Random DVD Chapter Playback & Other Authoring Questions

[houstono]

(Read Below)

[Supreme2k]

Your best bet is to simply ask your question in the thread title. Most people here do this type of work as a hobby or because they have great interest in it.

Offering money will not get your problem solved here. Most people here know that the money offered is never serious.

Simply ask your question, hope it gets adequately answered, then donate to this site (if you are really serious about the payment).

This is very costly work. I am positive that you will be completely shocked when someone sends you an estimate on how much it will cost.


Also, you must not have asked this question before, since it shows that this is your first post.

[houstono]

I used a different account name, forgot my password for the other account.

I offer money because after attempting this work, it seems way over my head and sifting through the web for information has not been very successful, yet I still need to get this project done.

I posted my question on another popular DVD authoring forum, to which I received only one response: "Ain't gonna happen". So I am somewhat frustrated with the process.

So as per your advice, I will ask: What DVD authoring program is best to script for random chapter play? Where can i find a guide to scripting random chapter playback? My 250 clips are all in .avi format as cut in Virtualdub, What needs to be done conversion wise in order to use these clips on a DVD that will play in a PS3 and/or XBOX 360? How can I add a "counter" in the corner of each clip, to keep track of the number of clips that have played? How can I create "buttons" on the DVD menu that play 60 or the random clips, or 100 of the random clips?

Any help is appreciated. I will gladly donate to this website if I can get some friendly assistance.

Thanks in advance.

[minidv2dvd]

depends on your definition of random. if it has to be truly random in the sense that everytime you play it, it's different then you're out of luck. like most digital devices a dvd player has a random number generator but most of them are not random at all, each time they power cycle the "random" number generator starts with the same number again. if it just needs to be random once, then you could almost say it's random.

the not repeating part is only going to happen if you make pre-generated lists of random chapters and randomly chose between lists.

the 250 chapters is another sticking point, as you can only have 99 per title.

[houstono]

I need it to be random each time, so is it possible to, as you said, make a ton of different random lists, and then each time it will randomly pick one of my "random" playlists? What program would I use to do this?

Also the clips dont have to be chapters. Is there a way to have all 250 clips "in" the DVD and it will randomly cycle through them, without them actually being "chapters"?

[minidv2dvd]

mediachance has about the best tutorials on programming random things in dvds. down the page here.

http://www.mediachance.com/dvdlab/tutorial/

you probably need to use several titles on the dvd, not really a problem, just more programming and a possible slight pause during the title changes.

[houstono]

Thanks for the website, looks like it has potential. I will pour over it this evening.

Would it be possible to make all the 250 clips different titles? Could it fit that way? A short pause in between does not bother me. Any foreseeable problems attempting it this way?

[minidv2dvd]

no not possible, max number of titles is also 99.

[borax]

In theory it would be possible to extend the code up to 192 clips (4 registers are used by the random generator itself, therefore 12 registers remain for the flags; 12*16 = 192). These could be split as two titles with 96 chapters. But I'm not sure if this also runs in praxis (as no registers are left for any other navigation). It would require very good programming skills, good understanding about DVD VM code and an authoring program which doesn't use any registers itself (MuxMan would be the obvious choice). In each case it would be really hard work.

[Alex_ander]

Would it be possible to make all the 250 clips different titles? ... Any foreseeable problems attempting it this way?

It is possible if not all VTS titles are registered as VMG titles. Then up to 99x99 titles on disc. Most authoring applications will not do it, DVDRemake can.
To address titles via VMG, indirect commands should be used (jumping to a VTS menu, then to VTS title). Some DVD players may behave in unexpected manner due to particular design of title counter (based on VMG title number).

[borax]

Then up to 99x99 titles on disc...

But not with random play (at least not with the above mentioned script).

[minidv2dvd]

don't forget the clips can't repeat. you have to keep track of that also. there don't seem to be enough registers unless pseudo random lists are used.

[Alex_ander]

don't forget the clips can't repeat. you have to keep track of that also. there don't seem to be enough registers unless pseudo random lists are used.

There is 'shuffle' (along with 'random' and the default 'sequential') playback mode for a PGC's cell playback order, which prevents from repeating already played cells. That's apart from DLP - I don't know whether it uses the built-in (DVD spec.) options or creates its own random items.

[minidv2dvd]

what's the code for shuffle play, i haven't seen that in a vm program code list.

any chance you have a list of all the vm commands? the one at mediachance doesn't seem to be complete.

using shuffle might just work using 3 pgc's of 83 cells and using random to choose the order of the 3 pgc's.

[houstono]

It seems like the amount of clips is the biggest problem.

So I guess these are my next set of questions:

Is DVDlab Pro the "best" program to use to figure this out? Is there a way to manipulate DLP to contain the 250 clips? For example, if I have 2 titles, each with 99 chapters, how hard would it be to to script the DVD to "randomly" select Title 2: Chapter 25, and then bounce to Title 1: Chapter 47, etc, etc.

I can live with pseudo-random lists, as long as I can make a substantial amount of them, can DVDLab Pro do this?

@Alex_ander Using DVDRemake would I author a DVD first in DLP, and then go back and use DVDRemake to achieve the clip amount?

[Alex_ander]

@ minidv2dvd
It's not a special VM command, its a PGC's attribute (playback mode).
This is described in DVDRemake help file\ Reference \PGC View \ Extras Pane \ PG playback mode:

The PG playback mode specifies which of three modes of playback is to be used for the PGC. The three possible values are sequential, random and shuffle. Most PGC's use the sequential mode which plays the PGC's cells in order, one-after-another. The random and shuffle modes are very similar in their operation. In both of these modes, you specify the number of cells that you want to play in random order. The only difference between the random and shuffle modes is that the random mode may repeat a cell before the specified number of cells has been played, whereas the shuffle mode keeps track of the cells that have been played and will not repeat them until all of the cells have been played. You can specify a quantity of cells that is more than the number of cells in the PGC, in which case, cells will be played more than once.

@houstono
Yes, I meant the possibility to randomize PGC playback in an already authored DVD. Probably it is also possible to combine what DLP offers and editing PGC attributes. E.g. using registers for going to a random PGC + playing it in random internal order + using cell commands in some cells for going outside that PGC (to another one with random playback), etc. Much of manual editing of course.

[borax]

Shuffle play is also supported by MuxMan:
http://www.mpucoder.com/Muxman/mxp/ex_random.shtml
BUT: The 'random function' for shuffle also uses the player internal random number generator. AFAIK most stand alone players repeat the same pseudo random number sequence each time you start the DVD. That's why the above mentioned script was created. If the player internal random number generator would really create 'random', the approach with the quite complex script would not be necessary at all.

It seems like the amount of clips is the biggest problem.

No, with 'normal' playing (even with menus where each of the 250 clips is selectable) there is no problem at all. But 250 clips which are played in a 'true' random sequence without repeat is a problem!

[minidv2dvd]

i think it got a little easier. maybe if you start with 5 titles with 50 clips(cells) each set to play in shuffle mode, and create a bunch of lists of the order in which to play the titles as is 12345, 21345, 31245, etc then use the vm random command to choose the list it might work.

if it were a pc program i'd have the random number generator constantly picking numbers until the user pressed start, but i don't think i'd attempt it in dvd vm commands.

[borax]

if it were a pc program i'd have the random number generator constantly picking numbers until the user pressed start, but i don't think i'd attempt it in dvd vm commands.

Something like this is done in the dvdlab tutorial: It starts a counter when the DVD is put in the player and uses the value as seed for the random generator when the user starts anything with the remote. Unfortunately there is no such possibility to set a seed to the player internal random number generator...
Within GfD I have a possibility to create a random playlist. If you wold create a bunch of them, this could also be used for this purpose:
http://download.videohelp.com/gfd/Help/PlayLists.html