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  1. Member
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    Hey, it took me a while, but I have arrived ....

    I am playing with Pinnacle Studio 10 and the Dazzle capture USB. When I write to DVD, the quality drops very low as I go over 50 minutes of video and a lot of color is lost. I have tried this on a second computer with the same results. When I record 45 minutes I get 100%.

    The settings all seem logical, none point to VCD as I had suspected.

    Thoughts appreciated....
    Emerogork
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  2. dvdr stores data it has nothing to do with time. file size is determined by bitrate x time. set your bitrate to accommodate the time of the video. a bitrate calculator will help.

    https://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm

    p.s. a dvdr holds about 4.365GB.
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    Ok, I will look into the bitrate calculator however my system does not seem to want to open it )-: I will work on it.
    Meanwhile, the finished file according to the computer is only 2.3GB yet Pinnacle Studio seems to want to compress it to less than half that. It seems to think that the 4.3GB disk only had 1GB on it. Does this make sense?
    Emerogork
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    Ok, my tenant is looking into the HTML Java stuff for me.

    OTOH I did a help search in Pinnacle for BITRATE and it failed but it did lead me to a statement that claims that a DVD only holds 60 minutes of video. I understand what you said about a DVD storing data not time. This tells me that something is filling up the rest of the DVD that is not video, some kind of overhead data. The software not appears to be acting correctly.

    My question now is: Does this sound realistic? Is there better software I could use to get more video saved onto on the DVD?
    Emerogork
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  5. Pinnacle software is pretty universally regarded as crap.

    The statement is wrong, or at least incomplete. 60 minutes at a particular bitrate, 4 times that at one-quarter the bitrate, 120 minutes at half that bitrate, get the picture? Also 30 minutes at twice that bitrate. Bitrate dictates filesize, filesize dictates how many minutes fit on the disk.

    Software that does not allow bitrate control is pretty useless.

    Are you recording direct to DVD? You should not be. If you are creating a file on the hard drive before burning, simply examine the file and take the DVD disk completely out of the picture.

    There is some minimal overhead, but nothing like what you are proposing. Crap software, crap results.

    I would ditch the Pinnacle prog and get something else. Anything, anything at all, is better than that.
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  6. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    You can put just about any amount of video on a regular DVD, even eight hours or more, though it will be pretty poor quality. Usually about one hour of video will give you the very best quality, but two hours should still look good.

    If you are having problems with the VH bitrate calculator, there others in our 'Tools' section. https://www.videohelp.com/tools/sections/bitrate-calculators
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  7. I'm a Super Moderator johns0's Avatar
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    I found a way of getting 5 hours of decent 720x480 on a dvd5,bought a SonyBDP-S350,encoded dvd to avchd,burned to dvd5,sat down and watched.
    I think,therefore i am a hamster.
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    I guess the real issue here is that I am expecting to maintain full TV screen size video. It also looks like Pinnacle Studio 10 is only going to give me up to 1 hour on a DVD. Either the students will have to accept lower quality faded video, have to do projects that max out to one hour, or have projects on more than one DVD. Funny though, at first they would only do 5 minute productions and bad ones at that...

    Of course, I could continue watching here in case someone knows software to accommodate 2 hours on a DVD,...
    And this I will.

    Thank all of you for your attention on this.
    Emerogork
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  9. Originally Posted by Emerogork
    Of course, I could continue watching here in case someone knows software to accommodate 2 hours on a DVD,...
    Most of the people here know how to do that. As redwudz said:
    You can put just about any amount of video on a regular DVD, even eight hours or more...
    It's just a question of bitrate. Any program that doesn't let you set the bitrate and only gives you quality choices should be immediately junked.
    Is there better software I could use to get more video saved onto on the DVD?
    Any real encoder lets you set the bitrate to put as much or as little video as you like onto a DVD5 - HCEnc (good and free), CCE, Procoder, TMPGEnc, etc., etc.
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    Continuing the thought, So, it seems to be in the software that Pinnacle Studio cannot print more than an hour of full screen video to DVD without losing quality. The question is why is this so? When I purchase a commercial DVD, it clearly can have more than double that at top quality. "Crappy Software" is not really an answer. What fills the disk if the original file on the computer is half that of what the DVD is claiming to be able to handle? (The DVD claims 4.7G yet the file to be copied is 2.2G and my printed DVDs seem to be full using a visual observation.)

    I have seen some recommendations for other software but no real technological explanations are given. I am looking into these.

    Meanwhile: Many of my works are High School sport events and have no legal restrictions. Since I am not working with copyrighted material, am I being prevented because someone somewhere thinks that someone somewhere else might be in violation of legals? (Conspiracy theory?)

    Could it be that some block is in place to prevent what the professionals can do? (more conspiracy theory?)


    Someone has pointed out that one can get 5 hours on a DVD. Is this a micro screen? Is this in B&W where the quality based on color is not a factor?

    Thoughts appreciated...
    Emerogork
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    LOL, "conspiracy." (Amazing how some people's minds work.) Countless numbers of us make 2-hour DVDs on 4.7Gb discs every day without a hitch. Why? Because we did our homework and use the proper tools. I suggest you start reading WHAT IS > DVD in the left column of this site.

    To make things easier, you may want to simply output your Pinnacle project as a DV-AVI file, which can then be encoded for DVD using a very simple freeware program called DVD Flick. (Download it from the Tools section of this site.)

    Your students deserve better. You expect them to learn skills. Learn some yourself.
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    I suspect a bit of hostility here, first of all, the conspiracy theory was a joke, get it?

    The high school students have far more than you can imagine from professional quality cameras on electronic pedestals, theatrical lighting in a state of the art studio and their own community access channel on cable TV on which they do live call in shows in cooperation with NBC studios. I played a major role in securing the equipment and professional links. The use of the pinnacle is for an off campus club that wants to totally prove that minimal budget can work and run their own station. Maybe you have forgotten what it is like to be a kid...

    I will forward your response to them, they will look into your suggestions and probably get a laugh out of your attempt at sarcasm... All I wanted to know was whether or not they had realistic ambitions with the software they have. It looks like they do.

    Enough said, I still thank you for your input.
    Emerogork
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  13. In defense of filmboss80, maybe your humor is just too dry for some of us, because I didn't think you were joking either. The only difference is that I refrained from making a sarcastic reply. To tell you the truth, I thought you were trying to rationalize your own incompetence. Sorry, but that's what I really thought.

    You can do this on no budget at all. Many free tools are available that can do just as good a job, if not better (and certainly better than what you're using at the moment), than the commercial programs.

    If your kids really want to learn something, tell them AviSynth to frameserve, HCEnc to encode, and Muxman to author. If they want menus, then one of the free authoring programs such as GUI4DVDAuthor or DVDAuthorGUI will do nicely. All free; all good; all with learning curves, but not insurmountable ones for a bright and eager-to-learn teenager. There are guides available for all of the programs. If any of the students have questions, just tell them where to find us.
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  14. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    Any editor or encoder that uses descriptive terms for encoding - low, medium, high quality for example - or does not allow the user to set an actual bitrate in the encoder settings is little more than a toy. A good encoder will allow the user to set bitrates to get high levels of accuracy over filesize and quality. Often more than one title will be encoded for a DVD project. Main titles will usually require high bitrates than "extras" in order to maintain suitable quality. Each title will be encoded using specific settings.

    I find it hard to believe that Pinnacle doesn't allow more freedom, and I suspct that more time spent with the software and reading the manual may reveal more features to you. If not, you have learned a lesson. And as has been pointed out to you, there are plenty of free and/or low cost alternatives.

    I do find it a bit difficult to reconcile your pride in obtaining all of this professional equipment for your students, then getting caught out by purchasing a Dazzle USB capture toy.
    Read my blog here.
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  15. I am absolutely stunned and amazed.

    How is it possible that the OP is apparently operating in some sort of advisory capacity with so little practical knowledge of the subject?

    The statement that a 2.2gb file is filling the disk based on visual observation alone betrays a lack of basic knowledge and scientific method that is truly awesome in ithe scope of its ineptitude.

    What the OP needs to do is stop the laughter by ceasing to post and starting to read. Starting with the "What is" section and continuing thru several Guides. As for what specifically, apparently everything.

    NBC contacts and you bought a Dazzle? "Print" to DVD's?

    If I made an educated guess that the Pinnacle problem was a combination of limited bitrate control combined with a CBR encoding method plus the usage of PCM audio, along with an inability to efficiently allocate disk space, my second educated guess would be that none of that would make any sense to you whatsoever.
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    Interesting, I never said that the pinnacle was part of the TV studio or equipment owned by the school. Again, it is a small group of students part of the school but off campus acting on their own. They purchased the dazzle totally on their own, with their own funds. The mere purchase got them into the world of video. They came to me, I installed the software on my own system and tried to help them make sense out of it. When was the last time you observed teenagers doing something original?

    They are even building their own computers from recycled parts. They have access to the school systems but they want their own set up. As I see it, it is not unlike my rebuilding a Camero or GTO in the 60s and they can work without the restrictions pushed on them by the BOE. I did tell them that there was better software out there but this is what they have and this is what they want until they have picked it apart enough to see how it works. As I see it, if they can tweak Studio 10 enough to get it to do what they want, they have learned a lot. Try to remember, it is the academic environment, it is not the final product that is important but the learning process involved in getting there. I wonder that when I can show them that DVDFlick is written in VB, they just might learn the language to write their own software...

    They probably will now embrace the new free stuff that is being suggested here,... or maybe not. Is it being stubborn or is it persistence? It is however a learning environment filled with discovery and I am not about to interfere. This is especially so since it one of the few things in their lives that they can own and is not adult supervised and no matter how many mistakes they make, they own them and believe it or not, they are proud of them. Were any of you part of a teen age rock band and had to repair your own amps? Then you will probably understand.

    OTOH, Anyone who felt incensed to criticize me should instead have questioned what I was seeking, my purpose was and why I was using such a cheap device. I would have spelled it all out much earlier but I did not realize that things were so conditional around here to get some answers. After all, it is it really so horrible to observe visually that a DVD is not being fully written and to wonder why?
    Emerogork
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  17. BuskerAlley.com zoobie's Avatar
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    Pinnacle and CyberLink Powerdirector were endorsed by Videomaker magazine in exchange for ad revenue I think. This is why magazine reviews can't be trusted compared to authentic user reviews.

    Below, considering 123 independent user reviews on Pinnacle Studio 10 at CNET, it receives 1/2 a star out of 5...
    http://reviews.cnet.com/video-editors/avid-pinnacle-studio-plus/4505-3670_7-31528139.html
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  18. Originally Posted by Nelson37
    the Pinnacle problem was a combination of limited bitrate control combined with a CBR encoding method plus the usage of PCM audio, along with an inability to efficiently allocate disk space
    IIRC, that's correct. Or it was for Studio 8. (I still have a Pinnacle Studio 8 disc somewhere.)

    Never could get the damn thing to work, you put in hours editing and it locks up when you try to render. And the settings are still crippled. So they haven't improved it much, apparently. :P
    Pull! Bang! Darn!
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  19. BuskerAlley.com zoobie's Avatar
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    Actually, the CNET reviews are quite entertaining if not downright hilarious and oddly just updated 07/18/2009 on software that is 4 years old. Initially, the (paid) CNET review, using the old rating system, had given Pinnacle a 7.1 ou tof 10 rating in 2005 but just now mysteriously has updated it to 0 out of 5 stars. Several user reviews wondered how much $ Pinnacle had given CNET for a positive review. Now that CNET has set the record straight, all that's left are the funny user reviews.

    starting in early 2005, we find the user actually thinking the problems were with their computer and they are busy upgrading and buying new desktops...I kid you not. The user reviews are redundant with "support non-existant" and "told to re-install" and "total trashware" with support coming from Latin America.
    not researching studio 10 was evidently an interesting and fast way to waste loads of time and money

    it gets better...

    a few years later (end of 2006), evidently, when Pinnacle was updating their free trial and temporarily removed it, sales suddenly skyrocketed...and it was decided to remove the free trial permanently ( I love trade secrets...ooops )

    now the consumer could only rely on ad text and were easily hooked and thusly deserve to be parted from their money for their laziness and gullibility...ha ha

    so now it's on to amazon user reviews below...here, there are 124 reviews for Pinnacle Studio 10...and receives a one out of five star rating...because that's the lowest this rating system can go
    http://www.amazon.com/Pinnacle-Studio-Plus-10-0-Editing/product-reviews/B000B7TF6C/ref...owViewpoints=1

    both user review sites read like wonderful comedies...perhaps a broadway play should be made
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  20. Member
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    Persistence: Never giving up on the end goal, even if it requires that you step out of your comfort zone and try different methods to achieve that goal.

    Stubbornness: Doggedly insisting upon using a solitary method to achieve a goal, even though that method clearly does not bring about acceptable results.

    A lot of good advice has been given in this thread. Several good tools have been mentioned. The rest is up to you and the students involved. Take it or leave it.
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  21. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Crap software is the problem. Feel free to bury head in sand, but that's what it is, sadly. Don't shoot the messengers, and remember you asked the question, don't cry when you don't like the answer. I dn't want to be mean, I just think it needs to be stated bluntly and clearly.

    Move on to something better, Pinnacle stuff will just give you a headache, frustration -- and miserable quality DVDs.
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    Titch, titch, such hostility. I never complained about an answer and don't recall shooting any messenger. On the contrary, the assistance here was very good. The students have found that the capture and editing quality is good enough in the Dazzle for the price they paid ($20 in markdown at OfficeMax).

    From what was recommended here, now they are exploring DVD Flick to render their video work and to write it to DVD. In time they might be able to afford to get a better capture method but for now they are very happy. (A recommendation here will be forwarded to them.) Their latest theory in why they had such poor quality might be that Pinnacle software, for some odd reason, seems to be stuck on writing VCD format to DVD. They have not yet found a setting to change it.
    Emerogork
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  23. One final kick to the dead horse- its your software, absolutely. If simplicity was your key requirement, I could understand reluctance to embrace the free tools suggested here because it is a bit of a learning curve to integrate them all. But since the students involved seem able to operate a vast array of semi-pro hardware and they're evidentally about to roll their own A/V pcs, I don't think you need to worry about learning curves: they'll figure it out. Since these tools are freeware, they do meet your requirement for use in a "minimalist $ approach" project: take a chance.

    Pinnacle is buggy software, but even it should be able to make a standard two hour DVD: that is the single most common encoding task. If your Pinnacle is completely unable to do this, its a defective installation or worse-than-usual release version. Uninstall it. The cheapest junk DVD recorder can make a two hour DVD without a hitch, as can the software bundled with some new computers.
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