is a similar thread dealing with avchd lite
https://forum.videohelp.com/topic372515.html

[MJ Peg]

Thanks, I will read that thread now. I don't fancy huge intermediate files although I suppose it might be worth the pain.
AVISynth and scripts seem horribly complicated for what should be a simple task!
I'd just like VideoPad to work with AVCHD well directly, or failing that, a good conversion utility
Cheers

[MJ Peg]

No joy yet.

I wish I knew why Koyote's conversions is messing up the sound as it converts to mp4a: MPEG-4 AAC LC 44100Hz , stereo (2/0) (from GSpot)

If there was a way I could convert the mts file into another mts/m2ts file while keeping the original video stream but converting the Dolby AC3 sound stream (GSpot reports : Codec: 0x2000 (Dolby AC3) AC3 48000Hz 192 kb/s tot , stereo (2/0)
into something else, maybe Koyote would work better with that?

It would be a hassle to convert all the mts files into other mts/m2ts files AND THEN Koyote convert them, but it would be worth it because they edit nicely in VideoPad. It's just the sound messed up.

I don't like de-muxing and re-muxing unless it's all automated by a nice GUI, and Super (c) gets horribly confused by the frame rate kludge (25 reported as 50) when it converts (speeds up x2) and doesn't allow video stream copying with mts/m2ts. When I stream copy the video into other containers, the video flashes with awful artifacts. I can't win!

[MJ Peg]

I managed to use Super (c) to make an AVI with a copy of the original video stream and PCM little-endian sound. Plays in VLC, edits poorly in VideoPad.

I then used Super (c) to make an m2ts file from that, using H264/AVC at 25fps 17280kbps, without using DirectShow, sound AC3 48k 448kbps - this doesn't play in VLC but does in MPC and WMP. Sounds OK.

I hoped that as it was an m2ts file, then Koyote would convert it. Well it does... but I ended up with a clip twice as long as it should be, which everything plays, but the video stops a couple of seconds before the audio stops... then it carries on, doing nothing. This is so irritating!

So it's a good looking Koyote conversion WITH OK SOUND at last, and it edits well in VideoPad if I stick to the start of the clip, but it's the wrong length and I don't get all the video! Arghh!!!!

[creamyhorror]

Convert to lossless intermediate like PDR said, preferably with a good deinterlace. If the problem lies in the video stream itself, then whatever container you copy it to may not help.

[poisondeathray]

The problem is most software, decoders and splitters cannot handle this format properly yet. There are frame repeat flags in the stream. This is likely why you are having difficulty with the length (2x as long and so forth....).

You will probably have to wait a few months until software is updated to handle AVCHD Lite properly - or bite the bullet and use avisynth. The script is quite easy, 1 line (2 lines if you are going to deinterlace). If you want to use a lower quality intermediate (instead of lossless), you can save some disk space

[MJ Peg]

OK, I think I've solved it. I'm just going to play some more, but here's what I wrote just before I found something that appears to work
I shall run a few more tests and then report what I've discoved.

Here's what I was going to reply just before my breakthrough! :-

The original footage is progressive, so deinterlacing shouldn't be needed.
Lossless makes for huge files which VideoPad chokes on, but I suppose could be used for a further conversion.

The plot thickens. With Prism converter, the AVI option allows a load of codec options. Most of them don't really appeal due to resulting file sizes (either too big or too compressed) and FFDShow allows a whole load of further options. However, although FFDShow conversions work to the right speed with good sound and video, none of them allow smooth editing in VideoPad. I can't just scrub along the timeline with no hiccups.

BUT, if I select AVI then Cinepak (no FFDShow involved) it takes a long time to get files about 4x the originals, but they play wonderfully in VideoPad. No freezes, smooths scrubs. That would be wonderful if it wasn't for one major catch - the colour doesn't look quite right! My natural looking sky in my test clip looks bluer/warmer than it used to, like a bit of green has been lost. So close!

I'd love to know why FFDShow conversions make VideoPad freeze and glitch even when the MP4V CC is showing up in GSpot like Koyote's does with mp4v. Must be a different encoder, as GSpot can't decode the Koyote ones but can with the Prism/FFDShow ones. The clue must be in there somewhere!

[MJ Peg]

It seems to be all about the I frames setting that I had in the options, whether a bad choice was in there from the start or I changed it I don't know, but...

I have used the Prism Converter from NCH, with the option set to : Use FFMPEG First...
I selected AVI container, encoder options FfdShow, encoder MPEG-4 with FourCC of MP4V, one pass quality with slider to 100%
Then in the Generic options I brought the "Maxium I Frame Interval" setting down from some huge 200-ish figure to 18.
Everything else is left as it was. Sound is PCM 44100 16 bits stereo.

The conversions are quick, slightly larger than the original size, look and sound great in VLC/MPC/WMP, and work flawlessly in VideoPad! All my problem clips are working perfectly.

(45 clips were 753MB as mts files, are now 956MB as AVI/MP4V/PCM)

So, problem solved
Thanks for giving me the chance to set things down in writing and work through it. I hope this helps anyone else wanting the same solution. FFDShow is great after all, and I'm using version 3054 from 23 Aug 2009, for what it's worth. Prism and VideoPad come from nchsoftware.com

[MJ Peg]

This is what VideoPad looks like


and the Prism converter


Great value for money! (free)

[creamyhorror]

Codec Motion JPEG? Hmm...suspicious...

[poisondeathray]

Holy spam. Prism and Videopad are shareware from NCH. Not Free

You can see the "buy online" button in his 1st screenshot

[MJ Peg]

What's spammy about free software? I haven't paid a penny, I'm not connected with them, I'm using the free versions.
Credit where credit is due, I say, if someone releases a free version of something. Do we not talk about Windows Movie Maker just because it's free from a commercial company?

Yes, there's a version you can buy with more save options, but the free one works well enough for my purposes.

I thought it was self evident that I was struggling with a number of products here, and to be honest I thought Super (c) was going to be a more likely candidate for success but it happened to turn out that both the NLE and converter came from the same people. I like to spread the word when I find a solution for something tricky and it's free, but I'm sorry if I've broken any forum rules. Have I?

Cheers

[indiie]

What's spammy about free software? I haven't paid a penny, I'm not connected with them, I'm using the free versions.
Credit where credit is due, I say, if someone releases a free version of something. Do we not talk about Windows Movie Maker just because it's free from a commercial company?

Yes, there's a version you can buy with more save options, but the free one works well enough for my purposes.

I thought it was self evident that I was struggling with a number of products here, and to be honest I thought Super (c) was going to be a more likely candidate for success but it happened to turn out that both the NLE and converter came from the same people. I like to spread the word when I find a solution for something tricky and it's free, but I'm sorry if I've broken any forum rules. Have I?

Cheers

I'd say that poisondeathray was simply being podantic about you describing the software as "free" as opposed to being "shareware". Having said that, this site categorizes them both as freeware. Anyway...

So the problem where AVCHD format shows as 50fps but is really just 25fps with every second frame duplicated (as I read elsewhere) still seems to be an issue when trying to convert to H.264 using the latest version of Super. After converting using FPS settings that match the original source (tried both 50 fps and 25fps), the output video runs at twice the speed of the original but the audio runs at correct speed.

I just tried using Prism and it converts OK with video running at correct speed. The only problem is that it doesn't offer the kind of control I'd like to have over how much compression you're using. MPEG4 can be a max of 4096 Kbps. But good little tool for quick and easy conversions.

Also is it possible I'm getting a different level of quality due to the codec used to compress? With Super I could specify that I wanted H.264/AVC codec which I read is the best to minimise quality loss. With Prism I can choose .mp4 format but the encode options only lists MPEG4 compressors with nothing specifying H.264. Would a video compressed using these settings in Prism at 4096Kbps be of a lesser quality than one compressed using H.264 at 4096Kbps in Super?

[MJ Peg]

If you have ffdshow installed, then that will be an option in Prism and you can then choose all sorts of compression goodies with that.
Except for sound, for some reason. As soon as you venture away from PCM then it changes the video option away from ffdshow back to the default again!
But that's no biggie for temporary files to edit with, it maintains audio quality along the way to the final 'movie' creation.