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  1. Member
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    Hi everyone,

    I'm working on a DVD project using subtitles of languages with different alphabets (e.g. English, Russian, Hebrew, etc) and so I've decided it's best to rip the subs and convert to .SUP files because then I can work with an image rip, rather than OCR (which will be difficult to achieve with non-latin alphabets). I am actually using sources from two different editions of the same movie, which is why I am re-authoring in the first place, using some of the subtitles from each edition.

    So I've had success, except the subtitles have some messy line things in them (for all tracks) appearing under the words...I am uploading a picture to demonstrate my point, in this case it's easy to see but some subtitles are unaffected while others are even worse.
    I've noticed that this mess shows on my computer and my new DVD player unit, while the ancient (10yo) DVD player unit I still have shows the subtitles clean without the lines etc, so I'm thinking it's got to do with how the subtitles are read/interpreted by the player...but I'm not too sure since I'm total newbie when it comes to subs.

    Anyway, I was wondering if anyone who takes a look at the picture can identify the problem and possibly suggest a way to overcome this. I used DVD Shrink to copy from disc to hard drive, then used DVDSubEdit to create SUPs from the VOB files.

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  2. Originally Posted by jiles
    ...so I've decided it's best to rip the subs and convert to .SUP files
    That doesn't make much sense to me. In what format are you originally getting the subs? You don't have to convert to SUP when you can get them directly.
    Originally Posted by jiles
    ...then used DVDSubEdit to create SUPs from the VOB files.
    Eh? Any reason you didn't get the SUP files direct from the DVD by using PGCDemux? No lines under the subs.

    Unless this is happening when you reauthor. How are you adding the subs to the DVD?
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    Originally Posted by manono
    In what format are you originally getting the subs? You don't have to convert to SUP when you can get them directly.
    Straight from the DVD.

    Originally Posted by manono
    Any reason you didn't get the SUP files direct from the DVD by using PGCDemux? No lines under the subs.
    I'll give this a try. Any reason, because like I stated I am a newbie and not familiar with all the thousands of programs that can be used.

    Originally Posted by manono
    Unless this is happening when you reauthor. How are you adding the subs to the DVD?
    This is what I wondered...using IfoEdit.
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    Just given the whole thing a go using PgcDemux and it looks like it's done the trick
    Thanks.
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  5. You're welcome. And use Muxman instead of IFOEdit for authoring. It's better.
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    Originally Posted by manono
    You're welcome. And use Muxman instead of IFOEdit for authoring. It's better.
    I've tried Muxman, in fact it was my first preference. But for some reason it just doesn't cope well. I think maybe it's a compatibility issue with my OS or something, since I know Muxman can handle more than three subtitle tracks. It works fine on my dad's XP laptop but he is always carting that around.IfoEdit seems to do the job for me though. As long as the DVD plays alright then I'm happy.
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  7. You're probably loading them incorrectly, especially if the video is 16:9. IFOEdit doesn't have the problem as you load only one sub stream, whether 4:3 or 16:9, where Muxman (correctly) requires 2 streams if the video is 16:9 (even if they're both the same), and if you don't understand that, and don't know how to load them correctly, you can easily wind up without subs.

    Yes, even the free version can take the max allowable 32 subtitle tracks.
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    Originally Posted by jiles
    So I've had success, except the subtitles have some messy line things in them (for all tracks) appearing under the words...
    Try Subrip
    https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Subrip
    to lift the subtitles out of the VOB files on your HD.

    Subrip gives you the option, to type by hand, whenever a flawed picture comes up. Could be quite a job, if the source has many flawed images.

    If you save the subtitles as *.srt or other textbased format, before you reauthor your new DVD, all the "messy line things" will be gone.
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    Originally Posted by manono
    You're probably loading them incorrectly, especially if the video is 16:9. IFOEdit doesn't have the problem as you load only one sub stream, whether 4:3 or 16:9, where Muxman (correctly) requires 2 streams if the video is 16:9 (even if they're both the same), and if you don't understand that, and don't know how to load them correctly, you can easily wind up without subs.
    Yes my video is almost always 16:9 and I've had problems with not getting subtitles before (0MB tracks), but still not very often.
    I was just having a go at another project and kept getting errors about too many dropped frames in both IfoEdit and Muxman, project with 6 audio + 6 subs. When I left one audio out (i.e. 5 audio + 6 subs) then it worked fine! I found DVDPatcher but that didn't help with the video. I also followed my steps as per before this topic, when I knew video and audio worked, but no success. I know problems arise on a movie-per-movie basis. Tried a couple of times re-ripping video and audio, the only one thing I didn't do was use RipIt4Me to rip the DVD, because DVD Decrypter had a hissy fit about key exchange.
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  10. 6 audio and 6 subs? And you say you get dropped frames. Sounds more like buffer underflows to me - the combined bitrates of video, audios, subs, and muxing overhead going over the limit at certain times. You can get more information about the problem by checking the Muxman log, found in the root of the C drive.
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    Originally Posted by manono
    6 audio and 6 subs? And you say you get dropped frames. Sounds more like buffer underflows to me - the combined bitrates of video, audios, subs, and muxing overhead going over the limit at certain times. You can get more information about the problem by checking the Muxman log, found in the root of the C drive.
    Correct, I get a dropped frames error but the log says buffer underflow. I'm going to have a look at seeing if I can find a solution.
    Thanks for your help
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  12. I've seen the problem a few times. I don't think the result is dropped frames, so much, as it is a slight pause or stutter where the buffer underflows take place. These are usually in the middle of complex scenes - lots of action, or the entire screen in motion - a car driving fast through the countryside, for example, or a closeup of a tree blowing in the breeze, not necessarily just explosions or crowd scenes and the like. Some players handle the problem better than do others. One of the knocks against using IFOEdit to author is that it'll give you back a playable DVD after authoring, if there aren't too many underflows, even though it warns you about them. Muxman both warns you and gives you back an incomplete DVD, one that can't be played.

    The solution is to lower the overall bitrate. Reencode one of the audios, or reencode the video using a slightly lower max bitrate. Or use one less audio track, as you said you did.
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    Originally Posted by manono
    The solution is to lower the overall bitrate. Reencode one of the audios, or reencode the video using a slightly lower max bitrate. Or use one less audio track, as you said you did.
    What do you recommend for lowing the bitrate of video (preferably) or audio?
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  14. Originally Posted by jiles
    What do you recommend for lowing the bitrate of video (preferably) or audio?
    To lower the max bitrate (not necessarily the average bitrate), it has to be completely reencoded.
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    Originally Posted by manono
    Originally Posted by jiles
    What do you recommend for lowing the bitrate of video (preferably) or audio?
    To lower the max bitrate (not necessarily the average bitrate), it has to be completely reencoded.
    What steps/program do you suggest to re-encode it? And just lower the maximum bitrate, I understand that bit.
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  16. You don't know how to reencode DVDs? I'm not really the one to ask if you're just learning. I make a D2V project file using DGIndex and use it in an AviSynth script to frameserve into my MPEG-2 encoder. I use CCE but HCEnc is just as good and also has the advantage of being absolutely free. Then you set the max bitrate in the encoder.

    If all that was gibberish to you, then maybe it's time to look for a guide or 2. Afterdawn.com has a pretty good HCEnc guide, and apparently HCEnc takes D2V input, in addition to AviSynth .avs input. If you're reencoding a modern Hollywood movie, like the one in your pic above, make a 23.976fps D2V by setting the Video->Field Operation to Forced Film in DGIndex, save the D2V (File->Save Project), and open it in HCEnc. Follow the guide from there.
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    Originally Posted by manono
    If all that was gibberish to you, then maybe it's time to look for a guide or 2.
    No gibberish there I gave it a go with HC Encoder and it's worked fine, just wondered if you had better suggestions (e.g. the IfoEdit vs. Muxman)

    Originally Posted by manono
    If you're reencoding a modern Hollywood movie, like the one in your pic above, make a 23.976fps D2V by setting the Video->Field Operation to Forced Film in DGIndex, save the D2V (File->Save Project), and open it in HCEnc.
    I'm not sure if I have to do this to make it work better, though I'd do 25fps because we use PAL in my corner of the world

    Thanks for your help.
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  18. Originally Posted by jiles
    I'm not sure if I have to do this to make it work better, though I'd do 25fps because we use PAL in my corner of the world
    Oops, sorry. Yes, you want to make the D2V using Honor Pulldown Flags.

    Also, I forgot to link to the HCEnc guide, which you may or may not find useful:

    http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/hc_encoder_settings.cfm
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