Pizza Box DTV Antenna (UHF only)

[edDV]

I'm in a DTV hole here with a ridge blocking Sacramento and San Francisco stations behind me and hills limiting reception of distant stations to the northwest. I purchased a DTV converter box anyway and started experimenting with simple rabbit ears and UHF loops. To my surprise I was able to pick up a translator on Sutter Buttes ~55 miles distant and ~1000ft below me. The channel 58 signal strength was intermittent at 0-35% so I decided to build something more directional. The Pizza box antenna shown below was an immediate success with solid 45-65% on the meter. On Friday the translator switched to channel 28 and signal strength jumped to 89-100% depending on weather conditions. This just shows that line-of-sight and antenna height are important for distant reception. The converter box is a Channel Master CM-7000.





List of materials

1. Sam's 16" pizza box (eat pizza)
2. 16"x16" aluminum foil
3. Cardboard or wood 2x4 16-20" long
4. 4x coat hanger pieces clipped to 14" and folded into > <
5. Piece of twin lead folded
6. 300 ohm to 75 ohm coax antenna balun
7. 75 ohm RG59 or RG6 coax cable
8. 3x paper clips
9. 4x wood screws (don't hit the foil, file off coat hanger paint at screw point)

And most important to make it stand up

10. 2x feet from external hard drive enclosures

[MOVIEGEEK]

Ummmm.....pizza.
I would of used a Pizza Hut box but whatever works for you highlanders.

[Midzuki]

Another chapter added to my hand-written "Handbook of Low Technology".

Thanks for the info, edDV.

[edDV]

I should have mentioned this is for UHF reception only. Also you need to file paint off at the coat hanger V screw connection point. I made additions above.

I would have made it look nicer if I thought it would work

It points out a west facing window behind a curtain so nobody sees it anyway.

[edDV]

Found this video on the the Sutter Buttes transmitter site. Not open to the public.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5508084695761188750

Amazing what can be found on the internet.

[minidv2dvd]

hehe. 15 minutes?? i gave up after a couple, but you sure it wasn't you holding that cam..... 8)

[edDV]

hehe. 15 minutes?? i gave up after a couple, but you sure it wasn't you holding that cam..... 8)

Nope I would have edited the thing. The good stuff is near the end. Funny they found a young woman doing the transmitter rebuild work at the top while these "radio guys" enjoyed the view.

I did enjoy the Funicular to reach the top. Reminded me of Switzerland.

[DarrellS]

Here is a similar antenna. I've seen versions with a cardboard and foil reflector and a wire shelf reflector attached to the back of the 2x4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw

Here is the same antenna with the guts of the worthless amplified indoor antenna attached to pick up VHF. My PhilipsUS2-MANT510 is different so I'm not sure how to attach it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHjiBFiVeRQ

[edDV]

Here is a similar antenna. I've seen versions with a cardboard and foil reflector and a wire shelf reflector attached to the back of the 2x4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw

Yes but mine is in a Pizza box I better append a (c) and a TM

True that an eight element is ~50% more directive but is also about 5 feet tall

Here is the same antenna with the guts of the worthless amplified indoor antenna attached to pick up VHF. My PhilipsUS2-MANT510 is different so I'm not sure how to attach it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHjiBFiVeRQ

I agree a solution is needed for upper VHF as well but this linked solution is somewhat lame. It all depends on signal strength from the transmitter.

[DarrellS]

I put an aluminum foil back on my 2x4 to see if it would help any and I lost Fox and NBC so now I'm not getting any of the lower channels. Well, ABC channel 3 kind of comes in but it's like I'm getting a frame every two seconds. I'm afraid to tear up the HDTV antenna to see if it will work on this. It doesn't work now so I don't see how it would work if I tore it apart.

With all the research that was put into this DTV transition, I'd say it is a fail. Until they put all the major channels on UHF, it is totally worthless. The whole idea was supposedly to make sure people could get the local news and weather and they killed all those channels for most people.

All this DTV thing is, is a way to force poor people to get cable or satelliteTV or go without TV. Most communities aren't going to let people put huge antennas on their roof. Mine won't.


BTW, my home made antenna is only 2 feet high.
Good thing it's in the bedroom. I'd be embarassed to have it in the livingroom.

[edDV]

I put an aluminum foil back on my 2x4 to see if it would help any and I lost Fox and NBC so now I'm not getting any of the lower channels. Well, ABC channel 3 kind of comes in but it's like I'm getting a frame every two seconds. I'm afraid to tear up the HDTV antenna to see if it will work on this. It doesn't work now so I don't see how it would work if I tore it apart.

With all the research that was put into this DTV transition, I'd say it is a fail. Until they put all the major channels on UHF, it is totally worthless. The whole idea was supposedly to make sure people could get the local news and weather and they killed all those channels for most people.

All this DTV thing is, is a way to force poor people to get cable or satelliteTV or go without TV. Most communities aren't going to let people put huge antennas on their roof. Mine won't.


BTW, my home made antenna is only 2 feet high.
Good thing it's in the bedroom. I'd be embarassed to have it in the livingroom.

Where are you DarrellS? Maybe I can help. Did you run TV fool?

The digital changeover had secondary purpose to help rural peeps but was all about compressing TV bandwidth into half the space to make way for wireless iPhones and to consolidate emergency comunications into 800 MHz.

They did leave enough channels for most (not me) to still get OTA TV. Upper VHF reaches further than UHF in most cases so what is your problem?

[DarrellS]

I live in northwest Phoenix (El Mirage) which is 23 miles from the towers on South Mountain. I ran TV Fool and it said I should be able to get 18 channels with an indoor antenna, including all the channels on VHF - 3, 5, 8, 10 and 12 but with the amplified UHF/VHF indoor antenna I can only get six channels now. With the homemade UHF antenna, I'm getting more UHF channels than TV Fool said I should get but I cannot get any of the VHF channels.

A year ago, with the amplified antenna, I could get around 30 channels and I thought I was getting like 4 or 5 PBS channels.

My problem is that I like to record sports and music in HD with my HD capture card but now I can't since none of these channels will pick up anymore. Cox cable will not allow me to capture HD content and I can't afford a Hauppauge HD PVR.

[edDV]

I live in northwest Phoenix (El Mirage) which is 23 miles from the towers on South Mountain. I ran TV Fool and it said I should be able to get 18 channels with an indoor antenna, including all the channels on VHF - 3, 5, 8, 10 and 12 but with the amplified UHF/VHF indoor antenna I can only get six channels now. With the homemade UHF antenna, I'm getting more UHF channels than TV Fool said I should get but I cannot get any of the VHF channels.

A year ago, with the amplified antenna, I could get around 30 channels and I thought I was getting like 4 or 5 PBS channels.

My problem is that I like to record sports and music in HD with my HD capture card but now I can't since none of these channels will pick up anymore. Cox cable will not allow me to capture HD content and I can't afford a Hauppauge HD PVR.

Your problem is your old and new antennas seem poor for VHF. You need an ATSC digital tuner and an upper VHF capable antenna to get these channels that are now on VHF.

KAET-DT PBS Real Ch 08 Virtual 8-1
KPNX-DT NBC Real Ch 12 Virtual 12-1
KSAZ-DT FOX Real Ch 10 Virtual 10-1

Former VHF stations that are now UHF are

KPHO-DT CBS Real Ch17 Virtual 5-1
KTVK-DT Ind Real Ch 24 Virtual 3-1

Then there are the Tucson stations.

Does your capture card have an ATSC tuner?

If it has a QAM tuner you should be able to tune all the locals off cable (without cable box) in HD when they are broadcasting HD.

[DarrellS]

From...

http://yourfreedtv.com/Phoenix/...

"RF Channels on your list numbered less than 14 are VHF. In general, they need a broader antenna than UHF channels, the ones numbered 14 and up. But there are NO VHF RF Channels in the Phoenix/Prescott/Flagstaff Area, so you won't need a bulky VHF Antenna at all."

There is so much conflicting information out there you don't know what to believe.

STATION/CHANNEL/RF CHANNEL/NETWORK

KNAZ-DT    2.1  22  NBC 
KTVK-DT    3.1  24  Ind 
KPHO-DT    5.1  17  CBS  
KPHO-DT2   5.2  17  CBS  
KPHO-DT3   5.3  17  CBS 
KMOH-DT    6.1  19  Ind 
KAZT-DT    7.1  25  Ind 
KAET-DT    8.1  29  PBS 
KAET-DT2   8.2  29  PBS 
KAET-DT3   8.3  29  PBS 
KCFG-DT    9.1  32  Ind 
KSAZ-DT   10.1  31  Fox 
KSAZ-DT2  10.2  31  Fox 
KPNX-DT   12.1  36  NBC 
KPNX-DT2  12.2  36  Ind 
KFPH-DT   13.1  27  Tel 
KNXV-DT   15.1  56  ABC 
KNXV-DT2  15.2  56  ABC 
KPAZ-DT   21.1  20  Ind 
KTVW-DT   33.1  34  USI 
KTVW-DT2  33.2  34  Tel 
KUTP-DT   45.1  26  MyN 
KUTP-DT2  45.2  26  MyN 
KPPX-DT   51.1  52  ? i 
KPPX-DT2  51.2  52  Ind 
KPPX-DT3  51.3  52  Ind 
KPPX-DT4  51.4  52  Ind 
KASW-DT   61.1  49  ?CW 

KTAZ-DT   39.1      TEL

According to Antennaweb, these are the channels I'm supposed to get with a small multi-directional antenna. My antenna is both UHF and VHF but zero VHF channels work.

My Hauppauge has a QAM tuner but I believe FOX and KAET are 720p which is why I captured OTA to get 1080i. The CW, CBS and NBC are the only 1080i stations and most QAM channels are only 480i.

[edDV]

The list above shows the temporary digital transmitters that were turned off last Friday along with the analog transmitter. There are three stations that returned to their original VHF channel for the final switch.

hmm, I was going by Rabbit Ears dot com which shows this.
http://www.rabbitears.info/dtr.php

Phoenix
KTVK DT IND 03 24 24 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? Belo......
KPHO DT CBS 05 17 17 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? Meredith..
KAET DT PBS 08 29 08 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? ..........
KSAZ DT FOX 10 31 10 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? Fox.......
KPNX DT NBC 12 36 12 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? Gannett...
KNXV DT ABC 15 56 15 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? Scripps...
KPAZ DT TBN 21 20 20 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? Trinity...
KTVW DT UNI 33 34 33 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? Univision.

KTAZ DT TLM 39 -- 39 02/17/09 20090209ADQ N NBC....... A39 to terminate at noon 2/17; D39 to sign on ASAP
KUTP DT MyN 45 26 26 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? Fox.......
KPPX DT ION 51 52 51 02/17/09 20090209ALN N ION Media.
KASW DT CW- 61 49 49 --/--/09 200902XXXXX ? Belo......

I checked FCC records for KPNX (NBC) and they are definitely on VHF channel 12.
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?call=kpnx
http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=692800&...387&q_num=5030

[edDV]

I ran an El Mirage zip through antennaweb.org and got this.

[SingSing]

How do you compare the effectiveness of yours vs these loop or bowtie?



See a lot home made UHF antenna. Is there instruction for home brew VHF antenna available ?

[lordsmurf]

What can we do for boosting VHF either with a DIY solution, or something under $40 that an be "hacked" (customized, modded, whatever the term of choice), to pick up VHF that are 30-40 miles away?

I lay behind a range of low hills, but only slightly -- and it's more or less smooth sailing to the transmitters after that, for they lie at a higher elevation, and are atop either buildings or hills as you change terrain and climb up onto the mountains, hills and plateau region.

I can pick up ABC on VHF, 33 miles away. But the others are about 38-44 miles away. Having just one station sucks.

[usually_quiet]

Most indoor antennas with VHF capability have "rabbit ears". I have one of the few UHV/VHF antennas that doesn't have them, the Terk TV4, pictured below. There's an amplified version too, the TV5.

I don't know for certain if there are any electronics inside the TV4 beyond a balum and I'm unwilling to take a chance on wrecking it to find out. It might be possible to manufacture similar elements and experiment with multi-element arrays.

[edDV]

For ~30 miles VHF only line of sight.
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/antennas/Winegard-YA-6713.html

Attic mounting may require something larger. Roofs cut the signal ~50%.
http://www.hdtvantennalabs.com/antennas/Winegard-YA-1713.html

[edDV]

How do you compare the effectiveness of yours vs these loop or bowtie?



See a lot home made UHF antenna. Is there instruction for home brew VHF antenna available ?

At $30-$40 VHF antennas are cheaper to buy than build.

[Nelson37]

How about any methods for combining two antennas? I have read that this can be done, some suggest that both antennas need to be identical and that the cable lengths to the splitter also need to be identical.

There is one station approx. 60 miles away that I used to get halfway decent on analog, nothing at all after the transfer. It's all flat between here and there (Florida) but it may be just a bit too far.

[edDV]

Did they change channels? Check TVFool or antennaweb.

[Nelson37]

Nope, its the same channel, went from 66 to 66.1. Its called ION. I'm in 33901 zip code.

It used to come in analog using the TV tuner with a Phillips MANT-10, but the digital station does not detect on the TV or seperate Samsung tuner, or on the Apex converter box connected to a Terk in another room. Had not tried the second two options on Analog, I only found this station after the initial "conversion", when most stations in my area went digital. ION just recently converted, and disappeared.

AntennaWeb lists it in the Red zone, IIRC, but I'm thinking if I could get it on Analog, Digital should be a possibility.

I have not tried re-orienting my antenna, getting it just right to receive the three major networks, Fox, CW, and three PBS stations was a major PITA. That's why I asked about combining two seperate antennas.

We're in Rainy Season here, I have noticed this definitely affected channel scans with the locals, could be weather interference, I've only scanned for it three times.

[edDV]

Nope, its the same channel, went from 66 to 66.1. Its called ION. I'm in 33901 zip code.

It used to come in analog using the TV tuner with a Phillips MANT-10, but the digital station does not detect on the TV or seperate Samsung tuner, or on the Apex converter box connected to a Terk in another room. Had not tried the second two options on Analog, I only found this station after the initial "conversion", when most stations in my area went digital. ION just recently converted, and disappeared.

AntennaWeb lists it in the Red zone, IIRC, but I'm thinking if I could get it on Analog, Digital should be a possibility.

I have not tried re-orienting my antenna, getting it just right to receive the three major networks, Fox, CW, and three PBS stations was a major PITA. That's why I asked about combining two seperate antennas.

We're in Rainy Season here, I have noticed this definitely affected channel scans with the locals, could be weather interference, I've only scanned for it three times.

There are no longer any UHF stations above 51. 66-1 is a virtual number not the RF channel. The new transmission channel is 42. Bad news from TVFool is WXPX ION is 87 miles away and has multiple hills ("2EDGE") blocking the signal. Click on the station name and see the path. It would take an antenna in this class pointed at the transmittter.
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=TD-91XG&mybuyscid=2599494754

[filmboss80]

Any suggestions on how to get one's wife to accept such monstrosities atop the tv set?

[edDV]

Any suggestions on how to get one's wife to accept such monstrosities atop the tv set?

Nope, it goes outside.

[SingSing]

Any suggestions on how to get one's wife to accept such monstrosities atop the tv set?

Hide it behind abig painting, or on the other side of the wall like Garage or Attic.

Or let her make a beatiful Afghan to cover it up. Make sure she stitch the channel number.

[lordsmurf]

Any suggestions on how to get one's wife to accept such monstrosities atop the tv set?

Hide it behind abig painting, or on the other side of the wall like Garage or Attic.
Or let her make a beatiful Afghan to cover it up. Make sure she stitch the channel number.

And then you'll lose all its power -- you can't cover it up that way.

[edDV]

Any transmitter over 70 miles away has earth curvature issues. It then comes down to transmitter antenna elevation vs. your antenna elevation.