Panasonic GH1 consideration

[1handclapping]

Make a movie, but some of us need to do the best we can on a low budget and unless you hadn't noticed, good writers and actors like to see their work realized with the highest production values possible.

Those of us who look at these alternatives aren't trying to reinvent movie technology, just take advantage of our knowledge of it to get the most bang for the buck out of what's available.

[edDV]

Process development should be separate from shooting a serious movie. Get the process right, then shoot your movie.

If you can't afford development, use a proven process.

[1handclapping]

Yeah, that's why Hitchcock pushed new techniques for glass painting when he couldn't shoot in the British Museum, Lucas developed new methods for digital camera control, and Kubrick had new lenses invented to shoot Barry Lyndon by candlelight, or for that matter, ENG groups started using consumer camcorders to cover events when it was impossible to use a bigger professional camera -- since when are there bounds on production creativity?

Creative innovation in process and technique is every bit as valid as creativity in writing or acting or any other aspect of a production.

Lighten up, edDV...

[1handclapping]

And yes, you have to test new methods before you use them to make sure they'll work, but that's just common sense when you're innovating.

[edDV]

And yes, you have to test new methods before you use them to make sure they'll work, but that's just common sense when you're innovating.

But isn't that what is being proposed? I'm afraid the movie comes second when you insist on new untried equipment ahead of getting the job done. Many projects are dead ended that way.

[1handclapping]

I hate to remind you of this, but a number of people used a RED4k system in production for the first time -- you seem to be saying they were wrong to do that.

So I'm mystified by what you're saying.

Are you implying that the GH1 won't be able to capture decent video? There are a number of examples already online of it doing a lovely job as long as you're not interested in fast pans.

Most of the film I shoot has very little camera motion in it, but the image quality sure matters. I already own a fairly comprehensive set of Leica R lenses which would sure be nice to use for video -- I like Panny's Lumix & Dicomar zooms, but I have no doubt that the my Leica primes will look better under some conditions.

As for sound, I already shoot double system because it's more convenient not to always be running cables to the camera and wireless mic's and the camera's record capability are OK for ENG, but not quite as good as a 24bit 96k/sampled direct recording from a really good mic.

Actually for me, the major issue will be switching to AVCHD in post, but most of the camcorders I've considered as alternatives will put me through that

[poisondeathray]

The problem is GH1's AVCHD implementation is not very good. It really needs a much higher bitrate cap because of no CABAC, no b-frames.

Have you considered the 7D ? or is that out of the price range?

At least with the 7D you have 3x the bitrate

[1handclapping]

So far, on this thread, the most interesting question I've seen raised is the single sensor/shutter artifact question. So far, the 24P footage I've looked at online seems no worse than my DVX100B or the HMC150 samples I've looked at, but maybe I've missed something -- again, camera motion is not so important to the stuff I shoot.

[poisondeathray]

Have you looked at the native footage? or re-encoded stuff? It really is quite poor on the GH1

You might be able to get away with it if you shoot motionless all day.

This is just from a technical view. I'm sure great content , shooting and post production can make a lower quality footage look very good

[1handclapping]

I am considering the 7D as well as the GH1.

[1handclapping]

I've looked at native footage... I thought it looked great... maybe you're looking at compression artifacts...

[1handclapping]

BTW I'm interested in how people think the HMC40 stacks up against the HMC150...

[1handclapping]

PDray, can you point me to a site with the awful GH1 footage you're talking about?

[poisondeathray]

I checked out about 10 different native streams on several different sites. I posted a link earlier in this thread. Just google for it there are lots of samples out there for the GH1. Put it this way, I couldn't find a single example that looked ok...maybe you have a link ?

It's not so much compression artifacts such as DCT ringing or noise, but rather smearing, oversmoothing and lack of detail. This is characteristic of poor h.264 implementations and/or inadequate bitrate for the complexity of the content. If you are going for a "filmic" look this wouldn't be ideal hardware. It would be very unforgiving.

I'm just talking mainly about the recording compression here. i.e. It doesn't matter if you have a $5K lens, perfect lighting etc... if you can't capture any of that properly... Of course there are many other factors to consider as you have already mentioned in this thread (12min limitation on the 7D to name a big one...)

The 7D shoots baseline AVC profile, no CABAC or b-frames (i.e. low specs as well) - but it has ~3x the bitrate to attempt make up for it, and the image quality difference shows

This is a processed short on vimeo from Philip Bloom shot with the 7D (already 30K hits in a few hours ...)
http://vimeo.com/6475938

You can download an unprocessed segment here to examine (click on download original)
http://exposureroom.com/members/philipbloom.aspx/assets/0b8e68acc32349378168a568c69816ef/

Not too much stuff out on the HMC40 yet. 1st impressions here , but no comparisons yet.
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?p=1739859#post1739859

[aedipuss]

This is a processed short on vimeo from Philip Bloom shot with the 7D (already 30K hits in a few hours ...)
http://vimeo.com/6475938

interesting. he knows how to edit to minimize the rolling shutter effect. absolutely no in focus horizontal movement onscreen.

have you looked at the "rejouer" gh1 movie trailer? they needed to pay a little more attention to the r.s. this is a guys head shot as he's running upright past the gh1. thankfully out of focus also. there's also some fast pans that create things like a telephone booth going 45 degrees off kilter. pretty annoying.






snapshot_rejouer1.png

[inspirevideo]

Some useful links

Using H4n with DSLR
http://www.vimeo.com/4782593

GH1 info and film
http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/05/21/eu-launch-of-gh1-and-new-gh1-short-joshua-tree/

I have both the GH1 and the ZOOM H4n, absolutely love them both, only crit would be the GH1's 1080i mode is rubbish, stick to the 720p, video quality is really good and one big plus for me is being able to set ISO or gain as we call it in video, on the HV20 the other cam you mentioned there is a way to figure out whether it is adding gain or not but its a hassle and would put me off it for more professional use (although saying that I have one of those too and really like it for personal use) philip bloom also did some stuff with the HV20 and a DOF adaptor some time ago which you may have seen, looked great but the no manual gain is a big pain for me.

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