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  1. Man of Steel freebird73717's Avatar
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    Okay this question is mainly for the USA members as the majority of our OTA tv signals have gone digital today.

    Did your reception improve? I went from getting 15 channels pre-transition to 31 channels post-transition. Signal strength has improved on a few stations and according to the websites of my other local stations their signal strength should improve as well over the next few months (moving antennas higher and changing frequencies).

    So how has the transition been for you?
    Donadagohvi (Cherokee for "Until we meet again")
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  2. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Today by 11:59pm, all analog NTSC stations will be shut down. Also by tomorrow morning many digital stations will change frequencies (channel number) and/or power. Some digital stations will move to upper VHF (ch 7-13). You should rescan your ATSC digital tuner during the day for any late arrivals.

    You shouldn't see any difference on cable or satellite providers other than internal issues. For cable, analog versions of the locals will be available until 2012 with a few exceptions. The digital versions of the locals should also be available in ClearQAM without a cable box. This has been the case for some time.
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  3. Member
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    I get one station with the converter box. I never got any analog either. Don't care much. I only watch the news and get most of that on the internet streamed a few hours later. I have never seen Dancing with the Stars, American Idol, CSI anything or even Boston Legal or the West Wing. Am I missing anything? I think not!

    I do like to watch movies on my plasma and listen to the surround sound system with the "big" speakers.
    Depends what the definition of the word inhale is.
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  4. Man of Steel freebird73717's Avatar
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    When July 25th gets here I am cancelling my satellite service. 90% of what I watch is on network OTA anyway. Between OTA, and netflix (streaming and dvds) I have plenty to watch.

    Yeah I'm planing on rescanning tomorrow.
    Donadagohvi (Cherokee for "Until we meet again")
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  5. Member
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    Four out of 9 of my locals didn't shut down analog until 11:59 PM. The others shut down analog weeks or months ago.

    This is the first time one of them is transmitting a digital signal. Its new transmitter is much closer, so it's the first time I have had a clear picture. I found one low power station on Thursday night that just started broadcasting a digital signal, but I can only get it in one room, and even then it's barely watchable.

    For practical purposes, I have lost all the out-of-market stations I used to get. I can still watch 4 of them, but only in one room that faces the right direction. The other four are too weak as digital stations.

    I thought it was only right to watch the first station in town shut down at 11:59. They played their old sign-off tape, then ran a slide show of their history, back to the first year, ending with their original test-pattern, before switching to night-light PSAs. They've always been a class act.
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  6. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    I have been getting 27 channels for several months off my OTA HDTV antenna. My alternative is a free (Paid by part of the subdivision fees) cable hookup with a SD signal. I don't watch TV that much, but my HDHomeRun LAN tuner works great for HDTV OTA. SD looks terrible on my 22" LCD or my projector. Our cable company does host HBO and a couple of other premium channels, but they down convert it (Very badly with noise) to SD, so I don't watch it.

    All my local stations transmit HDTV from the same mountain, so the signal is plenty strong and I don't need to change the antenna orientation for the different stations. They shut off SD broadcasts some time ago.
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  7. Member edDV's Avatar
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    The local ABC affiliate in Sacramento signed off analog 10 and temp digital 61 at 11:59pm. They needed 15 minutes to switch in a brand new digital 10 transmitter. During that 15 minutes only cable viewers got the programming.
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  8. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity...

    With the DVB Terrestrial transmissions, you don't have a boost in broadcasting, you simply can receive a channel "perfect" with less signal than the one is needed for analogue reception. Of course, under a point, the signal is not enough and you have no picture at all. With analogue, you may have "something"

    With ATSC that behaviour is alike, or you also have a signal boost too?
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  9. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    It seems most of the local transmitters upped their power for the digital output. One downside is when they switched to the higher frequency bands some former customers 'In the shadows', that don't have a direct line on sight, may not get a signal anymore. UHF doesn't bounce around well. Of course if they do get a signal, it should be ghost and static free.

    The local transmitters are a 1000' or so feet above me and at about 30 miles, but I can see the mountain they're on.
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  10. Man of Steel freebird73717's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SatStorm
    With the DVB Terrestrial transmissions, you don't have a boost in broadcasting, you simply can receive a channel "perfect" with less signal than the one is needed for analogue reception. Of course, under a point, the signal is not enough and you have no picture at all. With analogue, you may have "something"

    With ATSC that behaviour is alike, or you also have a signal boost too?
    Okay I'm not an expert so if I misinform you hopefully someone will correct me but this is how things have gone for me. Before the digital transition I barely got any reception. Some stations came in "snowy" but most didn't come in at all. After the transition I get almost all the available stations in my area. My signal strength isn't great. Around 19% strength. But the picture comes in perfect. So I get either a great picture or none at all (which is what I expected).

    I have a brother that lives in the bottom of a valley. He could get analog transitions just fine but he gets hardly no digital reception. Line of sight issues from living in that valley I guess.
    Donadagohvi (Cherokee for "Until we meet again")
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  11. Member
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    ATSC is supposed to be an all-or-nothing situation, but if the signal strength is marginal, audio drops out and the picture breaks up into blocks whenever the signal fluctuates a bit due to minor atmospheric disturbances.

    In my region, several stations have or will be going from UHF back to a VHF frequency post transition, One that has already done this cut its transmitter power way back, from 1000 kW to 9.3 kW, and now is difficult to tune. I recieved a very good digital signal for that one when they used a UHF frequency and a powerful transmitter.

    My pre-transition list:
    analog: 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 19, 22, 40, and 53
    digital: 2, 4, 8, 11, 13, 16, 22, 27, 40, and 53

    My post-transition list:
    digital: 2, 4, 11, 13, 16, 19, 22, 40, and 53
    8, 9, and 70 are available in 1 room (I use indoor antennas)
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  12. Member
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    My experiences with the new changeover had one strange aspect. Thru the benefit of the Federal converter box program I bought 1 RCA and 1 Digital stream box. Locally the changeover occurred as was previously scheduled so I have been on the digital diet for months now. Anyway, at the time of the changeover I found that my ABC network station located 70 miles away was most of the time too far away to reach with a signal. So, I moved my antenna to the location of the translation station that was in my local town and what I was getting there was the Digital Stream moving logo indicating that I had a weak signal. At first I couldn't figure it out because I had my Digital box connected to another TV and it was off. Evidently, even ABC took advantage of the cheap boxes and was using one at the translation tower to change their digital signal to analog for local transmission. Took them a month to get a sustained analog signal locally.

    The other networks digital signal was strong so their reception was excellent and their local analogs are still running.

    My reception with PBS is now almost nonexistent. They transmit out of Los Angeles have analogs translators most everywhere else and they have shut down most of them.

    Tony
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  13. What I get depends on which direction I point my antenna. About 9, but 5 are Spanish language. lol

    But I have cable too so no changes.
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  14. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Where I am, I could get PBS only, more grain/snow than signal, with indoor rabbit ears. I plan to go to Walmart today, buy a $50 digital antenna, see if I can get anything on ATSC. If not, back it goes.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
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  15. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    For indoors, these work fairly well: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5000836 It works even better if you put it outdoors, even on a window ledge. I just use a full size Yagi antenna, stuffed in my attic with an attached amplifier.

    Most of the indoor antennas are just junk, IMO, and the rabbit ears work as well, or better at times.
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  16. Member
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    The Philips MANT940 is UHF only, but I have heard it is a good choice for people who don't need to tune any VHF frequencies. I wish I could use it too, but I need one with the ability to receive VHF.

    I'm getting reasonably good results with the Terk TV-4 and a GE Optima passive antenna because I am close to most of the transmitters for my locals. I have a very cheap dipole + loop antenna too, that I need to replace. It's just too flimsy.
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  17. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet

    My pre-transition list:
    analog: 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 19, 22, 40, and 53
    digital: 2, 4, 8, 11, 13, 16, 22, 27, 40, and 53

    My post-transition list:
    digital: 2, 4, 11, 13, 16, 19, 22, 40, and 53
    8, 9, and 70 are available in 1 room (I use indoor antennas)

    DTV (actual RF) channels are now squeezed into 7-13 VHF and 14-51 UHF with some gaps. In some markets VHF Ch2-6 are still in service. Rural analog translators can still be used until 2012.

    The confusing thing is many DTVs and converter boxes are reporting virtual channel numbers that relate to the former analog channel number.
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  18. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cal_tony
    My experiences with the new changeover had one strange aspect. Thru the benefit of the Federal converter box program I bought 1 RCA and 1 Digital stream box. Locally the changeover occurred as was previously scheduled so I have been on the digital diet for months now. Anyway, at the time of the changeover I found that my ABC network station located 70 miles away was most of the time too far away to reach with a signal. So, I moved my antenna to the location of the translation station that was in my local town and what I was getting there was the Digital Stream moving logo indicating that I had a weak signal. At first I couldn't figure it out because I had my Digital box connected to another TV and it was off. Evidently, even ABC took advantage of the cheap boxes and was using one at the translation tower to change their digital signal to analog for local transmission. Took them a month to get a sustained analog signal locally.

    The other networks digital signal was strong so their reception was excellent and their local analogs are still running.

    My reception with PBS is now almost nonexistent. They transmit out of Los Angeles have analogs translators most everywhere else and they have shut down most of them.

    Tony
    The main issue with rural analog translators is they need to be modified to receive the DT broadcast from the home station. The government has a grant fund for doing this (especially for PBS) but someone local has to organize and do the work.
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  19. Member lacywest's Avatar
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    Interesting
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  20. Member
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    Originally Posted by edDV
    Originally Posted by usually_quiet

    My pre-transition list:
    analog: 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 16, 19, 22, 40, and 53
    digital: 2, 4, 8, 11, 13, 16, 22, 27, 40, and 53

    My post-transition list:
    digital: 2, 4, 11, 13, 16, 19, 22, 40, and 53
    8, 9, and 70 are available in 1 room (I use indoor antennas)

    DTV (actual RF) channels are now squeezed into 7-13 VHF and 14-51 UHF with some gaps. In some markets VHF Ch2-6 are still in service. Rural analog translators can still be used until 2012.

    The confusing thing is many DTVs and converter boxes are reporting virtual channel numbers that relate to the former analog channel number.
    The list of digital channels I gave are all virtual. However, virtual channels 8, and 9 are back to using their old analog frequencies. Virtual channel 19 is now using the same frequency as analog channel 11, and virtual channel 13 will go back to using its old VHF frequency when their new transmitter is completed later this summer. So there are still several digital channels in the area that are using the VHF portion of the spectrum.

    I checked and got the same information from both tvfool.com and antennaweb.org. I found it surprising that these broadcasters would choose to do this. I thought at first it was a mistake in the listings.
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  21. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Upper VHF (ch 7-13) does better in rural and hilly areas. The signal propagates further on less power and curves somewhat around and over hills. UHF is more line of sight and requires more transmitter power the higher the channel number for the same propagation.

    Lower VHF (Ch 2-6) performed poorly for digital except over flat water. Places like Miami stayed with lower VHF to reach the coastal islands and The Bahamas.
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  22. Member
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    Originally Posted by edDV
    Upper VHF (ch 7-13) does better in rural and hilly areas. The signal propagates further on less power and curves somewhat around and over hills. UHF is more line of sight and requires more transmitter power the higher the channel number for the same propagation.
    Hilly and rural would describe much of this region, but these digital VHF stations are all going to need to install new transmitters again in a few years if the government goes ahead with its plans to have TV occupy only the UHF portion of the spectrum. Channels 8 and 9 lost a lot of coverage as it is. Their transmitters are not powerful enough to cover the same area as their analog signal did.
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  23. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by usually_quiet
    Originally Posted by edDV
    Upper VHF (ch 7-13) does better in rural and hilly areas. The signal propagates further on less power and curves somewhat around and over hills. UHF is more line of sight and requires more transmitter power the higher the channel number for the same propagation.
    Hilly and rural would describe much of this region, but these digital VHF stations are all going to need to install new transmitters again in a few years if the government goes ahead with its plans to have TV occupy only the UHF portion of the spectrum. Channels 8 and 9 lost a lot of coverage as it is. Their transmitters are not powerful enough to cover the same area as there analog signal did.
    I don't think upper VHF will be blocked any time soon. They have all the stations crammed into about half the space they used to occupy. They put the stations closer together in frequency and also closer physically on the same channels. There is a study going on whether rural stations should be allowed more power where there is little co-channel interference. Most local stations here lost about 10% of their coverage radius with the switch to digital. I happen to be in that lost 10% area.

    If any more TV channels are lost, the telcos would rather have the upper UHF frequencies because they use smaller antennas for mobile wireless devices.
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  24. Member
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    Originally Posted by redwudz
    I have been getting 27 channels for several months off my OTA HDTV antenna. My alternative is a free (Paid by part of the subdivision fees) cable hookup with a SD signal. I don't watch TV that much, but my HDHomeRun LAN tuner works great for HDTV OTA. SD looks terrible on my 22" LCD or my projector. Our cable company does host HBO and a couple of other premium channels, but they down convert it (Very badly with noise) to SD, so I don't watch it.

    All my local stations transmit HDTV from the same mountain, so the signal is plenty strong and I don't need to change the antenna orientation for the different stations. They shut off SD broadcasts some time ago.
    I was getting 27 channels a year ago when I first scanned my Hauppauge HVR1800 with WinTV and a Philips indoor amplified HDTV antenna.

    A couple of months ago, I reinstalled Windows on a new drive and when I rescanned the channels, all I could get was seven OTA channels. I just rescanned again and now I can only get six OTA channels.

    I live in the Northwest Valley. Not sure what the deal is. Here is my OTA lineup...

    KTVK-HD
    ABC15HD
    GoAZTV
    KUTP-DT
    KUTP-DT(1)
    KASW
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  25. Member edDV's Avatar
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    If you were downtown Phoenix you would have little trouble pointing an indoor antenna 175 degrees. Major station antennas seem grouped. Run your address through www.tvfool.com to get a similar plot.

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  26. so far my cable company has not done anything (time warner), all analog channels are coming through fine just like they were beforehand (no cable box with coax into a regular device that does not have a digital tuner). I suppose they might change this soon or as one poster mentioned by 2012
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  27. Member
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    It says that I should be able to pick up 17 channels with an indoor antenna. It seems to me that they lowered their signal strength.



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  28. Member edDV's Avatar
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    23 miles may need a more directional indoor antenna. Also, PBS, NBC and Fox now need a VHF antenna. The temp digital channels for all three were UHF.
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  29. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mazinz
    so far my cable company has not done anything (time warner), all analog channels are coming through fine just like they were beforehand (no cable box with coax into a regular device that does not have a digital tuner). I suppose they might change this soon or as one poster mentioned by 2012
    Nothing was supposed to change on cable. The analog locals will be there until 2012. Expect the analog cable channels to shrink in number before then. Each analog channel dropped can be used for 8-12 digital SD subchannels or 2-3 digital HD subchannels.
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    The antenna that I have is the PHILIPS US2-MANT510. It's an Indoor Amplified UHF/ VHF/ FM Antenna rated for 25 miles. I was getting almost 30 channels with this same antenna a year ago.
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