AutoGK question: Can I "Force IVTC" on "Hard-encoded NTSC&am

[BozQ]

I have a DVD that's very pooly authored locally.

It is an Asian film, Ip Man to be exact. I've been trying to rip it from DVD to AVI using AutoGK. But try as it might, it is unable to detect the source as either pure film or hybrid. I've tried using the CTRL+F9 option "Force Normal IVTC when source is detected as Hybrid", however the auto analysis has concluded that the DVD has been authored as "Hard-encoded NTSC".

Is there a way to force IVTC on such sources and result in a 23.976fps AVI?
Even if it will not turn out well, I'd like to see with my own eyes to see if it's acceptable before resigning to ripping it to 29.97fps AVI.

Thanks for any assistance.

EDIT: I think it's worth noting that I was able to create a clean 23.976 AVC-mp4 with RipBot264. However, I am unable to use that format for my portable DVD player. So I'd still want to have a AVI version of this film from the same source.

[manono]

Is there a way to force IVTC on such sources and result in a 23.976fps AVI?

Nope, it has to be analyzed as a hybrid first. However, if it's really hard telecined it should IVTC it automatically, and for true hard telecined sources, in my experience it always does. This leads me to suspect it isn't what you think it is and it can't be cleanly IVTC'd back to 23.976fps. Can you please post the AutoGK log and a small 10 second piece of the source - a piece showing movement. Open a VOB in DGIndex and use the [ and ] buttons to isolate a small section and then upload it to a 3rd party file hosting site - one such as MediaFire.

[BozQ]

Hi manono. Thanks for your assisstance.
I only have the log for a preview and a log for an aborted main rip.

Preview log

[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] AutoGK 2.55
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] OS: Windows Vista (6.0.6001).2
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Job started.
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Processing file: E:\MainMovie\IP_MAN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Processing file: E:\MainMovie\IP_MAN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.VOB
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Processing file: E:\MainMovie\IP_MAN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.VOB
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Processing file: E:\MainMovie\IP_MAN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.VOB
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Source resolution: 720x480
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Found NTSC source.
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Source aspect ratio: 16:9
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Manual aspect ratio: 16:9
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Loading custom fps file.
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Output will contain 151973 frames
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Forcing ITU resize method.
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Picking up autocrop parameters.
[12/6/2009 9:22:43 PM] Job finished. Total time: 0 seconds

And the actual rip, but aborted halfway because it's not detected as Hybrid or Film.
================================================== ==
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] AutoGK 2.55
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] OS: Windows Vista (6.0.6001).2
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Job started.
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Input file: E:\MainMovie\IP_MAN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Output file: C:\Users\Benny Ong\Desktop\IP_MAN.avi
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Output codec: XviD
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Audio 1: Chinese AC3 2ch
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Subtitles 1: English wide
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Format: AVI
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Target quality: 66%
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Custom resolution settings: maximum width of 640 pixels
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Audio 1 settings: VBR MP3 with average bitrate: 128Kbps
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Started encoding.
[12/6/2009 10:09:38 PM] Demuxing and indexing.
[12/6/2009 10:11:37 PM] Processing file: E:\MainMovie\IP_MAN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.VOB
[12/6/2009 10:11:37 PM] Processing file: E:\MainMovie\IP_MAN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.VOB
[12/6/2009 10:11:37 PM] Processing file: E:\MainMovie\IP_MAN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.VOB
[12/6/2009 10:11:37 PM] Processing file: E:\MainMovie\IP_MAN\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.VOB
[12/6/2009 10:11:37 PM] Source resolution: 720x480
[12/6/2009 10:11:37 PM] Found NTSC source.
[12/6/2009 10:11:37 PM] Source aspect ratio: 16:9
[12/6/2009 10:11:37 PM] Manual aspect ratio: 16:9
[12/6/2009 10:11:37 PM] Analyzing source.
[12/6/2009 10:16:56 PM] Source is considered to be interlaced.
[12/6/2009 10:16:56 PM] Output will contain 189967 frames
[12/6/2009 10:16:56 PM] Decoding audio.
[12/6/2009 10:18:56 PM] Normalizing audio.
[12/6/2009 10:20:35 PM] Encoding audio.
[12/6/2009 10:33:38 PM] Preparing subtitles.


Here is the demuxed m2v file from the actual source. Let me know if you cannot download it.
http://cid-6f7c3afb02ee1863.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public%20Files?uc=1&nl=1

[jman98]

BozQ - Is this DVD an import from Hong Kong? The reason I am asking is that I have been to Singapore twice and bought locally made DVDs and VCDs while in Singapore and everything I have bought was in PAL format.

I've seen a lot of crappy decisions made by Hong Kong DVD authoring shops. One of the most infamous, to me at least, was the film "After This Our Exile". I bought (through the internet) the special 2 disc version that was slightly longer and was spread onto 2 discs for "maximum quality" (or some similar words). I was very disappointed with what I got. The video was interlaced and the DTS audio was half bit rate, not full bit rate, even though about 40% of each dual layer disc was completely unused. Hong Kong is notorious for unnecessary PAL to NTSC conversions and you may actually be dealing with that on this movie.

[jman98]

I suppose I should explain what I mean by "unnecessary PAL to NTSC conversions". manono probably already knows about this. What I mean is that in Hong Kong they will start with 24 fps sources, convert those to PAL resolution and 25 fps and then convert that (!!!) to NTSC resolution and bit rates. I'm not an expert on this kind of thing, but I think I remember others have said that this can't ever really be fixed in terms of getting you back to something resembling the 24 fps source.

Not all DVDs in Hong Kong are made as I described, but I know for a fact that some are done that way.

[jagabo]

That video uses simple frame repeats (1,2,3,4,4,5,6,7,8,8...) to convert 23.976 fps to 29.97 fps. In addition, the fields are stored out of phase so that four out of every five frames appear interlaced. A simple AviSynth script can restore this to 23.976 progressive frames:

TFM()
TDecimate()

xvid.avi

[BozQ]

jman98

Thanks for your posts. I am familiar how all the video system works. I know about PAL. I know about NTSC. And I know about "Film-NTSC" (23.976fps)

As for this particular DVD, it's not an import from Hong Kong. HK DVDs are mostly very good quality. But most of this apply to Hollywood movies. (Eg. films from 20th Century Fox, Disney, etc.)

This is an Asian film, and this particular DVD was authored here in Singapore itself. The video is blotched encoded with NTSC, and the audio is in miserable Dolby Surround 2.0

Ip Man is most definitely shot in film. And this DVD is totally unacceptable at full price. But I have no idea where to lodge a complain to. =\

[BozQ]

That video uses simple frame repeats (1,2,3,4,4,5,6,7,8,8...) to convert 23.976 fps to 29.97 fps. In addition, the fields are stored out of phase so that four out of every five frames appear interlaced. A simple AviSynth script can restore this to 23.976 progressive frames:

TFM()
TDecimate()

xvid.avi

Hey! This is it! This was what I used in RipBot264 to restore the video. There was a decimate fuction. Is there a way to do it in AutoGK?

[manono]

Is there a way to do it in AutoGK?

I don't know how to get the sample but, based on what jagabo said about it, the answer's no. Gordian Knot, yes, creating the AviSynth script and encoding manually, yes. But with AutoGK, no. When I said it probably couldn't be IVTC'd cleanly, I was thinking it might be field-blended, and forgot about this screwy and rare method of telecining a movie.

AutoGK's analyze function looks for hard telecine - the telltale 3 progressive frames and 2 interlaced frames in every 5 frame sequence. Since that's not what you have, all it knows how to do is deinterlace it.

[BozQ]

Aww shucks. Oh boy...I haven't used Gordian Knot for a while.
Thanks everybody for your advice. Very much appreciated.
I think I may be able to get desireable results with HandBrake. I'll give it a try now.

[jman98]

BozQ - I both know about "Ip Man" and have seen it. Good film. However, I'm still a little surprised that it's NTSC as I said that everything I bought in Singapore was PAL.

I don't know about you, but my time is valuable to me. If I have a choice between ripping and encoding to 29.97 fps and getting it done quickly or spending hours/days trying to make 23.97 fps work correctly, I'm going to just do it quickly at 29.97 fps. Based on what manono has said, I'm not real optimistic that Handbrake will do what you want, but maybe you will be lucky.

[BozQ]

jman98 - Very few DVDs sold here are in PAL format actually.
Most of the Hollywood films that are handled by big name studios like 20th Century Fox, Disney and so on are in NTSC-Film format.

Ok, to be fair, I seldom buy Asian films myself, only because I expected rubbish DVDs like this. And Ip Man is one of those finest examples of why I avoided them like a plague.

Still, you are definitely right to mention that time is of the essence. The DVD is badly done anyway, there's not much I can do. After all, content is king.