The DVDs were probably made badly.
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf
I know Pinnacle is known for bugginess, I'm not aware it's known for producing malformed .vob files. -
Originally Posted by brassplyer
Originally Posted by brassplyer -
Are you sure the video is interlaced? You don't seem to even know what Pinnacle is doing.
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf - aka 'Mr 352x240'
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If I were you, I wouldn't be so snippy with your betters. It's a valid question. A couple of the pics you posted showed movement, but without any interlacing. They were being deinterlaced somewhere along the line. His comment was a reply (I think) to this statement of yours:
The DVD is whatever Pinnacle Studio Spit out from the Original DV avi files - 8000 kbps, 720 x 480, 29.97fps mpeg-2 -
Originally Posted by brassplyer
When it comes down to it, I don't really give a shit if your DVDs look clear or not -- you asked the question, so shut up and respond politely when somebody tries to help you (FOR FREE!) solve this so-called issue.
Otherwise piss off, and go back to your jaggy/smeary/blurry/blocky crap, as viewed from the HDTV you don't seem to own anyway.Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
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I agree. If you want HELP then give us as MUCH information as possible. If not then we can close this topic.
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Originally Posted by manono
"The DVD is whatever Pinnacle Studio Spit out from the Original DV avi files - 8000 kbps, 720 x 480, 29.97fps mpeg-2"
This Pinnacle Studio "spits out" whatever you tell it. A vague statement such as yours
It's not just my DVD, I've seen many examples of commercial release DVD's that looked like garbage on display HDTV's and PC's, and that was part of the impetus for my post. Apparently it's possible for them to look better, the hardware just has to be correct.
A couple of the pics you posted showed movement, but without any interlacing. They were being deinterlaced somewhere along the line. His comment was a reply (I think) to this statement of yours -
Originally Posted by Baldrick
Until I play the same DVD on a known "good" setup - i.e. known to be correctly upsampled, I'd say for the moment the question has been answered as well as it can be - i.e. a plausible explanation has been offered. I don't think an analysis of the content of the Hex editor data etc. is going to improve the answer. -
Originally Posted by lordsmurf
Originally Posted by lordsmurf -
You must have some major anger issues if you think that lordsmurf's comments (before your childish name-calling) weren't civil.
Maybe you're simply angry because people didn't give you the simplest suggestion: Check your DVD on different players at different stores. One bad experience at K-Mart (of all places for electronics) isn't a very thorough research system. -
yeah smurf's been trolling this site for 6 years.. .
on top of his first response probably being true based on previous information you gave, it may also have been colored by your pissy, snarky replies to others previously in this thread.
If it hurts your feelings that someone would suggest the problem is likely YOU then enjoy watching your sub-standard video.
Finally, an upscaling dvd player isn't gonna fix the turd of a video you've created. -
Originally Posted by Supreme2k
Sounds civil to you? Along with comments that were clearly condescending, making various assumptions with no basis - and incorrect as well.
Interesting you seem to turn a blind eye to the fact that your 'lil buddy was the one to begin hurling name-calling. But such factionalism is another common phenomenon on the internet.
Maybe you're simply angry because people didn't give you the simplest suggestion
No, what pisses me off is the variety of techno geek that seems to be under the impression that they know enough to give them the privilege of being a smarmy, condescending prick.
One bad experience at K-Mart
In fact if you'd been paying attention you'd see that I stated that I've seen this numerous times in the past, including with commercial DVD's.
One Best Buy I was in had, as their central HDTV display, a Michael Buble' DVD playing that looked like someone had smeared Vaseline on the lens of a VHS camcorder. Clearly the manager just didn't care enough to make sure it was set it up right, and I've apparently seen similar scenarios on various occasions. -
I don't own an HDTV. My in-laws do though. I took a dvd backup (disney's Cars) that I had done - main movie only - with dvdshrink. I don't remember the exact shrink % but I think it was like 65%. It looked like crap on their tv. A few days later I backed up cars again using dvdrb and hcenc and took it over to their house and played it. It looked so much better than the dvdshrink disc.
The shrink disc looked great on my 32inch analog tv but looked like crap on their 40 inch hdtv.
Everything was the same. Same movie, same media, same player and tv. Just the different shrinking methods. Now I know that an encoder is better than any transcoder anyday but damn. Now I only backup using dvdrb with hcenc as the encoder.
You know one thing you could try just to rule out the pinnacle software is to create a new dvd using different software like hcenc, aften, gui4dvdauthor or just pop that dv-avi into avstodvd (which uses the software I just mentioned but automates it for you).Donadagohvi (Cherokee for "Until we meet again") -
Originally Posted by freebird73717
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How does the video look playing straight out of the camcorder into a TV?
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another feature of internet forums is you can't make false claims when the proof is right above us.
Originally Posted by brassplyer
Originally Posted by brassplyer
The fact that you had a video that went from looking like image A to image B is further proof you are screwing something up royally in the process. -
I don't see the length of video mentioned anywhere either. It might be too much on a disc. We still don't know the actual bitrates being used. GSPOT it.
Does anybody else know what encoding engine is in the version of Pinnacle (was that given above?)
I feel like I'm doing tech support again, where somebody would call and say "My computer's broke." or "My internets is broke." -- hard to help in those cases. Most often, the person calling would get rude, or simply leave as confused as when he/she called -- as if it were my fault.Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
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Originally Posted by greymalkinOriginally Posted by brassplyerOriginally Posted by greymalkin
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf
It's at 100% quality 8000kbps. That's what Pinnacle said it was being encoded at, that's what MediaInfo says it is.
The point being, whether or not this video represents the absolute ultimate in SD DVD technology, the video as seen on the HDTV and on several widescreen computer monitors - which you might think would look okay simply because they're far more compact than a big HDTV, wasn't even close to how it looks on even a pedestrian CRT tv - and it's letterboxed at that, so it's not even using all the pixels available on the 4:3 screen. I don't believe that the kind of disparity I'm seeing is due to some esoteric difference in quality of rendering.
I appreciate all useful input but it's pointless to discuss it further until I assess the results on a known "good" setup. -
Originally Posted by stiltman
Btw, I assume you were referring to HDTV's. I've hooked it up directly to a CRT set with the composite jacks and it looks great. -
Originally Posted by brassplyerWant my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
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There errors must be in something less obvious. I'd almost have to see the disc, or at least a minute of sample video (upload a clip).
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The problem was not with the DVD itself, but (apparently) the playback DVD device that was hooked up to the HDTV at the store. It was difficult to fully determine the problem because we were thrown by the screenshot examples. The "bad" image was not an actual freeze frame of what was seen at the store, but the OP's simulated reproduction (done on VirtualDub, I think). Unless you take the time to read and re-read every single word and nuance of the OP's posts, it is easy to get derailed when trying to determine the cause of the problem. The OP is so wordy from trying to defensively argue irrelevant points (and get in a few personal digs), it is easy to overlook key information that is buried in the diatribes.
Usually, actual screenshots of problems are posted, but this was the first time in my memory that a purposefully-altered image was offered as the user's interpretation of what he saw. From the extreme compression of the "bad" image, it is easy to assume it was a poor MPEG2 encode. The GSpot shot added another element to the process of elimination. It should have come about 40 posts ago. -
Its worth noting the OPs original question, while perhaps poorly pursued, actually rings true for many of us: todays big flat displays DO often perform sub-par with typical standard-def DVDs made by consumers. Commercial Hollywood DVDs can just about pass, and some look very good, but anything recorded at home from analog TV, cable, camcorders, or dubbed from VHS tends to look just awful, especially on LCD panels larger than 32". I have found this to hold true whether the player is a $30 Phillips connected via composite or a $300 Oppo connected via HDMI: these big panels suck wind displaying standard-def consumer-made recordings. Some of the very latest LCDs are better, and plasma generally does better than LCD, but neither compares to a Trinitron CRT for playing consumer-made DVD. I believe LordSmurf has one of the final Sony rear-projection HDTVs, and I remember those being remarkably decent for SD, but they're unavailable now. Eventually the flat panels will evolve to where they're more amenable to SD, at least one can hope.
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