Is internal EIDE the same as older ide for harddrives?

[yoda313]

Ok i'm looking to purchase a new pata harddrive. I need it to be compatible with a non sata interface. Are these EIDE drives the same as the older pata drives? Will they interface with an ide cable and a pata 3.5" connection?

I'll post a link to one I'm looking at momentarily. The last internal harddrive I bought was for a sata connection and I haven't bought a ide one in awhile and wanted to make sure its the same.

Thanks.

Here:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8188962&type=product&id=1164155955173

500GB maximum storage capacity
EIDE interface; fits in a 3.5" drive bay
Data transfer rates up to 100MB/sec. (when using Mode 5 Ultra ATA)


What is Ultra ATA? Is that PATA? Also is Ultra ATA fully backwards compatible on older pata type connections?

[jagabo]

Current (E)IDE/PATA drives are compatible with several generations back of the (E)IDE/PATA interface. If your computer is less than 10 years old you'll be fine.

[yoda313]

Current (E)IDE/PATA drives are compatible with several generations back of the (E)IDE/PATA interface. If your computer is less than 10 years old you'll be fine.

@jagabo - ok so eide is still pata than right? That sounds good.

EDIT - fyi this is for the purposes of modding an old xbox 1 that is a pata 3.5" harddrive. I don't want to buy to "new" of a harddrive for it. I want to make sure the connection types are still right.

[Number Six]

If I remember correctly, EIDE drives are capable of faster transfer rates, but they are the same connection and will work at the slower transfer rates also. IDE, EIDE, PATA, and ATAPI are all the same thing, just different flavors. Ultra ATA just means EIDE - faster transfer rates that are capable with the newer Motherboards and Controllers.

[jagabo]

this is for the purposes of modding an old xbox 1 that is a pata 3.5" harddrive.

The connection type won't be a problem. But there could be other issues like power requirements and size limits. I don't know if the BIOS in the xbox will let you use an entire 1.5 TB drive, for instance.

[yoda313]

@numbersix - thanks for the confirmation.

@jagabo - well I've been reading and there are tools for going larger than 137gb. I'm not planning on getting a 1.5tb drive so that won't be an issue. I am just getting a replacement drive larger than the stock 8gb.

I hope the power requirement won't be an issue. Though shouldn't the newer drives be more power efficient than the older generations?

[Number Six]

I think that drives with higher RPM motors pull slightly more current, but it should be negligible - the voltages are the same. Even if there is a size limit built into the xbox, it will ignore anything above it.

[yoda313]

@numbersix - actually I looked up a compatiblity list and saw drives with 7200 rpm listed as ok. This was posted several years ago of course. But if I stick in that range it should probably go well.

I will try to see what the power output of the xbox 1 is just to be on the safe side.

[kimco52]

PATA is a parallel ATA interface. SATA is a serial ATA interface.
PATA drives are IDE drives. Enhanced IDE (EIDE) are capable of faster speeds. Standard ATA transfers at 33/66 MHz. Ultra ATA is 100 MHz or more. Only a few manufacturers, at the time, use 133 MHz. You need a BIOS or add on card to do 100 or 133 or more. You also need to have a different cable with extra conductors to utilize the higher speed. Most drives will come with the cable. You can still use the older cable but your speeds will be the slower one.
Power usage is almost negligible comparatively speaking. Most current drives are 7200 RPM. Older ones were slower. I wouldn't worry about it.

Basically, you buy PATA or SATA drives now. I would not worry about specialty drives from Best Buy. They are only going to stock standard consumer retail drives. You can buy OEM type drives from Frys or parts dealers. Most drives at Fry's are now retail boxed, also.
I think you are fretting/worried more than you need to. The biggest problem you will have is finding one small enough that you need. They are hard to find. Most drives, reasonably priced, are >160GB these days. You can see ads for 750GB or 1TB for $80, PATA or SATA. Why buy a 160GB for $50 (OEM). Doesn't make sense for most uses.

[yoda313]

The biggest problem you will have is finding one small enough that you need.

Yep I'm settling on 160gb. That seems to be the smallest drive space available without going online.

I appreciate the insight on the power usage. I feel more confident now. This should be an interesting project.

[jagabo]

In general, the higher the spindle speed the more power a drive will consume. The more platters a drive has the more it will consume. Other design features also effect power consumption. Power consumption by drives has been dropping but that doesn't mean the fastest, biggest hard drive today consumes less power than the slowest, smallest drive in 2001.

Unlike most computers, game consoles are built with power supplies just large enough to power everything in them. When the xbox came out Microsoft used the oldest, smallest, cheapest, slowest (5400 rpm) hard drive in production at the time. Since you are looking at the small end of current drives you might be ok power wise. Just make sure the drive you get isn't an old one -- one made when 160 GB was the top of the line. A "green" drive from Western Digital might be a good, safe choice. You might even consider a passive IDE/CF adapter and a big CF card!

It doesn't matter which IDE mode the drive supports or what kind of cable you use -- your new drive will not run any faster than the IDE controller in the xbox is cabable of. I believe the xbox is limited to ATA33. Fortunately, all newer drives can drop down to that mode. You don't need an 80 wire cable for that but it won't hurt either.

[Nelson37]

Both power and interface cable requirements should be compatible with most any modern PATA hard drive. The drive RPM is not a factor, the box does not care.

Drive capacity, however, may be a problem. I would try hard to get a 120 or smaller, going bigger is possible but introduces a major complication. Either a loadable BIOS addition or a drive table re-mapping has to occur, this usually causes the drive to be unreadable in a standard PC. Well worth avoiding since you don't really need a big drive, anyway. I still see 80gb at the local BestBuy and CompUSA.

[yoda313]

You might even consider a passive IDE/CF adapter and a big CF card!

Interesting. They make those? So I'd just load the stuff on a memory card and pop in the adapter?

But I think I'm still game on doing the real harddrive. I'll do either a 120gb or 160gb which ever is available if I can. I can't imgaine needing more than that. this is isnt' for video or music just roms. I have other platforms for music and video so that is not needed.

Unfortunately I was just at office depot and they don't carry internal ide harddrives anymore. I swear I saw some online that said availble in store. They must not have updated the site recently as one of the store employees said they only carry sata in store.

edit - bestbuy has a eide western digital 160gb for 70.00. I think I'll pick that up unless they have a cheaper 80gb available.

[jagabo]

Fry's still sells PATA drives.

You shouldn't have any problem buying hard drives from reputable online dealers like NewEgg. You can still get 80 GB drives there for about US$35. Note that OEM drives typically have shorter warranties than retail drives.

Another possibility is to use a 3.5" to 2.5" adapter and a laptop drive. Laptop drives consume less power than desktop drives. Mounting might be a problem.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812203012

[yoda313]

Thanks jagabo.

Well I got back from Bestbuy. They did indeed have the eide Western Digital 160gb drive in stock. I got it for 70.00 they price they had online. I should be set now in terms of storage space and it is a 3.5" drive.

Sorry jagabo for some reason I keep putting two 0's on your forum name.....

Anyway - I won't be able to work on this until later this week. I don't have any tork screws. I had ordered some online yesterday and I'm sure they'll ship Monday for delivery later in the week.

Now I'm gonna go back online for more research on this undertaking.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

[lordsmurf]

I use $50 500GB+ SATA drives, with a $2 SATA-to-IDE connector, bought from Geeks.com. I was really unsure how well it would work, but it turned out to be a great solution. I'll probably do it again soon, because I have a drive acting up on another system that is IDE-only (but can accept large drives).

Some older systems won't see more than 120GB.

[yoda313]

@lordsmurf - I am happy with what I bought but I am curious - is that for the xbox just like I'm planning? Did you have enough room for the adapter?

Anyway I'm looking forward to this experiment. Like I said more research is needed and then I'll be ready.....

EDIT - guess not - never mind....

[lordsmurf]

I meant for a computer -- for the XBOX it would work, if you're willing to Frankenstein the box some. Honestly, most high-end XBOX mods Frankenstein it, be it dropping in a better CPU, soldering in more/faster RAM, or replacing/adding hard drives.

I would think it possible to entirely replace an XBOX case with a standard midtower case, though the case may need some dremel work, maybe a little duct tape to hold everything in place.

[yoda313]

@lordsmurf - actually I'm not that adept at that type of stuff. I'm just gonna do the harddrive.

Unfortunately i just found out my toolkit is gonna be a week or more to deliver. I'll have time to review the transfer process.