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  1. Member
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    Hello, eveyone.

    I have WIN XP installed on two disks, C: and D: and I want to clear up these doubts:

    1 - Is it possible have a program installed on C: and run it from D: ?

    2 - To protect the PC must I have AVG Free installed on the two disks?

    3 - Must I have Internet installed on the two disks or can I installed on C: and work it from D: ?

    Thanks for your explanations.

    Farewell.
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  2. First and foremost, this is a bad idea which will almost certainly cause you problems.

    The questions are largely irrelevant and point to why you will have problems, most especially if you do not understand the parameters and limitations of what you are doing.

    Programs can be installed anywhere. HOWEVER, whatever OS you are booting needs to be aware of where the program is installed.

    Some very few programs can run without being normally installed, ie., boot from D:, install program, then boot from C: and run same program. This most often will just not work.

    You do not install or run "Internet". Internet Explorer is a program which is built-in to Windows, therefore it will be present and available through either OS, whichever one you boot.

    I predict less than 6 months before some sort of catastrophic failure occurs. Probably less. What is the reason you are doing this?
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  3. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jomapil
    Hello, eveyone.

    I have WIN XP installed on two disks, C: and D: and I want to clear up these doubts:

    1 - Is it possible have a program installed on C: and run it from D: ?
    Yes and now. If the program installs to a single folder, and does not need to add anything to registry or use local users folders (those in Documents and Settings), then yes. If the software needs to install registry keys, install libraries into the Windows or System32 folders etc. then no. In that case you would have to install the software twice, once in each instance of the OS.

    Originally Posted by Jomapil
    2 - To protect the PC must I have AVG Free installed on the two disks?
    For real protection, yes. If you install it in only one instance of the OS then it is only protecting you when you are using that instance. When you use the other instance you are unprotected.

    Originally Posted by Jomapil
    3 - Must I have Internet installed on the two disks or can I installed on C: and work it from D: ?
    Not sure exactly what you are asking, but here goes. If you have broadband (adsl/cable) then usually the modem makes the connection and there is little the OS has to do other than run the browser. If you have dial up, or your adsl used a bridged connection then you will have to configure both instances of the OS to dial and access the internet. Also, you won't be sharing bookmarks, plugins etc across OS's, so these will have to be set up in each instance. For bookmarks I use Xmarks to back up my bookmarks on-line and to syncronise between machines. You could use it to syncronise between OS instances. Plugins such as Flash etc will have to be installed in both.

    The obvious question, at least to me, is why do this ?
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    Hello, Nelson37.

    Thank you for your explanations.

    And about AVG? Is it sufficient its installation on one of the OS?

    I reached this decision because the games. When I play a game I always searched the respective Saves to do backups from time to time. But there are some games I don't manage to find the saves. At this very moment I'm playing a game that I didn't find their Saves and for that very reason, with 50 % of progress I lost it for three times ( THREE ) and I began another three times from the beginning. So I installled the program on one XP and if happens something bad with the other OS I have ALWAYS the first OS intact.

    Cheers.


    Thank you, also, Guns1inger. You were very explicit.
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  5. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    Answered the question about AVG - you have to put it on both OS instances for it to do any good.

    games generally keep saves in one of two places.

    1. In the folder (or a sub folder thereof) that the game in installed in.

    2. Somewhere under My Documents (or Documents and Settings\{user}

    I install all my games in a folder called (surprise) games, not under Program Files. I backup the user folder under Documents and Settings, and the save game folders of anything that saves in it's own folder, and I don't lose anything.

    What you are planning to do (hopefully this is still only a plan) strikes me as over complicated and fraught with trouble
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  6. What I don't think you understand is that you will NOT, repeat NOT, ALWAYS have that second OS "available". By having the drive on which it is installed available to the first OS, sooner rather than later that first OS is going to write something to the second drive that will screw up the second OS Beyond All Redemption.

    This procedure will do absolutely nothing whatsoever to resolve your game saving problem.

    The way to have a "backup OS" is to install it on a drive, and then REMOVE THAT DRIVE from the system.

    What you should be doing is investigating and resolving the problem with the saved games.

    Guns answered your AVG question, it goes along with the concept that if you want a piece of software running on the chosen, booted OS, that software almost always needs to be installed through that particular OS. Softwares that will run without doing this exist, but are fairly rare. Softwares which require to be run at boot time do not fall into this category.

    This is a bad idea, a waste of time, and a procedure which will make your PC LESS stable, rather than more. Back up, shift gears, and try something else.
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    Why not "dual boot" and have 2 fully functional independent OS's w/ everything installed, that way you can have a "backup" OS if something goes wrong w/ the first OS until you get it sorted out

    I have been "dual booting" for years, it is a feature designed to be used w/ Microsoft OS's, I have never done it w/ (2) of the same OS's, but there is no reason why it should not work

    I am presently "dual booting' XP and Win 7

    The only thing I share between my OS's is "My Documents", then I will occasionally backup "My Documents" to an OB drive

    ocgw

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  8. Sure, lots of folks "dual boot" and have no issues. Some people get shot and live. Not something I would recommend.

    I see far more occassions where dual booting has CAUSED a serious problem than those where it has solved one.
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    Originally Posted by Nelson37
    Sure, lots of folks "dual boot" and have no issues. Some people get shot and live. Not something I would recommend.

    I see far more occassions where dual booting has CAUSED a serious problem than those where it has solved one.
    I disagree, just because someone has a problem while they are "dual booting" doesn't necessarily mean "dual booting" caused the problem

    "dual booting" is a feature that Microsoft designed into the Windows family of OS's, and is nothing to fear imho, as long as they aren't "experimenting" w/ it like the OP suggests

    just my opinion

    ocgw

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  10. Originally Posted by ocgw
    Why not "dual boot" and have 2 fully functional independent OS's w/ everything installed, that way you can have a "backup" OS if something goes wrong w/ the first OS until you get it sorted out

    I have been "dual booting" for years, it is a feature designed to be used w/ Microsoft OS's, I have never done it w/ (2) of the same OS's, but there is no reason why it should not work

    I am presently "dual booting' XP and Win 7

    The only thing I share between my OS's is "My Documents", then I will occasionally backup "My Documents" to an OB drive

    ocgw

    peace
    Not too long ago, he wanted to erase the dual boot option screen at startup.
    Believing yourself to be secure only takes one cracker to dispel your belief.
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  11. 1- No each installation gets initiated by boot loader. In fact your question is not correct. Each OS starts when you pick certain one to start. it could be a drive or folder. Boot loader looks at the path

    2- Yes Each OS needs it's own anti-virus. in these days they run from core of the windows. That goes for firewall or any other program because each OS has their own registry. Unless the program does not need registry entry or as it fires up it will create registry entries.

    3- Yes browser is a part of OS and it looks at registry to find out your internet information.
    in general you need to have one installation of everything for each OS including the drivers and all.
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    Thanks a lot for the help you provided.

    I remained a little confused but ...

    Farewell.
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  13. Originally Posted by Jomapil
    Thanks a lot for the help you provided.

    I remained a little confused but ...

    Farewell.
    There is no need to say farewell. We are slightly confused as to what you wish to accomplish. When you disabled the ability to boot from the other operating system, the other drive is nothing more than a data drive. The primary operating system will function like it always has done. The other operating system becomes invisible and it doesn't matter.
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    But my final objective is : When my principal OS is corrupt, before I reinstall XP and format the disk C: where it was installed, I go to the other OS ( D: ) ( reserve, backup or what you want ) and I copy every files I want ( and particulary Documents and Settings and any Saves ).
    Perhaps some of our friends have appointed another solution for this but I didn't attain.

    Cheers.
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  15. Originally Posted by Jomapil
    But my final objective is : When my principal OS is corrupt, before I reinstall XP and format the disk C: where it was installed, I go to the other OS ( D: ) ( reserve, backup or what you want ) and I copy every files I want ( and particulary Documents and Settings and any Saves ).
    Perhaps some of our friends have appointed another solution for this but I didn't attain.

    Cheers.
    At this point, it wouldn't matter, because like I said, your second drive is nothing more than a data drive. If your operating system is corrupt and you copy your data over, you run the risk of corrupting the data on the second drive. My advice would be to make regular backups and if your primary data is blown away, you will already have your data. There would be no harm in blowing away the primary operating system and starting over. Since the other drive is nothing more than a data drive, there is no need to have an antivirus program on the secondary drive, because the first drive antivirus would scan the secondary drive for infections.

    You could also install programs to the secondary drive, and run them from there but if there is corruption, then your data could also be hosed.

    We are just trying to help you here.
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  16. Always Watching guns1inger's Avatar
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    Look at one of the many drive imaging programs, and use it to make a base image and incremental images of your system. If something goes wrong it is a simple matter to restore the OS and applications.
    Read my blog here.
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  17. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    fyi I think I have a similar setup.

    I had a snaffu happen on my emachine pc and ended up wiping my non os drive and installed the oem copy of xp on it. I then left the original os drive in the pc. It still had the original files on it. I just use the "new" drive for installed programs.

    However recently I was messing with the bios and needed to go back to the original drive that still had the oem xp install on it (the one that came with the pc in the first place). I was pleasantly suprised that it worked just fine. I haven't had any major hardware changes since. Except I added a pci wifi card after that and needed to use a usb wifi adapter to go online while I was getting my "new" drive back working. And fyi I never lost a file.

    I have full access to the second drive. But I don't save anything new to it. I can do a virus I check if I need to becuase it reads as another drive.

    Don't know if this is directly relevant to the original post but it should give some more insight.

    EDIT - oh and by the way both drives are set to cable select but the "new" drive is set as master on the ide cable and the "old" drive is set to slave.
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  18. I Stated that dual boot CAUSED serious problems because I Meant that dual booting had CAUSED serious problems, not merely that serious problems have ocurred on systems that happened to dual boot. Note the plural.

    Corruptions or errors by the boot loader, boot files corrupted by the alternate OS or a program loaded on or by it, files or directories moved or deleted by programs or the user, partition table errors, there's more.

    I can recall at least three posts here from different people who suffered total boot failure related to dual booting, all within the last year. This does not count the ones I personally see in the field. All errors that Would Not Have Ocurred except for the dual-boot setup.

    A reasonably experienced user should avoid most, but not all, of these issues, BUT we are not dealing with that here.

    If you want a backup boot drive, mirror the existing drive on a regular basis, FIRST making sure the drive is in an ideal state, and then REMOVE that backup drive from the system. This will not only Totall Eliminate the possibility of the errors stated above, but also eliminate:

    1. most viruses that infect the actual boot drive will corrupt the other one,
    2. any power-related events that damage the boot will likely corrupt the backup,
    3 age and general wear and tear will be the same on both drives; if one dies, the other is close.
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  19. I concur with what Nelson37 has said and I cannot stress enough the importance of regular backups.
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  20. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nelson37
    I Stated that dual boot CAUSED serious problems because I Meant that dual booting had CAUSED serious problems, not merely that serious problems have ocurred on systems that happened to dual boot. Note the plural.

    Corruptions or errors by the boot loader, boot files corrupted by the alternate OS or a program loaded on or by it, files or directories moved or deleted by programs or the user, partition table errors, there's more.

    I can recall at least three posts here from different people who suffered total boot failure related to dual booting, all within the last year. This does not count the ones I personally see in the field. All errors that Would Not Have Ocurred except for the dual-boot setup.

    A reasonably experienced user should avoid most, but not all, of these issues, BUT we are not dealing with that here.
    A year or two ago, someone here -- I can't recall who -- gave the tech advice that he NEVER defragments a drive, because it is a dangerous and unnecessary thing to do. And that was a total, instant loss of credibility, as far as I'm concerned.

    I don't just dual boot, I quintuple boot, with a Maintenance Partition for each of my two main OSes, and have had this type of setup in operation since 1995. I drive these boxes pretty hard: if there were any prevalent ways to trip over something, I would have tripped over them for sure by now. And I don't think I'm really lucky, like the person in your overstated "getting shot" analogy. But then, I'm not a neophyte computer user, have a fair grasp of what I'm doing, and take the appropriate precautions. There are more than a few other people that I know personally who also do this. I can agree with you that it might not be such a hot idea for the mass of users out there, however.

    It does get to be a lot more work to maintain such a setup, so I would like to transition to other solutions, like a Part PE disc that can access NTFS. But I can't accept the possibility of getting locked out. Those Maintenance Partitions (an old idea, by the way) have saved the day for me a few times.
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  21. Originally Posted by Seeker47
    A year or two ago, someone here -- I can't recall who -- gave the tech advice that he NEVER defragments a drive, because it is a dangerous and unnecessary thing to do. And that was a total, instant loss of credibility, as far as I'm concerned.
    I fielded one the threads similar to the one you are referring to. One member said there was never a need to defragment and I went into a technical description of why fragmentation occurs and why it is necessary within Windows. Other filing systems handle the data writing in different methods so there is less fragmentation, but fragmentation still occurs.
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  22. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    Well this was a good thread for me. I finally am doing a backup. I haven't done one for months.

    Also I should probably do a defrag on both my pcs. I haven't done that in god knows how long......
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    Originally Posted by Nelson37
    I Stated that dual boot CAUSED serious problems because I Meant that dual booting had CAUSED serious problems, not merely that serious problems have ocurred on systems that happened to dual boot. Note the plural.

    Corruptions or errors by the boot loader, boot files corrupted by the alternate OS or a program loaded on or by it, files or directories moved or deleted by programs or the user, partition table errors, there's more.

    I can recall at least three posts here from different people who suffered total boot failure related to dual booting, all within the last year. This does not count the ones I personally see in the field. All errors that Would Not Have Ocurred except for the dual-boot setup.

    A reasonably experienced user should avoid most, but not all, of these issues, BUT we are not dealing with that here.

    If you want a backup boot drive, mirror the existing drive on a regular basis, FIRST making sure the drive is in an ideal state, and then REMOVE that backup drive from the system. This will not only Totall Eliminate the possibility of the errors stated above, but also eliminate:

    1. most viruses that infect the actual boot drive will corrupt the other one,
    2. any power-related events that damage the boot will likely corrupt the backup,
    3 age and general wear and tear will be the same on both drives; if one dies, the other is close.
    Ppl that had boot failure while "dual booting" had boot failure because of "dual booting" because you or them determined it? W/ all do respect that is your opinion

    I still fail to see how "dual booting" w/ good hardware and proper procedures causes boot failure w/o someone doing something they have no business doing, or them just not knowing what the hell they are doing

    It is just computers, not voodoo

    Maybe going on the internet causes viruses lol

    ocgw

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  24. Three posts, this board, last 6 to 9 months, failure of the boot loader, total boot failure, boot loader not needed unless dual booting. Similar with partition table corruption, overwriting files, user error, yep, my opinion, its the only one I need.

    When you can come up with a way to stop people from doing the things that they have no business doing, please let me know. Good hardware and proper procedures will solve almost any PC problem. Good hardware gets old, proper procedures are ignored or need updated.

    OK, a better analogy. Can you run your PC with the side cover off and a coffee cup on the top, sure, but would you recommend it for the average user? I wouldn't. It is an unnecessary and easily avoidable risk.

    If the defrag comment was directed at me, someone was mis-remembering something. I have quite clearly commented I avoid third-party utilities of this type, this was after someone had used one and had a major problem. I strongly prefer standardized tools and methods wherever possible. Defrag is a significant performance and diagnostic tool.

    Surest method to absolutely prevent virus infection is to NOT be connected to the Internet. If the Internet did not exist, we would have a lot less viruses. By providing the mass distribution medium which makes viral advertising cost-effective, the existence of the Internet does indeed cause more viruses to be written.
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    Originally Posted by Nelson37
    Three posts, this board, last 6 to 9 months, failure of the boot loader, total boot failure, boot loader not needed unless dual booting. Similar with partition table corruption, overwriting files, user error, yep, my opinion, its the only one I need.

    When you can come up with a way to stop people from doing the things that they have no business doing, please let me know. Good hardware and proper procedures will solve almost any PC problem. Good hardware gets old, proper procedures are ignored or need updated.

    OK, a better analogy. Can you run your PC with the side cover off and a coffee cup on the top, sure, but would you recommend it for the average user? I wouldn't. It is an unnecessary and easily avoidable risk.

    If the defrag comment was directed at me, someone was mis-remembering something. I have quite clearly commented I avoid third-party utilities of this type, this was after someone had used one and had a major problem. I strongly prefer standardized tools and methods wherever possible. Defrag is a significant performance and diagnostic tool.

    Surest method to absolutely prevent virus infection is to NOT be connected to the Internet. If the Internet did not exist, we would have a lot less viruses. By providing the mass distribution medium which makes viral advertising cost-effective, the existence of the Internet does indeed cause more viruses to be written.
    Nelson37 I don't take you for a dummy by a long shot, but your 2nd attempt @ an analogy to support an invalid supposition fails too I am afraid, there is just no good reason to run your PC w/ the side cover off and a coffee cup on top, there is however a very valid reason to dual boot, the very reason dual booting was designed by Microsoft in the first place, for smooth migration from one OS to the next

    ps. "user error" is not "dual booting" causing problems, it is just user error

    ocgw

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  26. Virtual computing makes dual boot a non-issue.
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    Originally Posted by Dv8ted2
    Virtual computing makes dual boot a non-issue.
    Orly?

    My daddy taught me, "If it is not broken, don't fix it"

    ocgw

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  28. Originally Posted by ocgw
    Originally Posted by Dv8ted2
    Virtual computing makes dual boot a non-issue.
    Orly?

    My daddy taught me, "If it is not broken, don't fix it"

    ocgw

    peace
    There is nothing to fix. With virtual computers, you could run up to four different operating systems at one time.
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    Originally Posted by ocgw
    there is however a very valid reason to dual boot, the very reason dual booting was designed by Microsoft in the first place, for smooth migration from one OS to the next
    That is not the main virtue I would cite; there are several others. I don't get everything I'm looking for out of one OS, and with many of the SFF boxes it was not possible or practical to have more than one HDD installed until certain models (like the "P" series from Shuttle) that started to come on the market around two years ago.

    Originally Posted by Dv8ted2
    Virtual computing makes dual boot a non-issue.
    With virtual computers, you could run up to four different operating systems at one time.
    Provided you have a fast cpu and plenty of Ram. Even then -- depending on what you are emulating inside of what -- there can be key drivers and other important things that don't cross over. This is something I definitely intend to try, though I don't know if it can be a complete solution.
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    Originally Posted by Dv8ted2
    Originally Posted by ocgw
    Originally Posted by Dv8ted2
    Virtual computing makes dual boot a non-issue.
    Orly?

    My daddy taught me, "If it is not broken, don't fix it"

    ocgw

    peace
    There is nothing to fix. With virtual computers, you could run up to four different operating systems at one time.
    What I am saying is if I am already dual booting and have not had any problems why would I start running virtual machines?

    For someone dual booting w/o probs switchin' to VM would be fixing a non-existant problem

    -doesn't exactly meet the criteria for a "non issue"

    ps. I wonder if a guy that can't get something as simple as running 2 completely seperate OS's right, is going to have better "luck" running virtual OS's from within another OS??

    Sounds like trouble for someone too "green" to get dual booting right

    ocgw

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