Question about home theater system (Audio)

[jtrinc]

Hello,
Sorry if this is posted on the wrong section, but I could not find anything else for audio.
Anyway, I just started getting my home theater together, and the next step is to get a nice sound system.
My question is: what’s your recommendation? I am planning on expending between 200 and 300 bucks. I just want the receiver, the subwoofer and the speakers. I have noticed that I lot of these systems come with a DVD player, but I do not really need another DVD player. Of course, I want a receiver with DTS sound capabilities and, if possible, a USB port. By the way, I do not have any preference brand wise.
So, if there are any good deals out there, or any websites with a decent selection, please let me know. Thanks a lot!!!

[guns1inger]

I would also be looking for one that has at least 2 HDMI inputs, and can accept audio as well as video over HDMI. If it can also upscale component or s-video source with a good upscaling chip, even better, although this may push the price up.

[jtrinc]

Thanks for the info, guns1inger!
I found this at newegg.ocm:
YAMAHA RX-V365 5.1-Channel Digital Home Theater Receiver
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&SubCategory=488&N=2040310488

Speakers are not included, but it looks like a good deal. Any comments?
Thanks again!

[Midzuki]

Speakers are not included, but it looks like a good deal. Any comments?
Thanks again!

Find and get "old-fashioned" speakers --- you know, those huge wooden boxes,
from the "pre-subwoofer era" They may "look ugly", but sound is what you're after, right

[julitomg]

Don´t forget the speakers. I mean, don´t forget their importance; they are the only physical link between your sound system and your ears. If I was shopping for a home theater system (or any Hi Fi system), specially if I´m going to buy separate components, the speakers would probably be the first consideration; I´d try to purchase the best ones I can afford at the time and then look for a decent receiver to power them. Of course there are many features new models can or cannot have, but how many are not only novelty or convenience? the other day I helped a friend decide between some home theater systems (that included speakers by the way), to him it was an important feature to have an Ipod connection and finally bought one that did have it, but for me it was meaningless because I don´t own an Ipod nor want to ever buy one. HDMI in/output is nice and I´d rather have it even if I don´t have at present a Plasma/LCD set (hopefully someday soon )

[jtrinc]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.
That makes sense about the speakers. I am already going over the budget, but I saw these and they look pretty decent:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121012
Logitech G51 155 watts RMS 5.1 Surround Sound Speakers
It is just hard to make a decision without actually listening to them.
But the receiver that I listed earlier seems like a good deal... wouldn't you say?

[Cornucopia]

$200-300 for the whole thing is NOT going to sound AMAZING, even with 5-7.1 ch.

A good receiver will cost you almost that much and then you've got the speakers, and THEY'RE THE MOST IMPORTANT PART. All the rest (except the D/A in the receiver) is digital and is, basically, set however high quality the producers of the material decided it. The only thing that truly can affect the analog quality is the choice of speakers, their placement in the room, and the shape/size/decor of the room.

IIWY, I'd get full range speakers (not teensy satellites that rely on the sub) for ALL your speakers, including center and surrounds, and have them ALL be matched in quality (best if they're all the same model from the same era/plant).

And 100W RMS per channel (for each/all channels) is a MINIMUM. I'd hope for 200-250 (500 per channel would be Great!)

Scott

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
edit: And YES, go listen to them 1st. Go to electronics stores, audiophile stores, etc. Listening is expected at those places--if they don't like it, don't buy from them 'cuz they must not know what they're doing or what's good and what's not.

[Midzuki]

Actually, I meant one "big box" for each channel,

so you'd have (*ideally*) 6 or 8 "old-fashioned" enclosures in your room:

[julitomg]

jtrinc...those logitech speakers are not what you need, they are computer speakers, with their own amplifier and totally different way of conecting. They may be Ok for gaming or watching video on your computer but they aren´t designed for what you have in mind and you´d be wasting your money (if you also bought the Yamaha receiver or anything similar) Just as an example, I think these are a better choice:
http://insigniaproducts.com/products/home-audio/NS-HT51.html

[Midzuki]

Notwithstanding, if your ears have been incurably-altered by the influence of the
"iPod generation", you may find these ones "more acceptable"

[jtrinc]

Thanks for all the information, guys! Thanks also for the link, julitomg!
I had not even noticed that those speakers were for computers. Now the price makes sense.
It really looks like the budget that I initially had in mind was quite naive. But that's all right. I would rather buy a decent piece of equipment than wasting money on something that I won't like.

Anyway, Cornucopia, you mentioned a 200-250 (500 per channel) receiver. Do you have any recommendations?

As you probably noticed, I have no experience with these things and have never had a home theater, so your feedback is truly appreciated. Thanks again!!!

[julitomg]

The amount of power you need depends upon several factors, one important consideration, for instance is the size (and acoustic qualities) of the room you´re planning to install your system into. For example, the living room of a big house will need more power to "fill" the space, it also depends if there´s heavy carpeting, large, soft furniture (that will absorb more sound), etc...A smaller appartment will probably need less power (but you´ll want to have some "spare" power to avoid distortion, faitfully reach the higher and lower frequencies and so on) the type/size/power handling of the speakers will vary accordingly. For example, let´s say it´s a mid size living room. They could be like these:
http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/fluance-av-htb-5/4505-7868_7-20984105...in;contentBody
Note that it´s a 5.0 (not 5.1)set (no problem with most receivers, you just select "large speaker" option via menu and if you ever think you need/want deeper, stronger bass you can always add an active (self powered) subwoofer later on.
If the system is intended for a small apartment, a bedroom or college dorm, you may want something smaller because of space considerations:
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-NS-SP1800BL-5-1-Channel-Theater-Speaker/dp/B001AVRD62/ref...5039858&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/JVC-SXXSW6000-Channel-Theater-Speaker/dp/B000J34TPK/ref=pd_lpo_k...1W95ZSKE2VZ55Q
Also you might want to consider a "whole" package like these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120140
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882115198
Where the speakers are already "tailored" to the receiver in terms of power handling, impedance, etc...
Read the reviews (both by experts and consumers), you´ll learn a lot and again, go and listen to the equipment (and try several volume settings, listening modes, EQ/DSP modes, etc...)
Good luck

[computeguy]

dude,

I don't want to put anybody down.. but

for 200 - 300 bucks you can't buy sh?t.........

minimum total $$$ should be around 1,000 for anything of decent quality...
your receiver should be aound 400 - 500
cabling another 100
and speaker around 400 (for 5.1)

anything else is garbage......

My system consists of 1) Pioneer Elite VSX-59TXi receiver $ 4,000
2) Velodyne SPL-1200 subwoofer $ 1,300
3) Infinity IL-36C center speaker $ 400
4) Pioneer DV-59AVI dvd player $ 1,000
5) Cerwin Vega 280SE front speakers $ 600
6) Infinity Pro-550's rears & sides $ 600
7) Universal MX-3000 remote $1000
8) Yamaha CD changer $ 200
9) Mitsubishi 65" Rear Projection HD
10) 12 Gauge wiring in wall
11) Pioneer Elite A35R Multichannel/Multi room amp $ 250
12) w/ Pioneer M10x power amp $ 450

NOW THAT SYSTEM WILL BLOW YOUR MIND!!!!!!! I PROMISE

[t0nee1]

I am planning on expending between 200 and 300 bucks. I just want the receiver, the subwoofer and the speakers. I have noticed that I lot of these systems come with a DVD player, but I do not really need another DVD player. Of course, I want a receiver with DTS sound capabilities and, if possible, a USB port. By the way, I do not have any preference brand wise.

IIWY, I wouldn't purchase a HTIB since you don't "really need another DVD player"..Instead purchase a good receiver with decent, affordable speakers, and save your money for a future speaker upgrade..
And remember, beauty is in the ear of the beholder, and you don't really have to spend 10,000 bucks, for it to "Blow your mind"..I promise...Good luck!..

[jtrinc]

Thanks (again) for those links, julitomg!
The two "whole" package” options look like very good options. I still have not listened to those, but they look just like what I was looking for! If you happen to come across another links like those, feel free to share.

computeguy, where do you live? Can I stop by and check out your home theater? Your set up does sound like an awesome home theater. For that kind of cash, it better kick some serious ass. But I think that you are ahead of the game. Bear in mind that this is my first home theater. I think that I should start somewhere cheaper/simpler. But I do appreciate the information. I have actually saved the info on your home theater for future reference...

t0nee1, love the avatar. Anyway, I could not agree more. I wish that I had that kind of money to spend on a home theater.

Thanks again and like I said, if you can think of any other info or if you find a system like the ones that julitomg suggested, please let me know. I am not going to buy it for a few weeks. I am just starting my research.

[redsandvb]

Power specs can be misleading. Different manufacturers can quote their power numbers under different conditions, such as driving a full bandwidth signal (20Hz - 20kHz) to all 5 or 7 channels, or maybe to just 2 channels, or sometimes just a 1kHz tone to 1 channel. The latter makes it easy for them to claim that oh so attractive '100 watts' number, or whatever. Some clearly state how the numbers were measured, some don't.
Another thing to know is that getting just a 3dB boost in volume requires double the power. So while power ratings are important, don't be afraid of something that has 5 or 10 watts, etc less output vs something else.

Like guns1inger said, you probably want a receiver that can not only do video over HDMI, but also process audio. Dolby True HD and dts-HD Master Audio if possible, if not then at least PCM/LPCM. I'm not sure the Yamaha RX-V365 does this, I think the V465 and up do...

If you decide on a 5.1 satellite type speaker package, the Energy Take Classic is one of the better ones but it stretches your budget quite a bit ($399 + you'll still need a receiver). Google the name for a few reviews. It's out of stock at Crutchfield and a bunch of other places but you can see if it interests you, http://www.crutchfield.com/p_732TAKECL/Energy-Take-Classic-5-1.html.

If you can afford to up your budget to get a decent HDMI receiver and some speakers you may be able to fight off the 'upgrade bug' that bites so many people.

BTW, when you get around to buying cables (HDMI, speaker wire, digital audio, etc) www.blujeanscable.com and www.monoprice.com are good places to look.

Good luck

8)

[Cornucopia]

AFA power goes, let me give some anecdotal advice:

In Halifax, I had my HT in the basement, which was fairly open on 1 side and was ~18' x 30', drywalled. I added a few of columns of bookshelves, both to actually hold my library of books but also to help diffuse and dampen the rather "live" sound. I sofa and easy chair and wall-to-wall utility carpet were the only real sound-soakers (besides people).

My setup at the time was this:
Yamaha receiver (??model??)
Full-range bookshelf speakers set up in a Polk-SDA (crosstalk-cancelling) configuration for the L' and R' fronts. Then, Yamaha Center, & Powered Sub (150W, ~80Hz X-over), and Yamaha Satellite speakers for L-side/back, L-behind, R-behind, and R-side/back (they were aimed so as to be off-axis and more diffuse). Judicious and exacting gain matching and EQ. That's 9 speakers total!! Sounded great.

But the AMP had only 100W RMS perchannel (into 8ohms). Now, with the complicated way I had it set up, and with the speakers in ~ parallel, the amp was probably seeing more like 3-4ohms, so this would be an equivalent of 200W each. Actually quite taxing for the amp!
It STILL wasn't enough for that real gut-wrenching sound needed on certain action movies, etc. And being a recording engineer, I am very particular about NOT letting the sound get so loud that it is bad for one's ears. It was clean, full sound (I wouldn't go more for fear of getting DISTORTION or of flipping the breaker on the amp), but I would still like to have been able to make it go all the way to "ELEVEN".

So, If your room is more live than what I described, take away 1/2 the power. If it's smaller than those dimensions, take away 1/3. But if you've got standard 8ohm speaker setup, double it again, and if you like it louder than ~85-90 dB spl, double or triple it again.

That's why I mentioned 200-250W per channel as a good benchmark. If I had my way, I'd get ClassA 1000W per channel to 7.1/9.1 or better, using Genelecs or similar studio speakers (all around). But that's talking $$$$.

Scott

[jtrinc]

redsandvb,
Thanks for the link! The Yamaha RX-V465 looks awesome. It is $329.99 on that site. Do you know any other receivers similar to that one? Or at least one that can also process audio over HDMI?

[redsandvb]

redsandvb,
Thanks for the link! The Yamaha RX-V465 looks awesome. It is $329.99 on that site. Do you know any other receivers similar to that one? Or at least one that can also process audio over HDMI?

Around that price range are the Onkyo TX-SR507 and Denon AVR-1610. They have Audyssey Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ, which I hear are great for listening at lower volumes. They also have binding posts vs spring clips, on the Yamaha, for speaker wire connections. Don't be too worried about the power ratings unless you have a really huge room and will listen at extremely loud volumes.

The price for the Onkyo may fluctuate a bit at Amazon (could get a good deal), http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B001VEI290/ref=ord_cart_shr?_encoding=UT...X0DER&v=glance . They're an authorized dealer, and be sure you see 'Ships from and sold by Amazon.com'. Sometimes 6ave.com has good sales, too, among other places.

8)

[DarrellS]

I'm glad I bought my speakers 15 years ago. I'd hate to have to replace them today with what I've seen offered. My speakers aren't high dollar but they've served me well.

My 12" Subwoofer, 5 1/2" x 2 Center channel and 2 3 1/2" front surrounds are Optimus (Radioshack). I believe I paid $350 to $400 for them. The 8" Sony bookshelf speakers (14"x9") were around $40. I gave the 12" Yamahas ($60) to my brother since I couldn't turn the volume up where I lived.

My friend doesn't worry about his neighbors so he cranks his up pretty loud. Sounds like front row at a Rush concert with his 4 15" Altec Lansing Studio Monitors, two satellite speakers on the wall and an Onkyo receiver and Denon amp to push them inside his doublewide trailer. His stuff is way out of my price range.

If I had to replace my speakers today, I'd probably get these Sony's from BestBuy...

8" Bookshelf Speakers
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8289229&type=product&id=1172277278011
$93.98 x 2

Dual 5-1/4" 2-Way Center-Channel Speaker
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8289121&type=product&id=1172277277875
$99.99

5-1/4" 2-Way Bookshelf Speakers
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8289167&type=product&id=1172277277943
$51.98

10" 100-Watt Powered Subwoofer
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8417527&type=product&id=1213047115936
Not great but for $99.99

$439.92 + tax

I like the speakers that Midzuki showed but if you could find anyone who made speakers like that anymore, they probably cost you $500 a piece. Everything seems to be made out of plastic nowadays.

[jtrinc]

Thanks again for all the info, guys. Even though they are way more expensive that I expected, hopefully I'll be able to purchase some of the receivers that redsandvb suggested.

[redsandvb]

If you don't mind buying factory reconditioned/refurbished stuff, www.accessories4less.com has good prices too. Maybe you can get an older upgraded model at a good price (Onkyo 606, for example). They're an authorized dealer, the stuff comes w/ manufacturer warranty. Check the descriptions to see or ask them if all accessories (remote, manual, calibration mic, etc) are included.

[jagabo]

Fry's often has Polk R300 floor standing speakers for sale. About $90 a pair. These have pretty good imaging and uncolored sound. Lacking in low bass though -- you'll want a sub.

[jtrinc]

I never thought about buying anything reconditioned/refurbished. That's a great idea. By the way, what do you think of this sale?

http://www.circuitcity.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4632911&sku...CCEM013-_-HDTV

[jagabo]

Sounds like a good deal. The same components (Yamaha receiver and Klipsch HD 500 speakers) costs over $1000 at Amazon. I don't know how the Klipsch speakers sound though. Note you're getting a 7.1 receiver and 5.1 speakers. I find 7.1 systems too much of a bother to set up for the minor benefit over 5.1.

[redsandvb]

I never thought about buying anything reconditioned/refurbished. That's a great idea. By the way, what do you think of this sale?

http://www.circuitcity.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4632911&sku...CCEM013-_-HDTV

Not bad receiver, the Klipsch speakers are a bit different than 'normal' speakers. They're a horn type design, guess it's called horn-loaded. Found a wiki article about them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klipsch and a review of the speakers in the package http://www.hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/klipsch_hd_theater_500_speaker_system/index.html
I haven't really heard them before, can't tell you how they sound. I don't think you'd be disappointed if you end up with them. BTW, here's a very similar package (step down in receiver and speakers, added an ipod dock) http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=CES465-11SL-T300&location=homespecial for a bit less. If there's a store near you, maybe checkout something by Klipsch to see if you like their sound.

If you don't like 'em and still want a smaller satellite type package, the Energy's are probably some of the best you can find at $400...if you can find them in stock.
A few reviews:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/satellite/energy-take-classic-review
http://www.hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/608energy/
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2821/energy-take-classic-home-theater-system.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/energy-take-classic/4505-7868_7-33310963.html

www.thespeakercompany.com also has some kind of sale going on 'till 6/30, http://www.thespeakercompany.com/Home-Theater-C7.aspx
There's even a pretty cheap bookshelf size speaker package (~$450), http://www.thespeakercompany.com/TSBLT-HT-P155C33.aspx
Don't be afraid of the generic company name. The parent company is D&M Holdings, owners of Denon, Marantz, Snell, BostonAcoustics, etc.

[DarrellS]

I saw something on the news a couple of days ago that said to be very leary of buying anything from Circuit City Online. I didn't watch it all. Was just channel surfing when I heard it.

I have a couple of friends who buy their repair parts from here. They sell speaker sets and also speaker kits if you want to build your own.

http://www.parts-express.com/home.cfm

[jtrinc]

DarrellS,
I heard the same thing about Circuit City online. The home theater that I posted earlier was more expensive that I can afford right now, but the reason why I was turned off by it was the fact that it was Circuit City.

jagabo, I never thought about it before, but I can see why it would be a pain to set up the 7.1 home theater. I'll keep that in mind.

Redsandvb, thanks again for all the info!

[jagabo]

I see Fry's has a Polk Audio 5.1 speaker system this weekend for $200. You'll need a receiver too. They also have a Philips 5.1 theater system (includes DVD player and receiver) for $180. And an Onkyo 7.1 system for $494. If there's a Fry's near you it would be definitely worth checking them out.

[redsandvb]

Redsandvb, thanks again for all the info!

Found a bit more. Vanns has the Energy Take Speakers minus the normal sub, but with a couple other options for a sub. They're slightly older (and uglier) model Energy subs but with about the same performance or better, and cheaper even. http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/542890837/energy-take-5-0
The bundle with the Take satellites + S8.3 sub is just $300. That plus one of the receivers mentioned would be a nice start, if it's in your budget of course (don't forget about refurbished from accessories4less).