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  1. Member
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    I am thinking of buying a (low budget) camcorder that takes a external mic input
    I want to record video + use a lapel or shotgun mic to shoot video in all sorts of please, both inside and outside

    Someone suggested to me: how about recording audio separately
    Is that a bad idea?? What could I use to record audio externally?

    Or is the whole concept a bad idea?
    Would I have any problems synching audio and video?

    Thanks


    OM
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  2. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OM2
    I am thinking of buying a (low budget) camcorder that takes a external mic input
    I want to record video + use a lapel or shotgun mic to shoot video in all sorts of please, both inside and outside

    Someone suggested to me: how about recording audio separately
    Is that a bad idea?? What could I use to record audio externally?

    Or is the whole concept a bad idea?
    Would I have any problems synching audio and video?

    Thanks


    OM
    Why don't you stick to one thread? Separate audio will have lip sync issues. The sound won't match the video unless you spend a lot on software and labor to resync the audio. I can think of few things more tedious. Painting roof trim is not as bad but also tedious.

    You can do this now. Just record video and audio separately and try to fix it.
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  3. BuskerAlley.com zoobie's Avatar
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    short clips are ok...I recorded on a little microcassette and ended up cutting wav's in an editor to sync...but, like ed said, it's probably just a heck of a lot easier buying a cam with external mic...like the low budget canon hv20 refurb for $400 that shoots HDV

    after my extended warranty runs out on my HC5, I may switch to the HV20/30/40 meself...assuming I can come up with new subject matter...which is probably a major reason many just give up...they haven't thought it thru and don't know what to shoot...so they put their purchased equipment back on the market
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  4. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Dual-system has many merits, but SYNCRONISM is not one of them.

    Unless you have the right equipment and are well versed in the correct methods to maintain it, you will (maybe quite easily) LOSE sync in a dual-system.

    There are real good reasons that a clapboard, 2-pop, genlock, and timecode are used...and it sounds like this is an afterthought for you, so I would STRONGLY recommend against dual system. External mic, YES, dual-system NO.

    Scott
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  5. Originally Posted by edDV
    Why don't you stick to one thread?
    I second that!

    OM2, what is your total budget? What are you looking for in a camcorder, listed in numberical order. Number one being most desired and working down from there. After that, we may be able to provide some good choices to pick from.
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  6. BuskerAlley.com zoobie's Avatar
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    Here's OM2's original thread
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    STICK TO ONE THREAD
    Yes: apologies for that - it's not nice when someone does what I did and opens up several threads discussion the same issue in one way or another
    Promise not to do it again - i think i just got carried away

    ALL the advice i've been given by u guys has been amazing - thanks a lot

    ok: i'll stick to *just* this thread from now on

    what i need to do:

    shoot video, where the subject will be presenting something for sale (think qvc)
    this will be in different locations - occasionally it will be outside
    background sound interference will be a BIG problem!
    where the video will be shot: there's a lot of background noise
    hence, why i was thinking of using an external mic - i was thinking of using lappelle mic

    software i have: virtualdubmod
    i have the adobe suite as well
    BUT: i DON'T intend to do much editing at all
    nearly all the video is meant to be shot, clipped + add a ready made intro and end and thats it

    the end video will be compressed into flv format, so i'll be using something like riva for that

    budget: 0 or at least as a cheap as possible!
    picture quality - not really IMPORTANT because of the end usage
    sound is the main issue
    i was looking to buy a camcorder on ebay
    yes, i know that buying from ebay can be perilous!
    but, i'm an experienced buyer (and a powerseller) and won't be too fussed if i end up with a dud

    and that's about it: i don't think i've missed anything
    let me know what u guys think

    extra question: i can buy a wireless mic system from ebay for very cheap!
    are these any good?? as opposed to investing a lot of money on a professional mic, would a cheapo wireless mic be ok??
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  8. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Yes there are wireless solutions but the cost for a good one is far higher than a quality corded mic.

    Your requirements tell me you need pro sounding audio to have credibility in web commerce. Home video sounding audio will lack credibility. Even though you don't need high definition, the HV20/HV30 camcorders are the cheapest on the new market that have the audio features you want. Used Panasonic GS-500 models are a rare find and lack the overall picture quality of the Canon. Other possible choices are used SD broadcast cams but those will be more expensive to buy and operate.

    So you need to get a camcorder, then choose mic systems. Remember that good mics can be rented in major cities (often in AV and wedding supply stores).

    Pro wired lav mics will offer best sound for least money but you do need a cable connection and transformer.

    There are many demos of wireless mics on You-Tube. The cheapest that I'd recommend is the Azden WMS-Pro but the other higher priced (e.g. Shure, Sennheiser) will sound much better.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAR45nMyTs4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlhDGrw_eA <<< also shows HV20.

    Others here are more expensive but make a good background education.
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=wireless+microphones&aq=f

    Another option is a hand held wired Boom Mic. -- requires separate operator. This is typical for news crews where "talent" is unwired.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-0o6miil9E&feature=related


    PS: Remember that an HDV format camcorder shooting DV format will be recording uncompressed 16bit LPCM stereo audio. Uncompressed source audio is best for equalization in post.
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    i looked at all those videos... very helpful

    given my needs: would u say that my main goal should be to get good sound + any camcorder (mini dv) with external mic will do?

    let me know what u think

    thanks
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  10. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OM2
    i looked at all those videos... very helpful

    given my needs: would u say that my main goal should be to get good sound + any camcorder (mini dv) with external mic will do?

    let me know what u think

    thanks
    Some have external mic input but also typical automatic gain control (AGC) for audio. This causes audio to pump giving that home camcorder sound. When the person stops talking, the gain goes up to emphasize wind and traffic. When the person talks, the audio is first too loud then overcompensates.

    The camcorder manufacturers know that manual audio level is needed for pro audio sound. They were able to withhold this feature to force serious videographers to spend $1000 more for the prosumer tier. Canon was the first to offer this feature under $1K. The Panasonic GS-500 listed for $1,500.
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    Is separate audio recording a bad idea?
    Well... yes and no. There are some advantages like 1. you can get good quality sound for cheaper 2. you can be a very long way from the camera and still have your sound. However, a good wireless system is hard to beat but they do cost more for GOOD one. I sometimes use separate audio recording but it is for simple short projects - not to many clips to manage.
    Here is an example I use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVJ-gHbmDoY
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    @RustyStainless: Why are you digging up very old threads (with issues resolved) to promote your own YouTube clips with that cheesy Sony micro recorder? This thread is over a year old. ENOUGH WITH THE SELF-PROMOTION.
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    Originally Posted by filmboss80 View Post
    @RustyStainless: Why are you digging up very old threads (with issues resolved) to promote your own YouTube clips with that cheesy Sony micro recorder? This thread is over a year old. ENOUGH WITH THE SELF-PROMOTION.
    Sorry filmboss80 but you do not own the forum, if I want to contribute something then I will! Enough with the bullying. You might not have considered this, but people reseach these threads for years - otherwise why would you bother keeping a thread. Under your logic they would remove "old" threads and all the valuable information lost. I started making short videos when I began to get frustrated with forum advice that is only in print. For example, Zoom H4 vs Olympus LS-10, I can read threads all day from the owners of Zooms or Olympus banging on about their experience but sometimes it is more valuable to actually see the product in someone's hands and hear the difference between the two products. Maybe even YOU could make a video that contributes to the forums.
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  14. Member turk690's Avatar
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    I record programs and events and never plug any mic into the camcorder; what they're useful for is the ambient sound, including applause and audience reaction. Main audio comes directly off the insert outputs of the mixing board via attenuators then into any of the inputs of an M-audio Delta 1010LT PCI 8-input soundcard. Pristine audio all the way on several tracks, with an adequate Adobe Audition in control.
    After I have edited and prepped up the audio, I lay it down first on the 1st audio track in Premiere, then sync all the video to it.
    Tedious or not, I have to do it this way anyway. Current AVCHD camcorders record in segments of about 2GB each, which equates to about 15 or 16 minutes of HD video at 17mb/s settings. This is actually a blessing in disguise, because I can independently sync each segment to the correct portion of the prepared audio, so any out-of-sync issues never build up and are completely unnoticeable.
    The video from a Sony HDR-SR12, for example, is faster by anywhere from 2 to 5 frames compared with the audio I prepared earlier, and on a track, after syncing 7 to 8 segments of a two hour program, there indeed are a few frames worth of black spaces between segments after they're moved. But, since I always do 4-camera shoots, there are other tracks to switch to ( themselves synced properly with the main audio) so no hassle.
    Obviously, for programs 10 minutes or less, there is no reason to tear your hair out over whether or not to use external audio. USE external audio! There is a multitude of portable audio field recorders of all specs, prices and persuasions out there, along with mics galore. Don't fret that your fave camcorder didn't have XLR audio inputs or for that matter, gasp!, had NO external mic inputs AT ALL. But maybe that's another issue...
    For the nth time, with the possible exception of certain Intel processors, I don't have/ever owned anything whose name starts with "i".
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