MPG with A/V sync to AVI with horrible A/V sync?

[mgh]

Use ProjectX to demultiplex and repair problematic mpeg2 files before conversion

Had seen this recommendation long back in these forums-has worked for me the couple of times when i had a/v sync problems from ripped DVDs

[RedPenguin]

I have one problem left.

When I do the one TV station's recording which are 704*480, nothing goes wrong.

Yet, when I try the ones at 1920*1080, Windows Media Player plays them fine but when I use MPEG2Source, suddenly they are played so slowly it's amazing. Looks just like a picture slideshow instead yet the audio is fine.

EDIT: Just so it's clear, I'm not talking about it playing slow in VirtualDub only. In MPC it plays just as slow.

EDIT #2: I tried using ProjectX on the files before but I never seemed to get anywhere. It seems like this DGIndex break method seems to be the only working method.

Whatever the station does to their video/audio when they send it across, must not be that great for a computer or at least an editor on a computer, without some time consuming methods.

[RedPenguin]

I found out how to convert the other videos giving me a problem.

It looks like I still use the same method using DGIndex, but there is a small bit more work.

What I have to do is, use DGIndex, then load in VirtualDub with AVS script, but I think have to apply a resize filter to 720x480, convert, than see if I need any audio delay.

MPC/VirtualDub can't seem to play the file with such a huge size but can at 720x480.

[jagabo]

It doesn't really matter that you can't play the 1920x1080 videos smoothly -- as far as conversion is concerned. Your CPU should be powerful enough to play that size MPEG 2 but probably not h.264. Is your graphics card using video overlay? If not the CPU has to convert the YV12 data to RGB and copy it to video memory. That could be what's slowing you down.

To make a DVD you want to resize to 720x480 and encode as 16:9 MPEG 2. If your 1920x1080 files are telecined moveis you will need to inverse telecine back to the 23.976 fps film frames to get the best results.

[RedPenguin]

I am running in to another problem now.

Apparently the TV station is screwy because it seems many people have reported the station as "bit-starved" or less than or around 1MB MPEG-2.

This seems to cause both the ATSC and QAM versions to have lip sync issues on live TV.

My problem I'm facing now is, on some splits, I will actually get a dead on delay for the beginning but it seems to not be dead on when you go a little further in to the clip.

This was not happening with many of the videos just some here and there.

[DarrellS]

You can save yourself a lot of headaches by using VideoRedo TV Suite. It is made specifically for DVRs and TV capture devices. I spent the last 6 months trying to fix the sync issues on all my friends DVDs from a Philips Recorder that recorded from his COX DVR. It was a nightmare. He installed VideoRedo and I've done about 20 more DVDs and haven't had one single sync issue. We were having to convert to AVI in Virtualdub to fix the low volume problems from the COX box but the volume is louder using VideoRedo and it can raise the volume level also. Now he is just saving as MPEG2 to avoid losing any quality from re-encoding the files.

You can set it to cut out commercials or save seperate clips in batch mode. It supports Program Streams, Transport Streams and VOBs.

You can try it for free...

http://www.videoredo.com/en/ProductTVS.htm

Here is the forum which has plenty of support and user guides...

http://www.videoredo.net/msgBoard/index.php

[RedPenguin]

I must be missing something with VideoRedo though.

VideoRedo seems to be able to cut out commericals for me just fine.

Yet I can't seem to change the size to 720x480 and take the bitrate down to kps instead of mbs.

So basically I end up with a 25 minute show at 1.6GB, which is way higher than I wanted and why I was using VirtualDub to try and get down to around 175-200MB.

[jagabo]

VideoRedo is just an MPEG editor. Use it to fix and trim your MPEG files, then use VirtualDub to convert to AVI.

[RedPenguin]

VideoRedo is just an MPEG editor. Use it to fix and trim your MPEG files, then use VirtualDub to convert to AVI.

Well, I still seem to be out of luck then trying that program.

Because VirtualDub still doesn't get the voices right loading up the file in the MPEG2 filter.

[RedPenguin]

Could it be the fact that the station actually has A/V sync issues on the live ATSC/QAM versions on TV, is why I can't get a nice working video?

I have watched the channel live on Cable and via converter boxes at my house and my friends house and we have noticed huge problems with A/V sync on live TV.

Once myself and two others were watching, not a single one of us had any doubt there was A/V sync issues, so it's not anyone's imagination.

Could this fact alone be causing most of my headaches?

EDIT: Anyway, I seem to be having some luck with using ProjectX to convert to M2P, which seems to fix any number of errors, then using the DGIndex split method.

[jagabo]

Could it be the fact that the station actually has A/V sync issues... I have watched the channel live on Cable and via converter boxes at my house and my friends house and we have noticed huge problems with A/V sync on live TV... Could this fact alone be causing most of my headaches?

Yes.

[RedPenguin]

Could it be the fact that the station actually has A/V sync issues... I have watched the channel live on Cable and via converter boxes at my house and my friends house and we have noticed huge problems with A/V sync on live TV... Could this fact alone be causing most of my headaches?

Yes.

That's most likely it.

I've noticed that no matter what tuner watches this channel, it takes a few seconds to recover from the national feed to local commercials and back again.

The picture will actually freeze somewhat and then in about 2-3 seconds will recover.

It's like the tuners do not expect some change in the signal and need time to readjust.

[RedPenguin]

How do I know what Bitrate I want?

Normally I like the standard 175MB for about 22-24 minutes and 350 for 42-44.

Anyway, I end up with 3-4 pieces, so how do I know what bitrate to encode each piece at to end up with an overall size I want?

[jagabo]

I end up with 3-4 pieces, so how do I know what bitrate to encode each piece at to end up with an overall size I want?

It's a pain if you want a particular file size. You have to run each section through the first pass of a 2-pass encode with Xvid set to keep the first pass video. Then note the size of each resulting video and the total. You now know what percentage of your desired file size to allocate to each segment. Then run the second passes with each segment at the necessary bitate.

I would just run a target quantizer encode and not worry about the files size. Just figure out what quantizer gives you about the size/quality you want and use that on all your files.

[RedPenguin]

Alright, that's what I thought.

Actually I was using the Qualitizer at 8.0, which never failed me.

Though for some reason it ends up adding blur to my color TV recordings, yet doesn't do it to B&W.

Anyway, 4.0 seems to get the right size for most recordings, yet once in a while it randomly makes them two large even though they are of the same time from the same station.

[jagabo]

When using target quantizer mode many properties of the video will effect the size of the file. Noisy video, high action, flickering lights, fire and smoke, bright scenes, highly detailed scenes, etc. all require more bitrate.

[RedPenguin]

So what should I do in such cases?

Just attempt to lower the quantilizer?

I mean sometimes it wants to make the file 3x as large.

[jagabo]

Use a higher quantizer for a smaller file.

[RedPenguin]

Uhhhh.

Now I am stuck in converting again.

Now the A/V is only in sync like half-way through the splits.

I can either sync the beginning to the middle or the middle to the end, but I can't get slices themselves to match up.

I will say do Part1, will sync for a while then instantly not be in sync.

Is there anyway to just use some program like MPEG2VCR to just keep MPG and make it a much smaller MPG?

[RedPenguin]

I found a way easier method that seems to work WAY easier than the DGIndex method and actually seems to work.

Basically I use VideoRedo to cut all commericals and split the episodes, than just load the resulting MPGs into VirtualDub and it doesn't seem like I have A/V sync anymore in VirtualDub.

Then I can just convert those to AVI.

I'm still testing it out but it seems like this method is working pretty good.

I think this method works mainly because VDub doesn't get mixed up due to commercials and also I noticed VideoRedo says it found a lot of error and removed some Video Resync frames or something to that nature.

[RedPenguin]

jagabo, I just wanted to say thanks again, for all of your help.

Through your suggestions, I have learned valueable tools like DGIndex, AviSynth, and some other tools involved in the process.

Though I have tested this new method using VideoRedo to cut all commercials and split up the episodes, save, open in VirtualDub, save with whatever codecs of choice.

I have tested it on 4 videos, 2 from the lower bandwidth/non-HD channel and one from a high bandwidth HD channel (the 1920x1080 ones).

The resulting video looks great and it's around the size that I originally wanted.

Now I just have a lot of work to do because I have a HUGE amount of HD taken up, until I can convert all of the videos.

[jagabo]

You're welcome RedPenguin.

It sounds like VideoRedo is fixing all A/V sync problems. I'll have to keep that in mind. I'm waiting for them to update the program so it can edit my Hauppauge HD PVR's h.264/aac TS files.

There is one final issue you should consider. VirtualDub does not handle interlaced MPEG chroma channels (interlaced YV12) correctly unless you use Fast Recompress mode. The problem was discussed here:

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic371550.html#1993789

The solution is to use an AviSynth script (and hence DgIndex) to open the file and convert from YV12 to YUY2 or RGB:

Mpeg2Source("filename.d2v") #YV12 source
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)

Mpeg2Source("filename.d2v") #YV12 source
ConvertToRGB(interlaced=true)

Or you can use VirtualDubMod which handles interlaced YV12 properly.

Any of those will give you cleaner results than opening the file directly in VirtualDub.

[RedPenguin]

I only have one question about XviD's qualitizer.

When I set 4.0, it works good for three color shows that I record. It sets about 150-175 for a 22-25, about what the Internet standard seems to be.

Yet, when I try and convert basically the same length show in B&W, suddenly it tries to make the video around 350 for 22-25 minutes, so I have to make it 8.0.

4.0 vs 8.0 seems to really have no impact on the quality, but I always thought B&W would result in a smaller file at a higher quality, but obviously I have seen evidence to the contrary.

[jagabo]

When I set 4.0, it works good for three color shows that I record. It sets about 150-175 for a 22-25, about what the Internet standard seems to be.

Yet, when I try and convert basically the same length show in B&W, suddenly it tries to make the video around 350 for 22-25 minutes, so I have to make it 8.0.

I suspect the latter film had a lot of film grain noise. Noise makes video difficult to compress.

4.0 vs 8.0 seems to really have no impact on the quality,

There is a big difference between Q=4 and Q=8. Open the videos VirtualDub. Right click on the left pane and zoom in 400 percent. See all the huge macroblocks in the Q=8 video? The Q=4 video will have less macroblocking. The original video even less. Here's an example of a fuzzy background from a grainy old film enlarged 4x (nearest neighbor) with Xvid's playback deblocking disabled:

but I always thought B&W would result in a smaller file at a higher quality, but obviously I have seen evidence to the contrary.

In my experience B/W and color are about the same in compressibility.

[RedPenguin]

I see what you mean.

I think it's mainly due to this particular station in my area that broadcasts both on QAM (Digital Cable) and ATSC (Over-The-Air) in a low quality format which I believe makes "noise".

I noticed that VirtualDub's Projected File Size will jump up and down on some of the recordings from this network, but recordings from other networks, keeps Project File Size about the same the whole way through.

I think the "noise" is mainly blurring because the station's logo it self actually blurs constantly or flickers, whatever you want to call it.

It looks like I have to adjust the Qualitizer once in a while, when I get a video that doesn't like 4.0, usually 8.0 gets it in the size range I need.

I would love to keep 4.0 on always, but sometimes it wants to make the video 2 to 3 times the size I am looking for.

[RedPenguin]

Well, now I have two recordings that are from the day I witnessed the station's A/V sync messing up on live TV.

Playing the MPG confirms it's the same way in the original recording.

Now the only problem is, even though I can easily fix the whole video with -350ms, if I try and use 4.0 qualitizer of either DivX or XviD, it attempts to make the size 350mb+, but if I go down to 8.0 to get it within the size I want, it makes it horrible quality.

Though, the video is bad quality to begin with, it makes the video pathetic.

I mean it's blocking everywhere.

Anyway, what is recommended in this case? Should I just live with the 350MB or more size, even though it's only 22 minutes and 16 seconds?

[jagabo]

It's up to you: Live with a big file or a low quality file. Or try a quantizer between 4 and 8 as a compromise.

You can also try using Neat Video to reduce noise. That should bring the bitrate down. Or a combination of 2D Cleaner and Temporal Smoother.

Oh, and be sure to use Xvid's deblocking filters on playback.

[DarrellS]

if I try and use 4.0 qualitizer of either DivX or XviD, it attempts to make the size 350mb+, but if I go down to 8.0 to get it within the size I want, it makes it horrible quality.

There is your problem. You want to have a small file and you cannot have a small file without having terrible quality. I myself would never use a quantizer higher than 3 but I only care about quality and could give a crap about file size.

You have to make up your mind what you want, good quality or small file size. You can't have both.

[manono]

Rather than upping the quant to get the smaller size, try lowering the resolution. That's a surefire way to get the size down. The question then becomes:

How low can you go?

[RedPenguin]

Well I will try as a test lowering the resolution and using the Neat Video program.

Though I believe most likely, I will just not care about the size.

I guess mainly I was worried about the size when it came to burning them to data DVDs, I try if possible to use less DVDs when I finally burn them to DVD.

Though, I think I shouldn't really worry since DVDs are becoming cheap. Often you can get 50 for $10 or 100 for $20 at many places when they have sales.

The only thing is, I hope they don't just 100% give up on DVDs for Blu-Ray. I would love Blu-Ray but I believe the prices for them will be high for a very long time like DVDs seemed to be when they first came out until about many two years ago.