Best import to Quicktime...

[bsuska]

I just recently purchased QuickTime Pro to encode with H.264. Problem is I usually use Avisynth to deinterlace and resize my DV video and I can't export with a lossless codec that QuickTime will read. QuickTime won't even read an uncompressed RGB file. I'd like to use Lagarith, but it won't read that neither. Obviously I'd like to use a lossless codec before my final H.264 encode...anyone have any suggestions?

[poisondeathray]

Not sure why you would use QTPro to encode h.264 if you are on Windows platform. There is a much better (in terms of quality, speed, configurability) and free choice, x264 encoder, with dozens of front ends to choose from, and they usually accept most formats without the limitations of QT

For anything to open in QT, you usually need a .mov wrapper. So you could try re-wrapping your lossless .avi in .mov with ffmpeg, but I would seriously consider not using QT, at least for encoding

[bsuska]

Cool...not sure how busy you are today, but would you mind walking me through using this x264.exe? I've downloaded this exe file...when I double click it, I see a flash of a black box. I've also downloaded HandBrake as this is a front end deal?

Thanks...

[poisondeathray]

Yep, handbrake is a front end for x264. Other commonly used ones would include ripbot264, xvid4psp, megui, automkv, a few others... They just serve as GUI's (graphical user interface), to make the process easier

[bsuska]

Thanks poisondeathray,

So when I double clicked the x264.exe did that just install some drivers? Which front end do you recommend?

[poisondeathray]

it's a command line encoder. It will be included in all the GUI's listed above. Just use your lossless intermediate as the input file and they will encode it.

Easy to use ones would be handbrake, ripbot264 and xvid4psp. megui is harder to use, but more comprehensive

[bsuska]

Cool...looks easy enough. I noticed that handbrake has deinterlacing, crop, and resize tools within it. Do you still recommend using avisynth over this?

[poisondeathray]

Most of them will accept avs scripts, and often the GUIs use avisynth internally for many of their tools & filters. So when you are cropping, deinterlacing etc... it's actually using avisynth in the background

[Lippy Lipstick]

Actually there is a way to import an Avisynth-script directly into Quicktime Pro: install the Pismo File Mount Audit Package (www.pismotechnic.com). It's freeware. After installation right-click on the AVS-script and choose 'Quick Mount'. A virtual folder will be created including a virtual AVI which CAN be opened by Quicktime Pro without any problems.

[bsuska]

I just hopped on the Handbrake user forum and asked if it was using Avisynth for its filters and received this reply - "Nope". I ran a comparison between a file resized, cropped, decombed in Handbrake and a file resized, cropped, and deinterlaced through Avisynth via VirtualDub. I would have to say that the Handbrake file looked better. Also, the user interface is much easier to use with less intermediate files (I don't have to go to Huff out of Virtual Dub). Is this possible? Everything I've heard is that nobody can touch Avisynth.

[poisondeathray]

IIRC it's "decomb" is actually using yadifmod + eedi, based on avisynth (which is a very good deinterlacer with most sources, yadifmod + nnedi is actually slightly better but slower). It's actually a misnomer, because "decomb" is well known avisynth filter that predated handbrake for years

You can have more control and slightly better results with avisynth (e.g. tempgaussmc_beta1), but if you're happy then that's all that matters. Handbrake is a good choice, as are many of the other GUI's listed above

vdub is not a good choice for another reason: it is limited to AVI for export, and uses x264vfw, not the cli version. However, if all the settings, filters, and x264 version were the same you should have identical results

[bsuska]

Hey poisondeathray...I've encoded a bunch of files with Handbrake and also straight from Premiere in the H.264 file format. I know that this might be an impossible question to answer (considering how many variables are introduced) but in every one of my final H.264 video files, the audio is out of sync with the video. I can encode the same file to .flv and the synchronization is fine. Any ideas?

[poisondeathray]

Even the ones straight from Adobe Media Encoder were out of sync?

Can you characterize it? e.g. constant sync issue, or does it progressively worsen?

What was the source (what do you mean by "a bunch of files?") , and did you do anything in premiere?

What process did you use to encode to flv that resulted in synced files?

[bsuska]

Yes, it is really weird. Straight out of Premiere. It is a constant sync issue the audio is a slit second too quick. The files that I'm editing are DV files in Premiere and then exporting. I just ran another test...encoding the exact same file to a h.264 and then to flv with the same bitrate settings...same result. Would the frequency that the AAC settings have anything to do with it? I can't see how this would affect sync? Funny thing is, if I export to an intermediate video file (DV again) and then use the standalone Flash video encoder to encode the FLV and then use Handbrake to encode the h.264 I arrive at the same results. It seems that this machine just can't encode to H.264 no matter the application...

[poisondeathray]

It is a constant sync issue the audio is a slit second too quick.

This is simple to fix with a delay applied. But I'm still curious as to why it's happening

Would the frequency that the AAC settings have anything to do with it? I can't see how this would affect sync?

If you mean the sample rate, it shouldn't

When you export intermediate DV file, is that DV file in sync? or intermediate flv file?

If your listed specs are correct, (Pentium 3) , it maybe a playback issue (i.e. PC too old) , not an encoding or workflow issue. I think this is likely the issue. Test the files on a different computer at work or at a friends house

[bsuska]

Thanks for looking into this...I really want to use H.264 codec, but I've got a ton of short clips to encode, and if the audio doesn't sync up religiously, I might have to stay with flv.

Yes, the intermediate file is synced correctly.

Lack of playback power has crossed my mind before, so I did a quick test again just to make sure. Same result. The H.264's embedded audio (I'm convinced) is off. Sorry, I needed to update my profile so my current computer specs are correct. The machine I'm using is pretty fast, so H.264 decoding shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

What software are you using for testing playback?

Try something else for playback like KMPlayer, SMPlayer or MPCHC what happens?

Do a quick test: use the intermediate DV or FLV and encode with xvid4psp or ripbot264 or megui => what happens?

[bsuska]

We may be on to something here.

I use a player called FLV Player to look at my FLV's. I used the same program to view my H.264 files, but the playback seems choppy. So, I decided to use a reputable program like Quicktime to view the file. I guess looking back that is when I noticed the sync problem. I just viewed the H.264 file in that old FLV Player program and although the framerate seems jacked the sync seems to be okay. I'm using the latest version of Quicktime. Could it be that Quicktime just can't play these files correctly, and they will actually look fine when published and viewed on a web page via the Flash Player? I'm going to install one of the players that you recommended and check the results.

[poisondeathray]

QT Player only supports AVC Main (not High, not >1 or 2 b-frames, no I8x8 etc.. - basically it's a crappy player and doesn't support highest quality files or encoding options). FLV player has flash overhead, and is even a worse player than QT

What is the goal of these files? Internet distribution on flash? Or PC playback ? You have to encode them with different settings. Using a good media player , you can play back almost anything

If you need files compatible with QT player, you have to use lower quality settings. You can do this with QT through AME using h.264/aac in .mov

If you are testing for embedded flash playback, you should test locally with an html page and through adobe flash player. If you are using DV source (i.e SD frame size), even older PC's should be able to handle it without much problems, even using higher quality encoding settings and profiles

[bsuska]

Great info...maybe Quicktime should post on their site - warning...crappy player!

From what I've read, one should always encode to the High profile when encoding for computer playback.

Yes, internet distribution via Flash is the end goal. Any ideas on how to test locally with a web page and Flash? I know back in the day, Macromedia at the time would install a standalone Flash Player, but I do not see that with my CS3 Adobe install. When I right click the .mp4 file and have it open with Internet Explorer, it actually opens it with Quicktime. When I right click the .mp4 file the dialog box actually gives me the option of my Flash Player, but when I try and open it...nothing happens.

[poisondeathray]

Yes, internet distribution via Flash is the end goal. Any ideas on how to test locally with a web page and Flash? I know back in the day, Macromedia at the time would install a standalone Flash Player, but I do not see that with my CS3 Adobe install. When I right click the .mp4 file and have it open with Internet Explorer, it actually opens it with Quicktime. When I right click the .mp4 file the dialog box actually gives me the option of my Flash Player, but when I try and open it...nothing happens.

Are you using your own host? or another 3rd party site that re-encodes the video like youtube?

I do it with an html page, xml file, and use jw media player as the front end and I open it up with IE. You need to know basic html code. Flow player is another free option to JW as a flash front end. All flash players use Adobe Flash 10 as the backend and should playback the same; the differences in the front ends are features, skins, playlists etc... So this simulates exactly what you are getting when you upload your webpage to your host (with the exception of bandwidth overhead).

[bsuska]

Yes, I am the host. So to test you don't do anything quite as easy as double clicking? :0)

[poisondeathray]

Yes, I am the host. So to test you don't do anything quite as easy as double clicking? :0)

You can test with good media players such as the ones I listed, but they are better than adobe flash for playback, so it's not representative (flash has poorly multithreaded decoder and is much slower than "normal" media players)

Search around for adobe standalone flash player.

But it's not as good as a test as setting up your own page and testing locally through html and emulating the exact conditions (except bandwidth)

[bsuska]

Thanks so much...love the knowledge you are dropping.

One more question...

I've got a ton of product videos that I need to encode for my company. The whole reason this thread came about was because I came across that the H.264 file format was the best, and the fact that I could use Handbrake (or another front end) to deinterlace and resize (hence using avisynth) my footage was the way to go. Apparently, the resizer and deinterlacer in Premiere and Adobe Flash Video Encoder are junk. I have run tests...and when I do deinterlace and resize using Virtual Dub and avisynth...and then bring that file into Adobe Flash Video encoder...my results are much nicer than relying on the Flash Video Encoder deinterlacer and resizer. With Handbrake it is much easier for me to take my DV file and Decomb and resize all in one spot...saving me a lot of time (although I can't batch encode!) and the resulting H.264 files looks great as well...if not nicer.

I've done a lot of reading recently, and really it seems that it is a toss up betweeen the VP 6 codec and H.264 codec. Each has its own strengths. The question I have is about the licensing for H.264 content. Everything I've read is quite confusing. I've read that they are going to decide in 2010 if we'll need to pay for the video we've encoded with H.264. Is that because the x.264 aps are free right now? It seems like it would be a logistical nigtmare for anyone to go through all of the H.264 encoded video out there and try and charge for it. Any thoughts...

[poisondeathray]

Yes the deinterlacer in Adobe is junk. I don't really use handbrake, but there is a CLI and I think you can set it up to batch encode (not sure? check the handbrake forum).

In terms of quality, VP6 is far, far, far inferior. The difference is like night/day. The *only* time you would use it is for alpha channel preservation in flash.

As for the licensing it has to do with MPEG-LA. This happens with everything commercial and not only h.264 as a format. I'm not well versed on the licensing issues for commercial content. I would check with the folks at Doom9 forum and the MPEG-LA webpage, there have been several posts regarding this, and many of the developers are well informed on this subject

[bsuska]

Thanks for all of your help. Like I said earlier...quality wise it seems to make a lot of sense for me to start encoding with H.264, but I'm scared aobut having to pay down the road. I still don't understand how they would enforce this. As far as other codecs are concerned are the licensing fees wrapped into the cost of the software?

[poisondeathray]

Thanks for all of your help. Like I said earlier...quality wise it seems to make a lot of sense for me to start encoding with H.264, but I'm scared aobut having to pay down the road. I still don't understand how they would enforce this. As far as other codecs are concerned are the licensing fees wrapped into the cost of the software?

If this is for commercial use, the "proper" way to do it is obtain a license and pay fees. This is true even for other formats other than h.264. e.g. the game trailers in video games that sometimes use video as a format=> the game studios have paid a fee to MPEG-LA. If you are a small operation, it might not be feasible for them to "chase" you down, but technically it would be illegal.

As I said earlier, I'm not too familar with the legal aspects, so I suggest you ask others who are better versed. There are a bunch at Doom9 that know about this stuff, I suggest you search and ask there