Mac vs PC: Everyone I know is getting a Mac

[rallynavvie]

Side note: Where are all of the Mac netbooks for $300USD?...oh wait ...there aren't any.

I have been hearing rumors about a Mac tablet that is supposed to compete with the netbooks. I'd be curious to see what they do with a netbook-sized machine. One of my coworkers has a Dell Mini 9 that he has installed OSX on and he likes it a lot.

Speaking of Hackintosh you all do realize that there have been great successes installing OSX on home-built PCs, right? I have an OSX VM that I toy with occasionally but unfortunately there aren't any proper video drivers that work with the virtual hardware (within VMware's environment anyway).

[creamyhorror]

You will need to buy 2-3 of the $500 laptop whose dubious build quality causes failures every 6-8 months to equal the average life expectancy of the $1000-1500 laptop (notice there is no designation Mac or PC because BOTH have laptops priced in that range). But on the plus side you'll be buying into the latest tech every 6-8 months

I don't think you can make an argument like that. Laptops of many brands often go for $500 or less (Compaq, Lenovo, HP, Acer, Dell) and surely you're not saying they're all of shitty build quality. 6-8 months resulting in failure that warrants replacement...that's just hyperbole. My $800 Dell Inspiron has served me well for over 4 years.

If you're going to spring for expensive laptops, of course you can find equivalently priced Macs. That's really not the issue. But can you find Macs which offer as much value as some PCs - that's the question.

(All this only concerns the hardware pricing/marketing of Macs. There's nothing wrong with building a Hackintosh; it's just not relevant to this argument.)

[rumplestiltskin]

I had the MSI Wind with OSX installed. It was a somewhat frustrating experience as I had to get a different WiFi card and some of the ports didn't work properly. However, it was running Leopard!

At that point, as it was essentially a Macintosh, I started expecting the same sort of experience as I was getting from my Macbook (albeit slower). Here is where it became quite easy to make what I considered to be valid complaints:

1. The trackpad and buttons on the Wind sucked. Apple pays more for a good trackpad assembly (and, frankly, if MSI hadn't cheaped out with a Sentelic instead of using a Synaptics as they had demo'd originally, it might have been a better experience. In fact, the Sentelic trackpad was so bad I started using a small pen tablet. WTF? This was a netbook and why on earth did I have to use some extra pointing device??

2. The screen was just too damn small to be really useful. Okay; I'm not going to do Final Cut Pro on it but considering the main use of a netbook is to get to the Internet, the minimal resolution combined with the tiny (10") screen made for an absolutely awful experience; it was like looking through a knothole in a fence trying to see everything that was going on behind it. Scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll...

Don't hold your breath waiting for an Apple netbook; just like BluRay "they're a bag of hurt" (to quote Steve). Those who aren't Mac fans don't really see the value of Apple products. Those of us who do use Macs appreciate the obsession with the details of both the hardware and the OS...and we're willing to pay more for it because of this obsession.

[AlanHK]

1. The trackpad and buttons on the Wind sucked. Apple pays more for a good trackpad assembly (and, frankly, if MSI hadn't cheaped out with a Sentelic instead of using a Synaptics as they had demo'd originally, it might have been a better experience. In fact, the Sentelic trackpad was so bad I started using a small pen tablet. WTF? This was a netbook and why on earth did I have to use some extra pointing device??

Slightly OT, but why the hell don't netbooks use Thinkpad-style Trackpoint button pointers?

They're great on a "normal" laptop, and would be much better than the tiny trackpads on netbooks.

(I believe there is an active hackintosh effort to put OSX on ThinkPads mainly for the Trackpoint.)

[aedipuss]

the reason some of us still won't buy any apple products is that we remember that woz and jobs are nothing but thieves. they spent years selling illegal phone phreaking equpment, in order to buy drugs. they later also stole all the parts from their employers to built the first apples. not a chance in hell i'd ever buy any apple product no matter how good it was.

[AlanHK]

the reason some of us still won't buy any apple products is that we remember that woz and jobs are nothing but thieves.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/gatesmug1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

[poisondeathray]

^ROFL!

Do they take mugshots for traffic violations in the US?

Yeah, but Mr. Gates has donated something like $10B to charity, so that makes up for a bit...(even if some it's from shareholders and unfair business practices in the EU and abroad)

[usually_quiet]

I think it is true that more people are showing interest in Macs. My brother-in-law said he and my sister (both over 50) are considering a Mac for their next family computer. Their kids used them in secondary school, and liked them. I also think they believe the product advertising is accurate.

Maybe it would be the right choice for them. They have never opened any of the 4 desktop PCs they have owned to upgrade anything or even to blow the dust out. AFAIK the only software that they use is MS Office, Outlook Express, IE, and the software that came with their digital cameras. They want a computer that just works and does what they need it to do, without requiring any effort on their part to maintain. I don't blame them, since they have zero interest in computers per se and very little free time to tinker with hardware or software.

I am sure they find the concept of a computer that is unlikely to be infected by viruses very appealing. Their current machine is a Dell, about 5 years old. and it is running slow. They screwed it up themselves 6 months ago by failing to install their McAfee security software package correctly. Unfortunately I live much too far away to run over and help them fix their problems and they don't have the time or interest to learn to fix it themselves.

[lordsmurf]

They needed a change and MAC is "different" and "trendy".

I know Apple and Mac-heads love to fight the cliche, but I've noticed a high percentage of "different" users through the years. Apple even donated money to their cause in 2008. Joining the Apple cult had nothing to do with the specs or software, it was all about the "style" for these folks.

I buy computers as professional tools, not artwork or decoration. I just don't understand that mindset.

[rallynavvie]

I buy computers as professional tools, not artwork or decoration. I just don't understand that mindset.

As do I. There are few things that I own that are form>function. I build my desktops, have for years, and they have been quality machines. About the fanciest thing on my current workstation is the Lian Li case which was expensive but should last me many years and through at least a couple more systems. Apple has been combining form and function for a while. The iPod and iPhone are simple design and functional. The new MBP's unibody aluminum construction is clean and simple. My old Vaio's silver finish was starting to wear off after three years, I wouldn't expect a chunk of aluminum like the MBP to wear similarly because it doesn't have a painted finish.

That 3-year old Vaio is still faster than many new laptops I've seen people buy. If I'm going to spend $2k on a laptop I want it to last at least 3 years as I don't need to keep up with latest tech for laptops. I have a desktop for heavy-duty work, the laptop is my portable workstation for when I'm traveling so build quality and longevity are going to be more important for me than money saved or a longer list of features. That Vaio never had any hardware malfunctions and I never even had to re-install XP Pro from the original installation I bought it with (other than trimming the crapware out of it). Had I taken a risk with a cheaper laptop and it died while I was on the road I would have been in a world of trouble. It just wasn't worth the risk to save a few bucks.

[lordsmurf]

My two HP laptops are 3 years old -- both are fine. Each was about $1,000

[creamyhorror]

Ultimately it comes down to how much you trust particular brands and models to deliver reliability. I've not had hardware fail on me yet (besides some custom-assembled parts) so I'm not at all averse to buying cheaper machines. But of course I'm just a student and not a professional with critical needs.

[tgpo]

My biggest gripe when I was an Apple user was the feeling of being locked in. For many tasks, you had maybe three alternatives to the official Apple software. In recent years, it's gotten better as more people have begun to switch and developers take notice, but the feeling of isolation wasn't a selling point for me towards the end of my Apple usage.

[lordsmurf]

tgpo stopped using Mac ??????!!!!!!!!!!!

[tgpo]

tgpo stopped using Mac ??????!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep. I'm now a Linux Mint user on a Dell Mini 9.

[rallynavvie]

Do you have a lesser feeling of "isolation" with Linux now?

[tgpo]

Do you have a lesser feeling of "isolation" with Linux now?

Yep. Now I have tons of options for every aspect of use. Everything has many alternative programs and options. I'm not locked in to anything. So I have complete freedom.

[ffooky]

You sound like you've been kidnapped by an FOSS cell...do you want us to contact your family ?

[SatStorm]

TGPO is a linux user...

Things really change over the years...

[du2vye]

I gotta weigh in on this one. I have a Mac and the support I needed dropped to almost zero. I don't run into conflicts between programs anymore and I don't have to run updates regularly. I don't have to defrag and there's no 'system registry' to figure out what start up programs are running. No more lost work and no more blue screen of death. Mac's seem to fix themselves with a reboot. That saves time.

As far as I'm concerned, a computer is a tool to get something done and then I want off. The end.

I can't even drag and drop MS Office to the trash. An uninstall program? Yuck. I don't think I even could update a pc anymore. That's enough for me to buy an older powerbook than hassle with a new laptop with Vista on it. Buying a new laptop seems the most "stylish" and "trendy".

Add the new mac's run both windows and os x, the best of both, and there's no decision required.

[aedipuss]

I gotta weigh in on this one. I have a Mac and the support I needed dropped to almost zero. I don't run into conflicts between programs anymore and I don't have to run updates regularly. I don't have to defrag and there's no 'system registry' to figure out what start up programs are running. No more lost work and no more blue screen of death. Mac's seem to fix themselves with a reboot. That saves time.

As far as I'm concerned, a computer is a tool to get something done and then I want off. The end.

I can't even drag and drop MS Office to the trash. An uninstall program? Yuck. I don't think I even could update a pc anymore. That's enough for me to buy an older powerbook than hassle with a new laptop with Vista on it. Buying a new laptop seems the most "stylish" and "trendy".

Add the new mac's run both windows and os x, the best of both, and there's no decision required.

all that just reinforces the old stereotype that macs are for the technically challenged artsy types.

[cnolan011]

all that just reinforces the old stereotype that macs are for the technically challenged artsy types.

i am an oracle developer, and a java enterprise app developer, . . . i work all day on an ubuntu box, mostly in a terminal, actually numerous terminals, i do a lot of shell scripting to get things done (perl, bash, python). at home i have a very beefy windows machine, built by me over the years, . . . probably dump 1000-2000 a year on it, . . . I have an unbuntu (9.0.4 running at init 3) box hooked up to HD-PVR that is hooked up to my 42" HDTV, this past year i purchased (nov'08) a late model 15" MBP, with the dual vids on it, the reason, to edit video, . . . i didnt want a hot, heavy, machine to sit on my lap while sitting on the coach to edit video on. also, i love the unix core, . . . it allows me to live in a terminal for all the stuff i like to do, . . . . use all the cl apps i use at work, or to move files around the way i like to do it, on the CL, . . .
i really like FCS a lot, i like the way all the apps are broken up, and i like the easy export features, as i do not make DVDs that often, but when I do I like using DVD studio pro more than anything else i have ever used on windows.
the only reason why i have my windows machine still running window and not Ubuntu is that we have our main iTunes library on it, otherwise it is just a file server. capture movies on my ubuntu box, edit them on my MBP, SCP them to my windows machine, . . .
so i would say for technical people linux>mac>windows
and i work with a lot of geek people and most of them use osX, and linux, or just plain linux, but none of them use windows, . . . i have no idea where people get off saying that geek use windows, . . . window users that want to be geeks use windows, but don't know what to do when the they are restricted to the command line
oh yeah forgot to mention, i run VirtualDub on my mac, but i don't have a single need for it anymore.

[aedipuss]

i produce/edit video and do small scale website creation. if linux could run vegas/pp cs4/editstudio/mpeg video wizard/dvdlabpro/photoshop/expression web/etc natively without being in a virtual machine i'd go there. i've built and tried several flavors of linux over the years, and it is improving. i've also built hackintoshes, but find them slower, more cumbersome, and not nearly complete in software availability then windows running on the same hardware. so i'd list the geekiness factor as linux>pc>mac.

i'm only speaking of macs desktop/tower type boxes. not any sort of laptop machine, that's a different beast, not useful at all for what i do.

[cnolan011]

i produce/edit video and do small scale website creation. if linux could run vegas/pp cs4/editstudio/mpeg video wizard/dvdlabpro/photoshop/expression web/etc natively without being in a virtual machine i'd go there. i've built and tried several flavors of linux over the years, and it is improving. i've also built hackintoshes, but find them slower, more cumbersome, and not nearly complete in software availability then windows running on the same hardware. so i'd list the geekiness factor as linux>pc>mac.

i'm only speaking of macs desktop/tower type boxes. not any sort of laptop machine, that's a different beast, not useful at all for what i do.

if i could do what i want to do video wise on linux as well, i would, but i can't, so i don't.
i do not pretend know what is best for video on what platform, but my response is only really in reference to the whole Windows people are more technical than Mac people, and in the context of computer geeks, . . . video wise i like my current setup a lot, . . . i also produce short 2-5 minute videos shot in AVDHD, which has a very simple workflow in final cut studio, . . . when the new mac pro towers come out i am going to purchase a real beefy one so i can produce long videos and off load the encoding and color work on that machine

i have to say that most of you guys that use the whole virtualdub stuff on windows are pretty technically sound, and know a lot more about video that i do