White lines in the VITC area

[youblokle]

What are those white dashes in the VITC area of the picture? They don't look like time code. What are they called? And What do they do? Also, can I get rid of them through DVD authoring?

[edDV]

What are those white dashes in the VITC area of the picture? They don't look like time code. What are they called? And What do they do? Also, can I get rid of them through DVD authoring?

For NTSC analog TV these lines contain among other things
- Closed captions
- Parental ratings by program
- Station and program data for OSD overlay data display
- Test signals used for AGC at the transmitter or for cable modulators
- Leased data (all) or device file download service (pbs).
- Wide aspect flag
- Clock reference data (usually one station per community)

NTSC broadcast is no more in the USA. You may have this data on legacy recordings. Cable usually converts closed captions and parental ratings to vertical interval when they D/A on the remaining analog cable channels.

ATSC digitally encodes all this data so you don't see it.

[tomlee59]

What are those white dashes in the VITC area of the picture? They don't look like time code. What are they called? And What do they do? Also, can I get rid of them through DVD authoring?

You can't get rid of them in the authoring phase, but you can mask them out in an editing phase. But that entails re-encoding (and the quality loss that goes with it). Those "sparklies" used to bother me, but now I'm so used to them that I don't really notice them any longer. Maybe that's your best solution.

Alternatively, only watch these things on an old CRT monitor with overscan.

[usually_quiet]

I see the lines you describe quite often. I use DTV converter boxes and they show up on my analog TVs when I watch off antenna. All these TV's are 4:3 CRTs with overcan, and I still see them on SD DTV channels. I have seen them watching TV using my analog cable service too, as well as on a HDTV, when watching off antenna. I agree with tomlee59. Learn to live with them. They are not going away any time soon.

They are supposedly a side-effect of the legacy line 21 analog closed captions which are included in the ATSC signal, and are distinct from the digital closed captions. While there is no VBI in the digital signal itself, somehow analog CCs are added back where they belong when the signal is decoded. (When I use converter boxes with my analog TVs, the TVs decode and display the analog closed captions as usual, but the converter boxes must be used to decode and display the digital closed captions. The digital TVs I have used also have separate functions for the display of analog and digital closed captions.)

[edDV]

I forgot about the ATSC converter boxes adding back the vertical interval data lines for closed captions, etc. I've only used those with analog CRT sets that overscan.

Back when NTSC and ATSC were simulcast, you often saw vertical interval data at the top of the upscaled HDTV feed. This was a mistake at the TV station. They should have blanked those lines before upscale. I haven't seen that error since the all digital conversion.

[usually_quiet]

I forgot about the ATSC converter boxes adding back the vertical interval data lines for closed captions, etc. I've only used those with analog CRT sets that overscan.

Back when NTSC and ATSC were simulcast, you often saw vertical interval data at the top of the upscaled HDTV feed. This was a mistake at the TV station. They should have blanked those lines before upscale. I haven't seen that error since the all digital conversion.

My analog CRT TVs compensate for overscan too, but I still see the side effects from the ATSC version of analog closed captions when using a converter box. It's not present all the time though.

The same is true for the LCD and CRT TVs my parents have. They compensate for overscan and are equipped with digital tuners, but when I tested their reception using an indoor antenna after the transition, the lines were there. It happened sometimes with the clear QAM versions of their OTA channels too. As with the converter boxes, it comes and goes. I did not expect to see it. I had always blamed my converter boxes.

[Edit] I just went through my OTA channel lineup. The one instance I saw was in an SD program that was being shown on a 1080i sub-channel, but I swear I have seen it recently with SD programs being shown on a 480i sub-channel.

[edDV]

I admit I never considered the results of ATSC to analog converter vertical interval showing.

Lady says "skirts showing". She gets it.

I haven't seen that on my analog TV sets but yes on capture device preview.

[usually_quiet]

I admit I never considered the results of ATSC to analog converter vertical interval showing.

Lady says "skirts showing". She gets it.

I haven't seen that on my analog TV sets but yes on capture device preview.

It was someone at the AVS Forums who said the converter boxes' handling of ATSC analog closed captions were at fault, but who knows if that person really knew what he was talking about. At least some of the time, it looks like you are right regarding overscan that should have been removed before broadcasting.

...but everthing is mixed together at this point -- HD programming with SD commercials, new SD programs with HD commercials, plus rebroadcasts of old analog programs. Unless one is watching for the unwanted lines, it is hard to keep track of the original resolution of the video being shown. I only know that I still see it fairly often. I don't expect it to go away for some time.

[edDV]

I admit I never considered the results of ATSC to analog converter vertical interval showing.

Lady says "skirts showing". She gets it.

I haven't seen that on my analog TV sets but yes on capture device preview.

It was someone at the AVS Forums who said the converter boxes' handling of ATSC analog closed captions were at fault, but who knows if that person really knew what he was talking about. At least some of the time, it looks like you are right regarding overscan that should have been removed before broadcasting.

...but everthing is mixed together at this point -- HD programming with SD commercials, new SD programs with HD commercials, plus rebroadcasts of old analog programs. Unless one is watching for the unwanted lines, it is hard to keep track of the original resolution of the video being shown. I only know that I still see it fairly often. I don't expect it to go away for some time.

I have to say I'm appalled by the local Hearst-Argyle station here but it seems they have resorted to hiring the homeless for the evening master control shift as the mayor probably insisted. The Kings suck too. They forget to switch HD to SD for the commercial break causing a tiny box and forget to switch back to HD and AC3 after the commercial break. This is the lot of broken local media these days. There is no pretense of professional standards. CBS/CW is/was the next worse and they are owned by CBS. The ABC guys (Gannet-USA Today) seem to know their aspects and resolutions. The PBS guys are by the book and mostly correct.