Always been a put-it-together-yourself PC person. Never had any issues as far as support etc. Mac always seemed like a 'designer' PC, like a 'designer' bag: More expensive and sometimes nicer looking but not always better.
Anyways, working at different chapels for weddings I started asking photographers and videographers what they used. NOT ONE person (Out of more than 20) used a PC. They may have a PC for personal use but for work (In video and photography) they are all about the MAC and how it out performs any PC. Nobody could really give me any information on why, they just said "When I used a PC, it was slow, the Mac was fast."
Having never used a Mac since the early 90's, I really have no clue as to why people are going the way of Mac. Viruses have never been an issue for me and quite often when I look at software I see (Doesn't support MacOSX)...not always, but often enough.
Can someone with a Mac tell me why they decided to go that way. Or better yet, can someone who use to be a PC person turned over to Mac?
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The common issue with "PC is slow" is they bought some pre-assembled system loaded down with crap (Dell, HP, etc), and then never fixed the problem. The Mac comes with next to nothing installed "extra" beyond Apple software.
I've had to use both platforms for as many years as I can remember. My photos don't get near OS X if I can help it. For years, Photoshop on Mac was behind the Windows version. There are far more plugins for the Windows version!
The problem you've run into is you just happen to know a bunch of stupid/uneducated people. There are good reasons for owning Mac -- and those lazy/non-tech/know-nothings you know are perfect candidates.
Video has a good workflow on Mac, Final Cut and DVD Studio Pro. It's not superior to Windows by any means, just a solid option that's out there. I use that one, too, sometimes.
Originally Posted by beavereater
There are people that I do recommend Macs to. They are generally those who want nothing to do with computers, but want to be part of the whole facebook/twitter thing (and are happy to take the computer back to the Apple store to get all their software installed - office etc), and those who want a fashion accessory to go with their iPod and/or iPhone.
If you are doing things like Wedding videos, where you will always have clean source taken straight from a camera, and never, ever have to do any clean up or restoration, then a Mac is probably not a bad choice either. If that was my gig, I would seriously consider getting one. That is all I would use it for, and I would still have a PC as my primary machine because it is far more capable in a wider range of tasks, both video related and beyond.Read my blog here.
When Steve Jobs touts new desktop backgrounds as a hot new feature for the new OS and gets a 10 minute standing ovation, you know you're not dealing with the brightest people.
The Mac is hype, hype, hype, and design. If you prefer form over function then by all means get a Mac. The fact that the macbook is made out of a single peice of aluminum and corinthian leather means absolutely nothing when I'm encoding a video.
Macs are good for people who have very very simple needs. They want to send email, look for stuff on the internet, and aren't very technical. Right now, Macs seem to be mostly virus free, but mark my words that someone will figure out a way to infect Macs and all hell will break loose. Windows is just an easier target right now because of market penetration and consistently poor software security practices. Since nobody who owns a Mac ever considers getting anti-virus software (such does exist for Macs), it's just a matter of time before someone targets them and it runs wild on the platform.
I work as a Unix System Administrator and I hate Windows passionately, but the truth is that Windows is where the tools are. It's what I use at home. On Mac, there is maybe 1 or 2 programs at most that can do something and if they don't work for you, you are out of luck. On Windows you usually have multiple choices and you can eventually find something that works or that you like to use. If Mac even has a tool that can do what you want, you'll often find out that there is no freeware that can do it, so get out your credit card because you're going to have to pay for it.
Many Mac users are completely irrational in their love for Macs and I swear that I know people who if Apple was to sell an iTurd that simply was a turd with no function, they would run to the Apple Store to buy it. Macs don't do everything well. Macs are good as individual desktops but Apple makes lousy servers. We tried to use a Mac server as a department mail server and it was terrible. I have said that I think that Mac's package installation procedure is awful and that Linux has a far superior method, yet the Mac fanboys at work react pretty negatively to that because, as you will find out, EVERYTHING IS THE BEST ON MACS. IT COULD NOT BE BETTER. THEY ARE FLAWLESS. Right.
I use a Mac and I use a PC. Both are actually in my Mac. I use Parallels to run any Windows software that isn't available on my Mac and also to run Office 2007 apps because I teach Office 2007 at the local community college. I also use IE in Windows to access websites that require the use of ActiveX (SAM2007 CBT, for example).
Other than the above, I use OSX for everything else. All the "iApps" that Apple provides (and work seamlessly together), Final Cut, all other web browsing & eMail, video transcoding & subtitle preparation/embedding, FTP, Office 2008 apps, PDF production & annotating,...and eveything else.
I do own a few PC notebooks but I've got one running Ubuntu as it's much more reliable than XP (and certainly Vista); you just can't do any serious multimedia without QuickTime (or going down the alpha-geek route for which I do not have time). The other notebook is running Windows 7 and I must say it sucks way less than Vista (and it's running on a Sempron CPU; really!).
I moved my wife from her Windows notebook to a PowerBook and I now have almost no tech support issues with her machine. Was she doing something to her PC? No, it was just Windows' way of telling me to stop wasting my time.
The statement that Mac users "want nothing to do with computers" is absurd. We want to do everything with our computers and usually do. We just don't see a need to have to reinstall our OS when some unpronounceable ".dll" goes south and takes the entire unit with it.
By the way, can't you do that "whole facebook/twitter thing"? I thought Windows could do that. In fact, I thought most users of Facebook were PC people. Am I wrong? (I use Facebook only because my kids like the photo posting/commenting thing.)
So am I telling the original poster to buy a Mac? Maybe. Buy whatever computer runs the software you need. But also make sure you have good tech support in your neck of the woods regardless of the platform. I've been using Macs for about 25 years, PCs for a few years longer than that. I provide tech support for both but find that most of my clients are more than happy to abandon their PCs, buy a Mac, and get back to work.
Appreciate the comments guys...
The 3rd party crap is the first stuff I removed from my wife's PC. Everything else would run fine after that. BUT give it a few months and things would get funky with her PC again and I'd be the person to try and figure things out.
If Mac is not such a big issue as far as tech support goes, perhaps a Mac for my wife would be OK. Her needs are simple and she likes fashion...still...I dunno...SmileSmile
So beavereater....... The question is "Why did I get a Mac?" The answer is Simple. Because when I used a PC it was slow, the Mac was fast...
Wait... that sounds familiar........
Where have I heard that before... hummm......
Computers are like religions: no matter how hard people try to be objective, theres always a bias toward whatever you believe in more or use more or learned first or that the majority believes is "better".
The Mac vs Windows vs Linux thing is an organic question that changes every few years. Macs have certain advantages that Apple either leverages nicely or blows to hell, depending on Steve Jobs mood that year. For a very long time, Macs provided a useful alternative, particularly for those in graphics or video who by default were only going to use "industry standard" applications anyway. The argument for Windows app diversity is a bit of a cheat: in all major areas, there is one "go-to" app that is the standard, usually available for both platforms. Saying theres 50 more photo editors and a dozen more word processors for Windows means nothing if the standards everyone really uses are MS Word and PhotoShop. Some of the Mac press is deranged and some of the fanboys are demented, but this gets exaggerated as much as the MS hype machine is exaggerated. In the real world of sane people, not every Mac user is a wingnut and not every Windows user is a gearhead: they choose rationally based on what they think will work for them. Sometimes they change horses midstream and a surprising number use both, and/or Linux.
Apple has always had a love/hate relationship with developers, and thats what kills diversity on the platform. This didn't matter so much until a few years ago, because the fewer apps on Macs were the ones users in most fields would have picked regardless. But the rise of tasks like DVD reauthoring and elaborate video encoding hobbies screwed Apple big time, because there's really no software options available on OSX and the majority of Macs are sealed-box designs with no ability to install commonly-available optical drives. For the video tasks typical of members here on VH, most Macs are currently a giant pain and can be extremely frustrating or impossible to use compared to Windows (and some Linux) options. As LordSmurf said, if you're dealing with super-clean source video then yes you can have a blast using a Mac and its professional video apps. But if you want to back up a recent Hollywood DVD, or re-author a DVD made on your DVD recorder, or use obscure video filtering, prepare for headaches. This can change on a dime, and its actually overdue, but for the present its much easier to find video options on Windows (especially freeware/shareware demuxers and whatnot). And note there are some problems with color rendition on the current high-gloss iMac screens: ShutterBug recently confirmed the gamut is all over the place and not easily correctable by OS tweaking, making iMacs useless for serious color correction of still or video images (unless you connect an external monitor, which defeats the purpose of the all-in-one concept.) Such boneheaded inexplicable mistakes come back to bite Apple every so often.
For non-video use, the platforms blur and your choice would be based on your specific circumstances. If you are the "tech support" for family and friends, a Mac will keep them out of your hair almost completely. Viruses are rare and Macs are far less subject to bizarro-world mysterious slowdowns and other symptoms that can take days or weeks to troubleshoot on Windows. Aside from power gamers and those who may need a couple of exclusive-to-Windows chat features, most business apps and common graphics/video software is available and works fine on Macs. PhotoShop began on the Mac and remained optimized for it for years, but now more plugins and enhancements are available for the Windows version. This does not impact everyone the same way, not even pros, you have to judge for yourself based on what you do: LS must have the Windows version of PS, but you may be perfectly happy with the Mac version. Internet Explorer is no longer available for Mac, but anyone with sense uses alternatives even on Windows, and most of the browser options like FireFox are on both platforms.
I began on Macs back in 1988 and still use them for most of my work. Given they are tightly controlled by a single vendor, there have been peaks and valleys over the years. I personally loathe the OSX (ne "NextStep") interface, but have learned to accept it. Despite some advantages in Windows photo editors, I've often found Windows displays camera images somewhat oddly, as if they've been narrowed 10-20%. That bugs me so much I can't work in Windows PhotoShop. (If I could figure out why some Windows systems do this "narrowing" thing and some don't, I'd be really happy.) If you do a lot of film scanning, as I do, Mac seems more stable and hospitable to a wider variety of film scanners (especially older models). OTOH, I keep a Windows XP box handy for all my DVD-related work- there's a plethora of free and pay software, swapping or upgrading optical drives is a cinch and costs almost nothing, and theres tons more Windows-based tips and advice on video forums like VH. But for average home use I'd still recommend the Mac, unless the person is a heavy gamer or seriously uncomfortable using something different from their friends or work PCs. Even then, if they're clueless about computer maintainence and want me to do it for them, they better pick a Mac. If they insist on Windows, I insist they call the the service dept at Best Buy (not me at 2AM).
If they insist on Windows, I insist they call the the service dept at Best Buy (not me at 2AM).
Actually, I'll do Windows tech but I charge more for it...and I wash thoroughly when I'm done.
wow. flashbacks again.......--
"a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303
Originally Posted by rumplestiltskin
for their Tech Support....
as to the OP, I've said it a gazillion times, here's gazillion and 1: Buy the computer for what you
want to do, what software you have/plan to buy, and not for the "gee whiz shiny oh so shiny factor".
If you are a videographer/wedding person who took classes at the community college
and with your student ID qualified for an Academic copy of FCP/FCE or an educational
discount on a MacBook Pro, then do it. You'll get more for your spending buck over buying retail
a decent HP or Sony Laptop with Vegas installed.
*shrugs* buy what you need, never mind the joneses.
When it comes right down to it whether one or the other works better isn't the issue. For me the issue is simple most programs I use don't work on mac & what is available is limited. And freeware video programs almost nil on mac so if you’re happy with what is available for mac go for it otherwise go pc.
If you buy a pre-built pc you’ll spend hours removing the bloat-ware of course with the extra $$$ you’ll save buying a PC you can opt to buy the OS separately.
It's also rather difficult to web develop on a Mac, because IE controls about 60-90% of the world -- and you need to test with it. That means using Windows, be it as the base OS, or emulated in a virtual machine like Parallels in OS X.
Originally Posted by rumplestiltskin
Originally Posted by greymalkin
Why isn't this in the Computer forum?FB-DIMM are the real cause of global warming
I know of two people with Macs. Both had a major problem with installing software, caused by the simplest damn thing and an omission which amazes me.
There was no button to open the optical drive. Software control only. If you need to boot from one cd, then change to another, you can't do it.
Back many years ago when a Mac was a somewhat more viable choice, my suggestion to potential buyers was very simple. Go into a software store, any software store, and look around. It will take some time to find the Mac section, which will be 5-10% the size of the PC section. In many stores in my area, there is no Mac section at all.
Outside of a very few apps the Mac is just not a viable choice.
Originally Posted by Nelson37
Aside from the big glaring EJECT button at the end of all Mac keyboards you mean right? :P
Originally Posted by Nelson37
without crashing the system. For this, you would either need a Mac with two optical drives
(any Tower Mac) or an external Optical Drive attached via FW or USB in addition to your
internal optical drive.
Button is apparently software controlled. If attempting to use a Windows upgrade disk, which requires opening the drive to insert an older windows install disk to verify the upgrade, this cannot be done.
No system crash, this is a standard install procedure. Standard in the Windows world, anyway. Both Macs in question were Dual-boot machines. Neither has internal space for a second drive.
The Mac is not necessarily a Bad machine, just Different.
This sort of "eject button" tangent really has nothing to do with the original posters questions regarding Mac. He's asking about its utillity for his video work, and additionally whether it would be easier for him to support for friends family. In both cases the answer is a qualified "yes": he has to do a bit more research and analyze his specific needs, but either platform could work for him or his people. Software eject on Macs has been standard since 1984, this is nothing new. It affects nothing but the occasional direct install of Windows software on a Mac-hosted hard drive. Anyone who needs to run a dual-OS Mac environment knows workarounds for this, on the rare occasions it causes a problem. I have three optical drives in my Windows XP box, all of which completely ignore their physical eject buttons when certain apps (or Windows itself) refuse to release control of those drives: eject issues are not isolated to Macs.
Its 12 years too late for the "no software in my local CompUSA means the Mac is not viable" nonsense. In 1996, yes, Mac was on the ropes, primarily because of stupid management decisions within the Apple bureaucracy that really had little to do with day-to-day use of the computers at the time. Today, the issues that pushed Mac to the brink a decade ago are gone. Unless MicroSoft buys the entire internet and turns it into a Windows-exclusive playground, Mac is safe within its supporting role in the PC universe, just as Linux is safe. Some users need a non-Windows platform for their work, some just prefer elements of non-Windows systems. The majority is satisfied with Windows, and I certain don't condemn them: use whatever works best for you. Insisting Macs are "not viable" in 2009 is about as useful as saying "Linux isn't viable" or "Unix isn't viable": if you need it, and its supported, its viable. Aside from shopping mall game outlets, most software is sold online. If you're a heavy graphics/video/web developer/gamer type, you know what software you need and which platform it works best on for your purposes. For everyone else, who primarily uses office drone software, web browsers and email, its a wash. MS Word, Excel and PowerPoint are all available for Windows and Mac, Linux has OpenOffice, and every platform has a dozen competing browser options. Unless your job relies on some irritating proprietary web service that is coded only for Internet Explorer, any box with a CPU will work for you, and these days almost any computer can run Windows as a "side dish" if necessary. It nevers occurs to most people to consider anything but Windows, and if it doesn't occur to you, then you'll likely be happy with Windows. If it does occur to you to examine alternatives, then you probably need or want something else. If thats the case, do the research based on your own objectives, not opinions spouted by us forum trolls. You may decide to just stay with Windows, but you will be much more comfortable with that decision if its an informed choice, just as it makes no sense to randomly switch to Mac or Linux unless there's a clear advantage for you or the work you need to do.
Actually the OP wasn't specifically referring to video work or the like, just why the general increase in Mac owners/users lately. That's why I was wondering why this topic was located here and not the Computer forum. The Computer forum is for general computer talk, not Windows-based computer talk. While you're likely going to get a bit more Mac-bashing I bet you're going to get a few more OS-agnostic folks, like myself, chiming in on the neutral (realistic) ground.
I completely agree about your points on viability. There are tools on all three big desktop OS that work for what are needed, and each have their expert users who utilize them. I use all three at home: Vista x64 Ultimate, Ubuntu 9.04, and OSX 10.5.8 (my Snow Leopard disc arrives today). I like all three for different things. While Windows has a LOT of applications compared to a Mac it also has a lot of crap-tastic software you have to sort through to find the better tools for your use case. I see less bloat-ware and cheap-ware available for OSX (and certainly Linux).
The idea that OSX is a pedestrian OS is ridiculous. There's no such thing anymore. I would guess there are far more of the "computer illiterate" using Windows machines than Apple machines anyway. There are power users on all three platforms, and I've noticed due to the mainstream acceptance of Windows boxes that there are more power-users per user on Mac and Linux than there are on Windows machines.
The OS-bashing is about as silly as the AMD vs. Intel debates that get sooooo old. If your OS of choice works for you that's great, there is nothing to be gained by wantonly bashing the other available OS because you have never taken the time to familiarize yourself fully with it. Many of us don't have the time to become power-users across all three and there's no shame in that. I can say that I use and like all three of the major desktop players and like each one of them equally.
BTW Apple is gaining so much market share lately that VMware is putting in BSD hooks to enterprise ESX options to support OSX VMs to run on Apple hardware. That means OSX must be getting more attention as an enterprise-level desktop-virtualization solution. That was a bit of a surprise to me. Which large corporation is going to be using OSX across 5000+ end users?FB-DIMM are the real cause of global warming
Originally Posted by rallynavvieIf cameras add ten pounds, why would people want to eat them?
one of my co-workers used to be a PC guy and he recently switched to a mac, his biggest regret is that he didn't switch SOONER..for years he fell for the FUD from other pc users about how bad the mac was yet he had problems on his pc on a daily basis, he said he didn't mind the extra cost as the mac actually worked when he needed it and because there was less troubleshooting involved with his mac he spent less time on the computer as he could get any work done quicker...once his friends saw how well it worked they all went out and got macs as well...
I like having a whole range of software to choose from so I guess it'll be Windows for me for the foreseeable future. Main problem with Macs is that I'm not willing to pay the premium (which is less now, but still significant AFAIK) and I don't really care about the design.
and that whole range would be what exactly?
Having problems with Windows "on a daily basis" says more about the ineptitude of the user than of the OS.
The one thing that I have to say about Mac is that the OS it comes with is usually the one it should stay on. Upgrades often make all hell break loose. Granted, Windows boxes can have this problem too, but it's far more forgiving. In some cases, the systems will actually run better -- I've NEVER seen that happen on a Mac box or notebook.
Buy a Mac knowing that what you have in your hands is all it will ever be. There is no upgrade, excluding maybe some RAM, or an external burner or hard drive. Everything else is stuck, leave it alone.
If you need Apple-only software, by all means, go for it.
If you want a "pretty machine" that "doesn't give problems", then skin your Windows (I do this, simply to differentiate the different boxes on the network KVM), learn how to uninstall crapware (learn how to avoid crapware/malware), and buy one of those slick systems (or slick parts for a DIY). Apple does not corner the market on style.
If you have extra money burning a hole in your pocket, any number of websites, freewares and tech charities could sure use the funding. Don't piss it away to the cult of Jobs.
Tools not on Mac: VirtualDub (filters), AVISynth, AnyDVD HD, Restream, PGCEdit, to name just a few. And NOTHING on Mac comes close to what tasks those perform. Inversely, I don't think anything can really replicate DVD Studio Pro. Pick the machine for the task at hand. Or like many of us, use them both.
Originally Posted by beavereater
20 years ago it was the only choice; PCs were used to run WordPerfect and Lotus 123 while Macs were doing DTP and video.
Since then PCs have caught up, but there is a huge momentum. Same as business people keep using PCs, graphics people on the whole have kept using Macs. In both cases it's more to do with being compatible with your peers than anything else.
Personally, if I were starting fresh, I'd probably opt for Mac, they're a lot cheaper now than when I started, one thing that put me off, but I've invested a lot of time learning my DOS and Windows apps, so I keep plugging on with them.
Originally Posted by pixel zombie
Originally Posted by lordsmurf
I also don't agree with the upgrade paths. You can upgrade everything but the board on a Mac Pro now that they are Intel-based. Same goes for a PC user. Upgrading boards is essentially upgrading the entire computer because the board is what gives your PC its identity, and also provides the scope of its upgrade path. Besides the increase Apple market share is mostly in the laptop area and laptops are notoriously stern on upgrades, Apple or not.
Over 3 years ago I quit the video biz for a traveling IT job and needed to invest in a good laptop instead of another dual-socket monster. I shopped around and narrowed down to a MacBook, Sony Vaio SZ, or a Lenovo. All three were $2200. Let me say again: all three were $2200. All three had wireless G, Bluetooth, webcams, loaded memory, dedicated video, and good battery life. The Sony had a biometric, was the lightest of the three, had dual video accelerators (via hardware switch requiring reboot), but had a 13" screen. The Lenovo had more HDD, a 15" screen, but was the heaviest by far (even though I know the previous ThinkPads were absolute tanks and could take a lot of wear and tear). The MacBook had the better optical drive, trackpad, and battery life. In the end I went with the Vaio because of the dual-video card, weight, and because Apple had yet to release Bootcamp. Many of the applications work provided me were small Windows-based diagnostics so I needed Windows at the time. They could have easily been run from a Win2k VM but I didn't learn that until later. However my Sony was a great PC and it lasted those three years of abuse and I never once had to re-install Windows. When it came time to replace that faithful machine guess what my comparisons were?FB-DIMM are the real cause of global warming