Full HD camera, burn on HD on DVD, etc?

[godwentpunk]

Some companies (slugs) often repackage others rippers, authors, and converters for a year or two then rename them once again to avoid detection. With video now exploding, it's little wonder that everybody wants to be a producer of sorts...even if it just means rehashing other's work.

I'm not saying this is the case here...just a heads up.

Your DVD needs to be made to specs or it won't play.
Read up on "What is DVD" on the left menu.

That would explain things. I found about 4 different vendors with basically the same application with just a little different UI.

As for DVD spec's, here is the road I'm going down> I purchases a 1TB external drive to store all of my HD videos. I'll convert those to standard DVD format for non-HD tv's. At some point, I'll go completely HD but for now, I'll just store my videos. Plus, the price of memory (class 6) is pretty expensive.

I really was just wishing for the best of both worlds however, I am a dog with a bone and I won't let go. I'll find a happy medium with my DVD's will work on both standard and HD tv's (and where the picture quality works good for both).

The Emicsoft site looks a bit dodgy. If it's really turning out 720p DVD-video, then the software certainly is dodgy. If you put it in a normal DVD player, it's almost definitely not going to play.

Which Emicsoft software did you use?

I used their MTS conversion tool only.
joe...

[godwentpunk]

@godwentpunk

to load a not listed video format in AVStoDVD you have just to select "All files (*.*)" and then choose your video file. BTW in the next release I will add mts (MPEG 2/4 TS) files to the available list.

About the ChangeFPS error, could you post here the whole script?

Remember, try to not use AssumeFPS for A/V frame rate conversion. It causes out of sync errors. From the AviSynth doc:

The AssumeFPS filter changes the frame rate without changing the frame count (causing the video to play faster or slower).

Bye

Here is the script that does not work.

>>>
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\AVStoDVD\Lib\FFMpegSource.dll")

Video = FFmpegSource("D:\CamcorderMov\00007.MTS", vtrack = -1, atrack = -2, vcachefile = "D:\CamcorderMov\temp\A2DFFV_" + String(Rand()) + ".cache", seekmode = 0)
Video = Video.ConvertToYV12(interlaced = true)
Video = Video.ChangeFPS(25)
Video = Video.Lanczos4Resize(720,576)

Return Video
<<<

If I replace Video = Video.ChangeFPS(25) with Video = Video.AssumeFPS(25, 1, true) then I do not get the error.

joe...

[creamyhorror]

If your source is interlaced, you can't just Lanczos4Resize it, that'll mess up the fields AFAIK. Also, in this situation, I wonder why it's appropriate to use ChangeFPS(25). Clarification, MrC/anyone?

[_MrC_]

@godwentpunk

FFMpegSource could be the cause. Switch to A2DSource (which is the default option) and retry with ChangeFPS(25). If it does not work try with ChangeFPS(25,false).

@creamyhorror

if you are encoding with mpeg2 interlaced flag on, you are just keeping fields as they are. Why ChangeFPS is not appropriate? What would you use to downsize fps?



Bye

[creamyhorror]

if you are encoding with mpeg2 interlaced flag on, you are just keeping fields as they are.

If you resize the interlaced video directly with Lanczos4, aren't you going to cause blending or other problems? At minimum, shouldn't you SeparateFields() before Lanczos4Resize(), then Weave() after that?

Actually, the best solution would be to deinterlace the footage, resize, and encode a progressive DVD. No?

edit: No, I was wrong. Seems like DVD encoding is more troublesome than I thought.

Why ChangeFPS is not appropriate? What would you use to downsize fps?

I was just wondering why the framerate needed to be reduced.

[_MrC_]

edit: No, I was wrong. Seems like DVD encoding is more troublesome than I thought.

Not at all, just a bit of experience...

I was just wondering why the framerate needed to be reduced.

It is needed because PAL DVD spec requires 25 fps. And his input transport stream was a Full HD that is usually encoded at 50 or 60 fps.



Bye

[creamyhorror]

Not at all, just a bit of experience...

I sure need more of that But what about my point about resizing an interlaced stream? People I've asked don't know if Lanczos is interlace-safe, and all recommend separating fields before resizing, then weaving them back together.

It is needed because PAL DVD spec requires 25 fps. And his input transport stream was a Full HD that is usually encoded at 50 or 60 fps.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

[redwudz]

I'm a bit confused, but maybe I missed something. I see PAL video mentioned a few times, but you seem to be in NTSC land.

I was able to use emicsoft to convert my .mts files to DVD - PAL (mpeg2) .vob files at 720x567.

(And that should be 720 X 576) But if you are making NTSC videos, it really should be 720 X 480 @ 29.97fps if you want a NTSC DVD.

Or are those just typos?

[godwentpunk]

@godwentpunk

FFMpegSource could be the cause. Switch to A2DSource (which is the default option) and retry with ChangeFPS(25). If it does not work try with ChangeFPS(25,false).

1. switched to A2DSource
2. updated script to ChangeFPS(25,false)

I now get an error "No frames to encode"


joe...

[godwentpunk]

Some good news!

It looks like I had to update my Haali Media Splitter to the most recent version as well as using A2DSource. I now can use AVStoDVD to take my .mts files, convert them into a DVD file stream and burn that to a DVD...which looks good on a HDTV and my regular TV. The best thing is, using these tools cost me $0 so I'll need to make some donations to the developers at some point. My next battle if trying to figure out how to combine multiple .mts files into 1. Otherwise, I can probably trick the system without using chapters, right??

Also, what kind of pfs and bitrate should I be seeing? I set up the system to use 9000 kbps (and I'm seeing an average around 8500) but my fps is about 6. Are these bad values? Will a higher value of each produce a better product? How can increase these values?

thanks,

joe...

[_MrC_]

But what about my point about resizing an interlaced stream? People I've asked don't know if Lanczos is interlace-safe, and all recommend separating fields before resizing, then weaving them back together.

From AviSynth documentation about LanczosResize filter, I cannot find any warning about resizing interlaced sources. And I have converted (and resized) several interlaced videos without having visual artefact on my good old (non progressive) CRT TV.

Could you please post the source of the recommendation to separate fields before resizing? Just to better understand.



Bye

[Gavino]

It's not specific to Lanczos - any vertical resizing of interlaced material will introduce an error unless done in a special way. If you simply resize it with a standard resizer, pixels from the two fields will be blended together in the output pixels - it's a simple matter of geometry.

You either need to deinterlace before resizing, or resize each field individually, allowing for the vertical offset between them (which changes on resize).

If the resizing ratio is close to 1, the effects of doing it the wrong way might not be very visible, but they are there.

[creamyhorror]

Here's a link concerning separating fields before doing denoising and resizing:

See section 7.2.11: Processing interlaced video

Other encoders I've asked have said that they don't assume Lanczos is interlace-safe so they always separate fields. I can't find a direct source in 5 mins of googling, though.

We can always test it out on some footage, no doubt.

[Gavino]

Other encoders I've asked have said that they don't assume Lanczos is interlace-safe so they always separate fields.

As I said, it's nothing specific to Lanczos - any normal resizer will mess up interlaced material (unless the resizing is horizontal only). That's obvious if you think about what a resizer does.

Resizing involves calculating new pixel values by interpolating/combining the original ones. On an interlaced image, this results in pixels from the two fields being blended with each other, destroying the field structure.

Even the fairly common method of SeparateFields.Resize.Weave is not strictly correct, because the resize alters the spatial offset between the two fields.

[creamyhorror]

As I said, it's nothing specific to Lanczos - any normal resizer will mess up interlaced material (unless the resizing is horizontal only). That's obvious if you think about what a resizer does.

I certainly agree and understand what you've said. I'm just saying that I haven't heard if Lanczos is interlace-safe, and I personally think it's pretty unlikely that it is. Any naive resizing operation is, as you say, going to destroy field structure.

Even the fairly common method of SeparateFields.Resize.Weave is not strictly correct, because the resize alters the spatial offset between the two fields.

Also understood. DS suggested deinterlacing with a simple bobber. What do you think is the best approach if starting and ending with interlaced?

[_MrC_]

That's what I found about resizing interlaced source:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=74906&highlight=interlaced

There is a very handy resize function by scharfis_brain that should do the job correctly. What do you think?

Thanks to creamyhorror to have pointed out this issue. Learning never ends.



Bye

[creamyhorror]

There is a very handy resize function by scharfis_brain that should do the job correctly. What do you think?

That looks good!

[Gavino]

I'm just saying that I haven't heard if Lanczos is interlace-safe, and I personally think it's pretty unlikely that it is.

I'm telling you it is not! None of the standard Avisynth resizers are, as basically they all work the same way.
In any case, the resizers don't know whether a clip is interlaced or not, so can't treat them any differently.

DS suggested deinterlacing with a simple bobber. What do you think is the best approach if starting and ending with interlaced?

A simple bob is often enough, depending on the amount of resizing and the quality of the input.
If not, move up to smarter (and slower) bobbers such as Yadif or LeakKernelDeint, or even the much slower MC varieties.

[creamyhorror]

I'm telling you it is not! None of the standard Avisynth resizers are, as basically they all work the same way.
In any case, the resizers don't know whether a clip is interlaced or not, so can't treat them any differently.

Keep in mind that it was me who was pointing out to _MrC_ that his program shouldn't resize interlaced material directly...

All the same, it's good info you've given. Thanks.

[godwentpunk]

I did want to ask this questions again if anyone can answer it.

It looks like during my recoding process from .mts to DVD using AVStoDVD, I'm getting an average for 7-8 fps. Is that typical? Should I see something better? If this is low, what is cause of that and how can I correct this. What is the effect on the resulted DVD is I'm only getting 7-8 fps???

joe...

[_MrC_]

The only effect is that you have to wait some time....

Jokes apart, when source/output is full hd, is absolutely normal to have very low decoding/encoding speed. A faster CPU could help.



Bye

[godwentpunk]

Ok...thanks for the input.

joe...