Mac vs PC: Everyone I know is getting a Mac

[lordsmurf]

I have never seen a Mac cost the same spec-for-spec, with a Windows machine.

[MacDSL]

I have never seen a Mac cost the the same in Support, spec-for-spec, with a Windows machine.

[poisondeathray]

I would put the type of people that "pay for support" or buy prebuilt crap like Dells in a different category than hardware enthusiasts or people that build their own machines, like the OP

Dells and Macs are great for certain types of people. And if it meets your requirements...great...that's all that matters

[creamyhorror]

What's wrong with Dells, they're cheap when you get them on discount Then you add RAM and a graphics card yourself

[poisondeathray]

What's wrong with Dells, they're cheap when you get them on discount Then you add RAM and a graphics card yourself

Nothing is "wrong" per se. They are fine for certain users and the price is great (price for Dells that is, not for Macs...)

From a hardware perspective, the problem is they use lower quality components , proprietary mobo designs, and have locked BIOS. = you can't overclock or modify things very easily. Same with macs which are EFI based. You can use hacks...but they don't work very well

Custom built PC is much much faster. You can easily overclock 20-30% on stock volts and stock cooler. 40-60% is average for custom aftermarket cooing. Render times are that much faster. More time is spent in idle state (or even off) = smaller electricity bill and everyone goes home earlier.

You can even build a PC based "hackintosh" , when overclocked is much faster than a regular mac even with the overhead of OSX86. This way you get the best hardware, and ability to use MAC OS (not that there is much benefit IMO). Add triple boot linux and you have everything from a software/user perspective

Hardware and power users that custom build and overclock never touch macs (true macs) or Dells/Gateways etc... They are too slow

Under the hood, the CPU can be the same Nehalem chip. Intel chips have the potential to fly, but not when handcuffed to a Mac or Dell motherboard. It's like racing the Nurburgring in a Ferrari... but being stuck in 1st gear... With a flat tire... And a 300lb fat lady riding shotgun... but at least she has a white shiny Gucci purse

[Noahtuck]

Sorry but...
Mac's suck, Dell's suck, Gateway's suck, E-machines suck, Compaq's suck, ect. ect. ect.

The only good PC is a PC you build from scratch yourself & install windows or any other OS yourself.

I learned this the hardway when my 2nd PC i bought was a prebuilt, some 12, 13+ years ago.
It was returned to CompUSA within 3 days and i have never bought a prebuilt since, & nothing has changed as far as prebuilts go.

[ffooky]

Genuine question, can one build a laptop with an acceptable form factor ?

[aedipuss]

there are some "barebones" type kits. these guys make some nice parts.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/diy_notebooks/

[ffooky]

Thanks aedipuss, very interesting. The one of the 15"ers has an NVIDIA 8600M GT card...might pass on that one

[Nelson37]

However bad the Dell, or Gateway, or E-machine might be is, IMO, simply not relevant. They are what the public wants. To the average PC user, a computer is something that runs Windows, Internet Explorer, and Outlook or Outlook Express. They have never heard of Firefox, or Thunderbird, and if you try to push these on them they wonder why they are not using what everybody else uses.

Filet Mignon is clearly Better than hamburger. However, drive-thru Filet Mignon restaurants are fairly rare. If you are going to sell meat to the general public, hamburger is a better product because that is what people will buy.

It is very hard to make a buck trying to educate folks on which is better, I gave up on that concept years ago. The public wants what the public wants; telling them that what they want is crap is a fast road to the poorhouse.

I'll give an example from another business I know well. On almost all pianos other than grand pianos, the third pedal is functionally useless, and has been for almost 100 years. Several companies have attempted to eliminate it, I used to spend a lot of time explaining why it was useless and only two pedals were needed. The two-pedal models did not sell, the manufacturers quit making them, we quit stocking them, I quit trying to explain. Even though less expensive, and a better dollar value, the public simply did not want the product.

A piano has three pedals, and a PC runs Windows. Those who know the difference about the piano are about as rare as those who could set up and run a VM.

I could probably do about half to three-quarters of what I use a PC for on a Mac. I can do ALL of it on a PC.

[rallynavvie]

The analyst in me would like to compare my Vaio's replacement options by the numbers

The SZ is retired and the Z series is now the portable powerhouse. This one was near the top of my list:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834117945
And let's compare it to the MBP at a similar price point. First listed is Vaio, second is MBP.

Price (MSRP): $2249 < $1999
CPU: C2D 2.53 < C2D 2.66
RAM: 4GB DDR3 = 4GB DDR3
HDD: 128GB SSD > 320GB SATA (though the 128GB SSD is $300 to bring them near the same price)
Video: Dual (GMA4500MHD + 256MB 9300M GS) < Dual (GMA9400M + 256MB 9600M GT)
Display: 13.3" LED-lit < 15" LED-lit
Optical: DVD-DL writer = DVD-DL writer
Network: GbE and wireless N = GbE and wireless N
Bluetooth: Yes = Yes
USB ports: 2 = 2
FireWire: 1394a < 1394b
Video Out: HDMI and VGA > Dual-link DVI, DVI, or VGA by dongle only
Card Readers: Memory Stick and SD > SD
Expansion: ExpressCard > none
Input: trackpad < multi-touch trackpad
Biometric: yes > no
Battery Life: 6 hours < 7 hours
Weight: 3.3 lbs > 5.5 lbs

Equal marks = 5
Favor Vaio = 6
Favor Apple = 7

So the MBP slightly edged out the high-end Sony. I was basing them mostly on price point. There is a $2300 MBP which then loses the price battle by $50 but you get faster CPU, larger HDD, and double the VRAM. For some people the biometric, SSD, ExpressCard slot, and built in video out are more important than screen size, CPU speed, input device, FireWire800, and battery life.

There are no clear winners here. But we can't keep beating the dead horse of price point. Find some other reasons to bash on MacBooks

[Noahtuck]

However bad the Dell, or Gateway, or E-machine might be is, IMO, simply not relevant. They are what the public wants. To the average PC user, a computer is something that runs Windows, Internet Explorer, and Outlook or Outlook Express. They have never heard of Firefox, or Thunderbird, and if you try to push these on them they wonder why they are not using what everybody else uses.

Oh i know, i was just saying in reply to a couple other comments.
The general public are basically one big heard of sheep.

Filet Mignon is clearly Better than hamburger. However, drive-thru Filet Mignon restaurants are fairly rare. If you are going to sell meat to the general public, hamburger is a better product because that is what people will buy.

And it's been probably 20 years since i had a hamburger, but i'm having Filet Mignon this friday

[edDV]

I don't agree the Jobs vision is better for everyone, certainly not for me. To be 100% Mac, you need to be a follower. Like the Army you are told what to do, how to do it and when to update or replace your machine. Deviation is not tolerated. Just follow the Mac forums. If you need re-education, they have Mac camps. In many ways a Mac is for the "non-creative".

I now have two Mac computers. One is for consumer level general use and it serves resonably well for basic DVD release. For video production I have one for outside generated Mac projects that need finishing. The uncompressed FCP model can get very expensive. The FCP Mac is far from a consumer machine but works for well financed teams.

[creamyhorror]

rallynavvie: I don't know how fair the price point issue really is, but I've not seen really low-price deals for Macs, unlike PCs. I suppose it's partly because PC retailers have greater volume and so can afford to offer some at even lower prices.

PDR: Probably true about overclocking (which I don't do much of), but I don't have the impression that my current custom-assembled PC could do much overclocking anyway (are Dell's coolers that much inferior to these stcok ones?). But the fact that the BIOSs are locked makes it a bit of a non-issue.

I guess I'd have a reason to consider switching to Mac if I started hearing of useful programs that were only available for it. And if they came down in price further. But it'd still only be consideration

[Noahtuck]

Seriously..

What amazes me, maybe it's just me, but i see iMac's , mac's, for sale & the people selling them want like double what you can build a better NEW PC for, & the iMacs or mac's are USED!!!
Half the specs, power, you can build a PC for!!


Like this one i just saw,

17" iMac, 150 GB Hard Drive with a 2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Processor, 1 GB RAM, Built in i-Sight, Bluetooth, and Wi-Fi, DVD-RW SuperDrive (It will burn both DVD's and CD's), Includes original Apple keyboard and Apple Mouse along with the original box. Also includes the Apple Manuals, $750

Heck!! it includes the ORIGNIAL keyboard and apple mouse!!!
I am so on it!!!!!!
LOL!!

Sorry, but as other's have stated, try to upgrade a Mac, in any way shape or form!!!
Software OR hardware!!!

[videopoo]

Tools not on Mac: VirtualDub (filters), AVISynth, AnyDVD HD, Restream, PGCEdit, to name just a few. And NOTHING on Mac comes close to what tasks those perform. Inversely, I don't think anything can really replicate DVD Studio Pro. Pick the machine for the task at hand. Or like many of us, use them both.

DVD AfterEdit is a must have for me. Its simply the finest DVD pre-mastering tool around. Done tons of complete re-authors with it too. Also FCP studio is a must for me as well since all my clients have the same. Add the fact it works with RED footage. Never met a person doing professional video work with Premier or Vegas...at least not in my market.

I don't particularly want to use a Mac.... but have to

[rallynavvie]

Sorry, but as other's have stated, try to upgrade a Mac, in any way shape or form!!!
Software OR hardware!!!

I can upgrade my PC about as much as one can upgrade a Mac Pro

Actually, the new Mac Pro beats my specs and cost almost the same as what I built mine for

[lordsmurf]

Where can I find these terrific prices on new Macs? Prices and links to stores, please. I can see myself spending $500 on a Mac notebook. Maybe even up to $1,000 at most, but the 3-digit range is better. I can, after all, find at least a dozen or more such Windows machines, at those prices, all over the place.

I don't need a $2,000 laptop (that is monetarily retarded).

The best price I can find on an OS X machine is a refurb Mac mini for about $450 from Microcenter. The specs are barely passable.

[terryj]

Where can I find these terrific prices on new Macs? Prices and links to stores, please. I can see myself spending $500 on a Mac notebook. Maybe even up to $1,000 at most, but the 3-digit range is better.

Smurfy:

$500

Sorry closest I could get for a decent desktop was $899.
$500, even minis at that price, I admidt are lacking substantially.

$1000 Desktops

http://www.lacomputercompany.com/cgi-bin/rpcart/index.cgi?command=dispitem&type=sku&sku=25985

http://www.lacomputercompany.com/cgi-bin/rpcart/index.cgi?command=dispitem&type=sku&sku=25807

$1000 Laptops

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB467LL/A?mco=Nzk2MzY0MA

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB990LL/A?mco=Nzk3MDMwNQ

http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=8252974

http://techrestore.com/xcart/product.php?productid=18047&cat=437&page=1

http://www.lacomputercompany.com/cgi-bin/rpcart/index.cgi?command=dispitem&type=sku&sku=26559
( a little over a $1000 I admit)


Deals abound everywhere. The secret to buying a Mac is like anything else: Shop, Compare, Purchase.
And long time Mac Heads know that to get the best deals on Mac hardware, never buy new,
buy Refurbed and save a bit on cost. With Apple rev'ing every machine model every year,
it makes more sense to save a bit of cash buying the model just released 6 months ago that
is $300 to $500 less than retail.

[rallynavvie]

Where can I find these terrific prices on new Macs? Prices and links to stores, please. I can see myself spending $500 on a Mac notebook. Maybe even up to $1,000 at most, but the 3-digit range is better. I can, after all, find at least a dozen or more such Windows machines, at those prices, all over the place.

I don't need a $2,000 laptop (that is monetarily retarded).

The best price I can find on an OS X machine is a refurb Mac mini for about $450 from Microcenter. The specs are barely passable.

But there are Windows PCs that cost as much as a MacBook in abundance on NewEgg, therefor the simple argument of price between Mac and Windows laptops is moot. Your argument is now simply that spending more than $1000 on a laptop is stupid, not Windows vs Mac.

And I can buy generic brand groceries and household items yet I shop at Target instead of WalMart, so it must just be that I am an elitist pig

[lordsmurf]

The specs of a $500 NEW Windows laptop match that (beat that!) of $1000 Mac USED systems.

[rallynavvie]

The specs of a $500 NEW Windows laptop match that (beat that!) of $1000 Mac USED systems.

You will need to buy 2-3 of the $500 laptop whose dubious build quality causes failures every 6-8 months to equal the average life expectancy of the $1000-1500 laptop (notice there is no designation Mac or PC because BOTH have laptops priced in that range). But on the plus side you'll be buying into the latest tech every 6-8 months

[rhegedus]

...they are all about the MAC and how it out performs any PC.

Bollocks!

Unless they are all running dual quad cores, I don't see how they can justify their opinions.

COI: PC and Mac user

[MOVIEGEEK]

Why pay twice as much for a Mac when you can get the same features on a PC?
You can get a nice new PC(laptop or desktop) for $700USD, I doubt you can even buy a Mac for less than $1000.

[rallynavvie]

Why pay twice as much for a Mac when you can get the same features on a PC?
You can get a nice new PC(laptop or desktop) for $700USD, I doubt you can even buy a Mac for less than $1000.

That argument is already null in this thread, we've already proven there are Windows laptops that cost just as much as a Macbook and contain equivalent pros/cons. If we want to extend that argument to a home-built PC I am prepared to price out my rig to the current equivalent Mac Pro, but after looking at the $3300 monster it might be closer than you think. I just don't want to have to do another exhaustive write-up that people are just going to ignore again :P

[MacDSL]

Anyone else notice that the original poster of the question has not bothered checking back in?

I'm just sayin'.......

[MOVIEGEEK]

That argument is already null in this thread, we've already proven there are Windows laptops that cost just as much as a Macbook and contain equivalent pros/cons.

Sorry but the argument is still valid for the vast majority of Windows laptops.
Side note: Where are all of the Mac netbooks for $300USD?...oh wait ...there aren't any.

[Supreme2k]

And I can buy generic brand groceries and household items yet I shop at Target instead of WalMart, so it must just be that I am an elitist pig

I have no real argument about the topic. I simply think that you should use what you are comfortable with and gets the job done (though it's hard to reconcile the two).

My real comment is, I have never seen "I shop at Target" and "I am an elitist pig" in the same sentence. Ever.

[ffooky]

MOVIEGEEK, do you do much video work on a netbook ? Anyway, Mini 9/10v

[SatStorm]

Many 30somethings buy MACs those days, just because they need a change. Most of them use to have a 8 year old PC, that use to run for the last 8 years Win XP. So, the world around them change and their PC remained the same. They needed a change and MAC is "different" and "trendy".

I think, the average person needs a computer on home, that it is different from the one he/she has on work. MACs are "different" and the marketing teached around the years that it is "easy" and "friendly", while linux is "difficult".