Replacing my HD-DVD player with Upscaling DVD player

[Tacoboy]

I'm currently using a Toshiba HD-A3 HD-DVD and I'm considering replacing it with a Pioneer DV-420V (or 410) player.
I've lost interest in HD-DVDs
Also I would like to be able to Bitstream (with HDMI) from the player to my Onkyo TX-SR606.
(The HD-A3 will only PCM with HDMI)
So right now the Pioneer DV-420V is at the top of my list.
Unless someone can recomend a better up scaling DVD player?

[filmboss80]

Uh, doesn't the Toshiba HD-A3 play standard DVDs, and doesn't it upconvert them? Why would you replace it for the purpose you describe?

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=HD-A3

What are you wanting to bitstream?

[samijubal]

I've got the 410, it doesn't upconvert as good as an HD-DVD player.

I don't even bother using it. It doesn't look any better than my SD JVC player and just letting my Panny plasma do the upconversion. It also uses a cheap Orion drive assembly with a DC brush spindle motor, the JVC uses a far superior direct drive motor.

If you need bitstream, just use the optical out of the Toshiba.

[Tacoboy]

Uh, doesn't the Toshiba HD-A3 play standard DVDs, and doesn't it upconvert them? Why would you replace it for the purpose you describe?

Is this a joke?

I want to be able to use BitStream with HDMI, the HD-A3 will only do PCM with HDMI.
As the HD-A3 design is 2 years old, I'm hopefull a newer DVD player will better upscaling.

[orsetto]

The conventional wisdom is Toshiba HD-DVD players had about the best upscaling you could get short of an Oppo, so I wouldn't be in such a rush to get rid of it. Mfrs do not necessarily improve things over time, often the newer models are worse than the older ones.

I might be having a brain freeze, but I'm puzzled by your "PCM vs Bitstream" dilemma: could you explain why one is preferable to the other for you? My system is strictly stereo, it might help me understand multi-channel hookups more if you could explain briefly. Thanks!

[samijubal]

PCM is 2 channel, bitstream can do multi-channel DD and DTS, 5.1, 6.1, etc.

[Tacoboy]

The conventional wisdom is Toshiba HD-DVD players had about the best upscaling you could get short of an Oppo, so I wouldn't be in such a rush to get rid of it. Mfrs do not necessarily improve things over time, often the newer models are worse than the older ones.

I might be having a brain freeze, but I'm puzzled by your "PCM vs Bitstream" dilemma: could you explain why one is preferable to the other for you? My system is strictly stereo, it might help me understand multi-channel hookups more if you could explain briefly. Thanks!

PCM is were the host unit (Toshiba HD-A3) decodes the sound, Bit stream is were the host unit (HD-A3) sends the audio to some were else (like my Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver) for decoding/processing etc.

[Supreme2k]

If you need bitstream, just use the optical out of the Toshiba.

I second this.

Isn't an optical cable cheaper than a whole new player? Even if you got one of those insanely overpriced cables, it shouldn't be over $50 (probably closer to $10, normally).

[orsetto]

PCM is 2 channel, bitstream can do multi-channel DD and DTS, 5.1, 6.1, etc.

PCM is were the host unit (Toshiba HD-A3) decodes the sound, Bit stream is were the host unit (HD-A3) sends the audio to some were else (like my Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver) for decoding/processing etc.

Thanks to you both for clarifying, I thought that was it but wasn't absolutely sure. Some of my DVD players are so old they have direct analog output of 5.1 . Now that I know what you're talking about, I would agree with the others who suggest running a separate TosLink line to the Onkyo, unless you have an issue forcing you to run the combined A/V thru the single HDMI connection.

[Tacoboy]

PCM is 2 channel, bitstream can do multi-channel DD and DTS, 5.1, 6.1, etc.

I've been told PCM can do up to 5.1 channel with HDMI

[Tacoboy]

If you need bitstream, just use the optical out of the Toshiba.

I second this.

Isn't an optical cable cheaper than a whole new player? Even if you got one of those insanely overpriced cables, it shouldn't be over $50 (probably closer to $10, normally).

I've been informed that optical is limited, it will work with older Dolby 5.1, but not with some of the newer stuff.
But I do plan on trying optical, already have the cable.

[Tacoboy]

OK, luckily Serenity was playing on the Sci-Fi HD channel earlier today and I was able to record it on the Comcast DVR
I also have Serenity on HD DVD.
I just watched the first five minutes of both, they seemed to have the same sound quality.
Next I'll try hooking up the optical cable (HD-A3 to Onkyo 606 receiver),
then compare Serenity again.

[samijubal]

PCM is 2 channel, bitstream can do multi-channel DD and DTS, 5.1, 6.1, etc.

I've been told PCM can do up to 5.1 channel with HDMI

HDMI is capable of 7.1 PCM, SD-DVD isn't. Uncompressed PCM tracks use a lot of space, they are rarely used on SD-DVDs, mostly just concerts.

[samijubal]

If you need bitstream, just use the optical out of the Toshiba.

I second this.

Isn't an optical cable cheaper than a whole new player? Even if you got one of those insanely overpriced cables, it shouldn't be over $50 (probably closer to $10, normally).

I've been informed that optical is limited, it will work with older Dolby 5.1, but not with some of the newer stuff.
But I do plan on trying optical, already have the cable.

I don't know where you get that from. I've never heard any DVD track that optical can't handle DD or DTS. Even the 6.1 tracks all work fine.

[gshelley61]

I'm waiting on the new Oppo BDP-83 universal Blu-ray player to be released. Hundreds of units are in "early adopter" beta testing now and so far it looks like it will be the one to get. Plays everything, including SACD and DVD-Audio discs, and uses sophisticated, videophile-quality Anchor Bay processing for DVD upconversion.

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/

There's a huge early adopters' thread on the AVS Forum about this unit

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1124287

Most recent review of a pre-production unit:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0609/aachapter116.htm

[dannyboy48888]

aah, get a blu-ray player. us tsmuxer to convert your current hd-dvds to a blu-ray container and enjoy , oh yeah 99% of them do upsalcing on dvd's via HDMI so you have cake and eat it too

[Tacoboy]

Tried bitstream (optical) on the HD-A3, did not improve the sound over PCM (HDMI).
So I'll just hold on to the HD-A3 (using PCM/HDMI) or get Toshiba HD-A35 if the price is right.

[samijubal]

Bitstream isn't going to be as good as PCM on any player. PCM is uncompressed, bitstream is compressed.

[Tacoboy]

Bitstream isn't going to be as good as PCM on any player. PCM is uncompressed, bitstream is compressed.

PCM is for HD-DVD?
I'm more trying to get the best sound from SD-DVDs

[samijubal]

Yes, PCM is mostly HD-DVD. There are a few SD-DVDs with PCM, live concerts sometimes use PCM. I've seen a few generic DVDs from way back that had PCM audio, I haven't seen it on anything but concerts in a long time.

I think DVD players can convert the bitstream to PCM but it's not the lossless audio of HD-DVDs.

[Tacoboy]

I guess I'm still thinking of selling off my Toshiba HD-A3 with HD DVD movies
and just try one of the new up-scaling DVD players.
Currently deciding between the Pioneer 410V or 420V
and the new Toshiba SD7200?
The Toshiba is 14-bit video (good price) while the pioneer 410V/420V have good reviews and the front panel I want (lots of buttons).

[samijubal]

I've used a Toshiba HD-DVD player and own a 410, the Toshibas are considerably better than the 410. The Toshiba actually upconverted a little better than my TV, the Pioneer doesn't. You'd be going backwards selling the HD-DVD player and buying a Pioneer.

[Tacoboy]

I've used a Toshiba HD-DVD player and own a 410, the Toshibas are considerably better than the 410. The Toshiba actually upconverted a little better than my TV, the Pioneer doesn't. You'd be going backwards selling the HD-DVD player and buying a Pioneer.

Someone else posted on another forum that their Pioneer 410V was equal to the Toshiba HD-A35 and the HD-A3 is not as good as the HD-A35

[samijubal]

Good luck with that, they're wrong.