Question about legality of uploading/downloading English subtitles

[jimdagys]

I know that there are many seemingly above- board websites where you can upload and download English subtitles for movies. My question is: What is the Hollywood's position on this practice? I would think that Hollywood would consider ripped subtitles to be copyrighted intellectual property and that they would make a statement saying that uploading/downloading subtitles is illegal.

[nwo]

it's illegal, as you download a full movie script.

[jimdagys]

Has Hollywood ever gone after subtitle sites as they have done with illegal movie sites?

[MOVIEGEEK]

It is illegal but I haven't heard of any lawsuits in the US,I have read about arrests in Germany and Poland though.
Sharing video is where the biggest infringement comes from so I doubt the MPAA goes after people who share subtitles.

[jagabo]

I haven't heard of the MPAA going after subtitle sites but the RIAA has gone after song lyric sites.

[jimdagys]

What I find interesting is that the leading subtitles sites give absolutely no indication that downloading/uploading subtitles is illegal. From one leading website:

Openxxxxxxxxx.org ("this website") offers direct downloads off our own server. These files are NOT illegal warez downloads, we only offer files that we believe we are free to redistribute. If any doubt occurs about the legality of any of our file downloads we will take them off right away after contacting us. We do not offer any kind of video/movie (avi, divx, xvid...) files or audio (mp3, wma, waw) files - we mainly provide movie's subtitles translated by users. Commercial use prohibited.

On the other hand, Pirate Bay gives every indication that downloading/uploading is illegal. I once asked a public library in the USA to rip subtitles for me. I told them it wasn't illegal. They wouldn't do it for me. This is very confusing. I wish the subtitle sites would state the official Hollywood stance on this topic.

[jagabo]

From one leading website:

Openxxxxxxxxx.org ("this website") offers direct downloads off our own server. These files are NOT illegal warez downloads, we only offer files that we believe we are free to redistribute.

It's not confusing. They are simply wrong. It's just that the MPAA (or local equivalent) hasn't come after them yet.

[Supreme2k]

Why would you ask the library to do that for you? It's akin to buying a hookah pipe and asking that the retailer put hash in it (I'm not talking about "those" guys )

I think that fansubs are okay/legal.

[jimdagys]

Until now, I had no sure idea that it was illegal.

[jagabo]

Suppose you bought an audio book of the latest big hit novel. You then transcribed it word for word and uploaded the text to a web site. Isn't it obvious that's a copyright infringement? Why would a movie be any different?

I suppose you might try arguing fair use. The subs are being provided for free. They are only a small part of the overall movie (not of the screenplay though). The work is transformative (if another language). It's not obvious the subs (in and of themselves) diminish the market for the publisher.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Until now, I had no sure idea that it was illegal.

Since you live in mainland China there are lots of things that are considered legal when it comes to copyrights.
BTW:fair use would only apply if it's for personal or educational use.

[jagabo]

BTW:fair use would only apply in the US or UK if it's for personal use.

Fair use is not limited to personal use. Some examples: A book reviewer can quote a small section of a book. A movie reviewer on TV can show a short segment of the movie (in practice the clips are usually provided by the studio but the reviewer could use other clips -- if he could get them). A scholar can publish excerpts as part of a larger work.

[Noahtuck]

Why would you ask the library to do that for you? It's akin to buying a hookah pipe and asking that the retailer put hash in it (I'm not talking about "those" guys )

I think that fansubs are okay/legal.

Yeah i was wondering about that question myself....

What planet are you living on that you would think a public library would take the time to figure out how to, do it on their pc then give you the ripped subs in text form to you



Borrow the damn things from the library and do it yourself

[KBeee]

Just a thought, but if the subtitles are English, then it implies the original movie is "foreign" so the MPAA or Hollywood wouldn't have any interest or jurisdiction over them.
The local equivalent of the MPAA would be a different matter of course.

[AlanHK]

What I find interesting is that the leading subtitles sites give absolutely no indication that downloading/uploading subtitles is illegal.

Of course not.
Who would be so stupid as to put on their website "We're breaking the law, come and sue us".

Both the RIAA and the sites offering subtitles are interested parties and you should take neither's word for whether it was illegal or not.

Personally, I think it clear that subtitles are a derivative work and so technically a violation.
But fortunately, hardly anyone is so anal as to pursue these.

I've heard of a few subtitle sites in Europe that were threatened and shut down. But mostly they leave them alone.

Personally I use them when I buy a DVD locally, in Hong Kong, and it either has no English subtitles, or really bad ones (i.e. looking like they've been through Google translate three times, making less sense each time). So I download some from Opensubtitles or Kloofy or a similar site, fix and replace them.

Same for me as gluing the spine of a book back on, due to the shoddiness of the publisher.

On the other hand, Pirate Bay gives every indication that downloading/uploading is illegal.

No, they certainly do not.
Please indicate the page where they do so.

[jimdagys]

Somewhere on the Pirate Bay website is a place where they brag about their confrontations with Hollywood. From this, it is obvious that Pirate Bay focuses on illegal material.

[Noahtuck]

Just a thought, but if the subtitles are English, then it implies the original movie is "foreign" so the MPAA or Hollywood wouldn't have any interest or jurisdiction over them.
The local equivalent of the MPAA would be a different matter of course.

HUH??

The vast majority of movies in english, made in the U.S. & released in the U.S. have english subtitles.

[jagabo]

Somewhere on the Pirate Bay website is a place where they brag about their confrontations with Hollywood. From this, it is obvious that Pirate Bay focuses on illegal material.

No, their claim is that they host no copyrighted material (they are only an index and search engine) so they don't respond to Hollywood's threats. Well, they respond, just not in the way Hollywood expects.

[AlanHK]

Somewhere on the Pirate Bay website is a place where they brag about their confrontations with Hollywood. From this, it is obvious that Pirate Bay focuses on illegal material.

If you read it, it's obvious that is not what they say at all.

Just because some lawyer sends you a threatening letter does not mean you are automatically guilty.