359 $ to handle XDCAM with Premiere Pro CS4

[poisondeathray]

Poisondeathray,

Thanks for your honesty. Otherwise, to export high bit rate audio PCM codec using much more compressed MPEG audio codec in order to then re-enconde this audio codec with a free multiplexer is not appropriate at all. I do not want to lose more than two-thirds of my sound information !

Moreover, to me, sound is as important as images. Like I am used to say : I make images to "show" sounds.

Best regards.

No, I was suggesting exporting it as PCM (uncompressed) 1536kb/s, not compressed format! The multiplexer just packages it (put it in a new box analogy). You can leave it unmultiplexed if you want, to archive for example

Most people archive their original footage. Because even if you could smart render, the sections where your effects & transitions are re-encoded = quality loss. When it comes time to distribute your project (e.g. blu-ray , web, or whatever format), you encode from the original project, not from a re-encoded lossy 2nd generation XDCAM format. What you save are your project files and assets, so you can get the best quality. There is no advantage to exporting XDCAM, and even less so since you can't smart render (even with the Mainconcept plugin). Does this make any sense? The method you are suggesting (even if smart rendering worked), would cause unecessary quality loss

It would be nice if NLE's could smart render all formats, but unfortunately this is not the case.

[Turmap]

Poisondeathray, you mean to export the audio separetely from the images ?

Appart from that, once the difficult and lasting editing work is done, it is much more important to me to archive properly my documentaries than my video rushes.

I do know otherwise that sections where effects & transitions are re-encoded = quality loss. But as I've allready said, I am not an After Effec "maniac". "like a documentary-maker, I mainly cut, copy and paste, add a few titles... What would be the point to compress in another format ? To damage my source format ?"

Let'say another way : since we know for example XDCAM EX video format is precisely MPEG-2 MP@HL format + PCM audio codec, Premiere has to export them (with smart render), instead of telling everywhere it imports natively XDCAM formats without telling clearly it doesn't export them at all.

[JohnnyMalaria]

JohnnyMalaria,

Everybody can indeed get to Adobe's explicit statement that Premiere 4 supports XDCAM *import* in three clicks from their home page. But I was speaking about getting to Adobe's explicit statement that Premiere doesn't export XDCAM formats. To get that information, you need 5 mouse clicks.

Then you miss my point. If you buy a car and it says "runs on petrol" then you decide to fill it up with diesel and it doesn't work, is the car manufacturer being deliberately misleading by saying that the car doesn't run on diesel? No. Any reasonable person knows that if you require a product to do two things and the literature says it does one of those things and doesn't even mention the other then it is very likely that it won't do the other. You then have the opportunity to investigate further before buying. You simply didn't do your homework and are determined to place all the blame anywhere but with you. Learn from this unfortunate mistake, accept your fallibility and move on.

Caveat emptor.

[Turmap]

JohnnyMalaria, Let's say it that way : if I buy a car and it says "runs on diesel" then, I decide to use it and motor works indeed, but car is not moving because I have to put a camshat in it, which of course, I should have known because it is written on brochure page 17, I'll think : my God, they did like Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 documentation !

I remind you Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 documentation says at one mouse click from the home page :

Tapeless camera support new
Edit video natively in the latest tapeless formats, including RED, AVCHD, P2, XDCAM EX, and XDCAM HD, without transcoding or rewrapping. Browse your drives and removable media from inside Adobe Premiere Pro to find, log, and import footage.
( http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/features/?view=topnew )

And then, at 5 mouse clicks from home page, Premiere documentation says it doesn't export XDCAM formats. ( http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/405/kb405978.html ). Everybody knows that 5 mouse clicks from an home page means so many possibilities that one may necessitate several dozens clicks to get the proper information. That's why, as I allready said many times on this thread, Final Cut Pro, Sony Vegas and Edius do put these informations that cannot be ignored at 1 click from their documentation home page. (Final Cut Pro, Sony Vegas and Edius which, unlike Premiere Pro, do export XDCAM formats.)


Anyway, one thing is obvious :

Premiere Pro CS4 doesn't export at all XDCAM formats, nor properly MPEG-2 format. Even if, for example, you want to export XDCAM EX using MPEG-2 from Media Encoder, which is the best way to do even if Premiere Pro doesn't smart render nothing but DV, you'll have to sacrifice the high quality XDCAM PCM audio codec because Premiere won't accept to export it with MPEG-2. To do such an export, with good quality PCM audio, you'll have to buy the 359 $ / 279 € (plus appl. Tax) Mainconcept plug-in.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Anyway, one thing is obvious :

Premiere Pro CS4 doesn't export at all XDCAM formats.

But I thought your whole rant was because it wasn't obvious.

C'est tous.

[Turmap]

C'est tout ? C'est tout petit ! (your argumentation).

Anyway, it is a bit more obvious now and I am going to make sure that it's gonna be more and more obvious.

I didn't spend more than 1000 dollars for nothing.

As Edius, Final Cut Pro and Vegas do, Premiere Pro CS4 must export XDCAM formats (at least MPEG-2 MP@HL format + PCM audio codec).

Customers will have the last word.

[fitch.j]

Even if, for example, you want to export XDCAM EX using MPEG-2 from Media Encoder, which is the best way to do even if Premiere Pro doesn't smart render nothing but DV, you'll have to sacrifice the high quality XDCAM PCM audio codec because Premiere won't accept to export it with MPEG-2. To do such an export, with good quality PCM audio, you'll have to buy the 359 $ / 279 € (plus appl. Tax) Mainconcept plug-in.

You could always render the audio seperately, and then mux them together afterwards, giving you what you wanted, and saving you the 359 $ / 279 € that you dont NEED to spend.

[Turmap]

You could always render the audio seperately, and then mux them together afterwards, giving you what you wanted, and saving you the 359 $ / 279 € that you dont NEED to spend.

(By "afterwards", I suppose you mean after exporting audio and images separately in order to mux them with a different software than Premiere...)

Is this a joke ? I didn't buy a more than 1000 dollars professional video editing software to play experiences !

(I remind readers that I am not speaking about unknown codecs but MPEG-2 and PCM audio. How does it Premiere Pro CS4 does not export these together ?! How does it Premiere Pro CS4 does not smart render nothing but DV ?!)

[pippas]

I'm intrigued -- how come you didn't confirm that Premiere would do what what you needed, before you spent your 1000 dollars?

Surely you checked that the required options were available from the trial version before you parted with your cash?

[Turmap]

(Pippas, you should read the thread in order to get the answer to your question. I have allready demonstrated many times how much the least that one can say is that Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 documentation is either purposely vague or, which I cannot believe, definitly stupid, on these questions.)


Important to notice now :

Adobe defenders have written here that 359 $ / 279 € (plus appl. Tax) Mainconcept MPEG PRO HD 4 plug-in is useless because it won't allow to do XDCAM smart rendering since Premiere Pro CS4 doesn't smart render MPEG-2 (unlike most others professionals video editing sofwares, Premiere doesn't smart render nothing but DV). It was false :

Beside Sony XDCAM HD support, the new version of MPEG Pro HD 4 Broadcast Suite now offers full support for the latest Sony XDCAM EX camcorder generation allowing import, editing, and export of such streams – including smart rendering – with Adobe Premiere Pro.

( http://www.mainconcept.com/site/prosumer-products-4/mpeg-pro-hd-4-22464/information-22492.html?L=0 )

So, beside the fact Premiere doesn't export MPEG-2 with PCM audio codec, it is definitly an obligation to buy 359 $ / 279 € (plus appl. Tax) Mainconcept MPEG PRO HD 4 plug-in in order to export XDCAM formats from Premiere Pro CS4 (which is not the case regarding, for example, professionals video editing softwares like Canopus Edius, Final Cut Pro and Sony Vegas, which all seem to export XDCAM, HDV or MPEG-2 formats without compelling customers to buy anything more.)

[Turmap]

Lately, my girl friend heard a radio program about people whose duty is to defend enterprises on forums. I wouldn't say this is the case here with my interlocutors, but i wouldn't say this is not.

Anyway, it's time now for Adobe to spend energy on radically ameliorating its Premiere Pro CS4 software and its very "purposely vague" documentation on it. If we do have to spend several hundred dollars more to use Premiere properly, if Premiere is purposely made to make rich either Mainconcept or others, it has to be said. If, as it is the case regarding most others professionals video editing softwares, we do not have to spend anything more, if Premiere is really made for movie-makers to edit videos, Premiere has to change urgently.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Ever heard the maxim "Keep it simple, stupid"?

Instead of aggressively assaulting Adobe, why not just post something along the lines of:

"Please be aware that Premiere does not support XDCAM export without purchasing a third-party plug-in. This wasn't clear to me so I wanted to make others know before buying the product."

That's all you need to say. Readers will get the point instead of rolling their eyes at the ramblings of an embittered customer who joined a forum solely to vent.

[Turmap]

We're reaching 1789 views for this thread. It is revolution ! King Adobe has to change or...

Anyway, thanks Johnny for telling the truth (even if you forgot to inform about the several hundred dollars plug-in price and the fact that unlike Premiere, most others professionals videos softwares don't make it necessary for customers to purchase any plug-in in order to export XDCAM formats among others...) Thanks for inviting me to copy and paste what I've written to open this thread (before being slandered by Adobe defensers) :

"359 $ to handle XDCAM with Premiere Pro CS4

Indeed, Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 does not export XDCAM formats (EX, HD and others). That means you cannot save your XDCAM work in XDCAM with Premiere. To export your XDCAM project with Premiere, you’ll have to buy Mainconcept MPEG PRO HD 4 plug-in, whose price is 359 $ / 279 € (plus appl. Tax).

This situation is unfortunately not properly indicated by Adobe, that’s the least that one can say. It wouldn’t be false to say it is even hidden.

Unlike Premiere Pro CS4, many others professionnals video editing software, which can be less expensive than Premiere, like Final Cut Studio, Sony Vegas or Canopus Edius, can fully manage XDCAM without compelling customers to buy anything more."

[pippas]

Adobe_Premiere_Pro]Adobe Premiere Pro[/url] CS4 documentation is either purposely vague or, which I cannot believe, definitly stupid, on these questions.)

So you didn't check before you bought then. If the documentation was' vague', and you needed to know whether it would support an XDCAM output format without extra expense, or not, why not ask Adobe the question specifically?

Before you decide to buy!

I can't imagine spending $1000 on software without doing some serious checking on whether it could do what I was expecting of it!

[Turmap]

Pippas, I didn't know in advance it was purposely vague. For second time, I advise you to read the thread before stepping in it. Anyway, since you seem not wanting to do it, I repeat, just for you :

Unlike for example Edius, Final Cut Pro and Vegas, which do properly inform about video formats they do import, edit and export at 1 mouse click from their home page documentation, Premiere Pro CS4 give these precise video formats informations at 5 mouse clicks from its home page documentation.

(Everybody knows that 5 mouse clicks from home page means so many possibilities that one may necessitate several dozens clicks to get the proper information. Any storekeeper will know how much mouse clicks number is strategic regarding documentation. For shure, many people are working on these documentation issues in Adobe.)

Unlike for example Edius, Final Cut Pro and Vegas, which do use at one mouse click from their home page the term "support" to express the fact they import, edit and export formats (and if it not the case, they do precise it immediately), Premiere Pro CS4, which uses the same term "support" at one click from its home page documentation, will only inform that this doesn't include export at 5 clicks from its home page.

(You'll find all links proving this reality up in the thread).

May be all this is due to the fact that, unlike Edius, Final Cut Pro and Vegas, Premiere Pro CS4 does not export XDCAM formats. Indeed, what's the point to import without exporting ?

[HDHenry]

Have you guys actually ever tested exporting XDCAM video in CS4?

I just edited and exported a clip in .mp4, m2v and mpeg2.

Footage from Sony PMW-EX1, XDCAM format in 1080p.

Unfortunately I got the clip exported in Premiere. What did I do wrong?

[aedipuss]

Have you guys actually ever tested exporting XDCAM video in CS4?

I just edited and exported a clip in .mp4, m2v and mpeg2.

Footage from Sony PMW-EX1, XDCAM format in 1080p.

Unfortunately I got the clip exported in Premiere. What did I do wrong?

haven't a clue what you are babbling about. start at the beginning and explain what you are asking for help with. step by step what you did and what you expected to get for output.

rather than hijacking an old thread, a better way is to start your own new thread for a new problem.

[HDHenry]

Have you guys actually ever tested exporting XDCAM video in CS4?

I just edited and exported a clip in .mp4, m2v and mpeg2.

Footage from Sony PMW-EX1, XDCAM format in 1080p.

Unfortunately I got the clip exported in Premiere. What did I do wrong?

haven't a clue what you are babbling about. start at the beginning and explain what you are asking for help with. step by step what you did and what you expected to get for output.

rather than hijacking an old thread, a better way is to start your own new thread for a new problem.

Sure.

This thread started with this statement by nickname Turmap:

Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 does not export XDCAM formats (EX, HD and others). That means you cannot save your XDCAM work in XDCAM with Premiere.
Premiere Pro CS4 does not support any XDCAM formats : it imports XDCAM formats, it allows you to work on XDCAM formats and then, it does not let you export any of them.

Well. Im just saying that my Premiere Pro CS4 exports XDCAM format.
I'd like to know hows that possible when 50 million people are telling Premiere can't do that.

[aedipuss]

maybe it's a language/translation problem. adobe imports xdcam and edits it fine. we already know that and that's all adobe advertises, it's on their website. they don't export in xdcam and don't make any claim that they do.

but.

if you can export in xdcam .mxf format, then please go ahead and show us a screenshot of the cs4 settings.

[Turmap]

A bit of explanations regarding XDCAM EX and Premiere Pro CS4 :

XDCAM EX video container, whose name is MP4, wraps MPEG-2 codec for images + high bit rate PCM codec for audio. So Even if people from Adobe tell you that it is possible, for example, to export XDCAM EX format in mpeg-2 with Premiere pro CS4, be aware that :

- Premiere Pro CS4 does not allow to export MPEG-2 images codec with PCM audio codec, but with MPEG audio codec. MPEG audio codec is 3 megabits per minute maximum, PCM audio codec is 11. That’s why to export XDCAM EX with Premiere makes you lose about 70 % of your original sound information.

- Premiere Pro CS4 does not export Mpeg-2 images with smart rendering. (Smart rendering consists in rendering only sections affected by editing effects, in order to don’t have quality loss on others sections.)

- To export XDCAM EX MPEG-2 images with smart rendering + XDCAM EX PCM audio codec from Premiere Pro CS4, no choice but to buy 359 $ / 279 € (plus appl. Tax) Mainconcept plug-in.

- Unlike Premiere Pro CS4, most professional video editing softwares (Edius, Final Cut Pro, Vegas...) do export PCM audio codec and MPEG-2 with smart rendering without compelling customers to buy anything more.

[HDHenry]

Oh well. It exports XDCAM but the quality is bad.
However the 359 $ software is useless if youre a mac user
because Mainconcept MPEG Pro HD is only for Windows.
had to learn the hard way: http://hdhenry.com/?p=27

but hey, Adobe is working on it