VCD menu numbering >9 problems, please help!

[jea46f]

-Hey!-

So, I've gotten into all the VCD authoring fun in just this last week. I've made a VCD with a menu that has 13 selections on it. The problem is that I can't select items 10-13 because my DVD player takes me directly to #1 before I get a chance to enter the second digit.

*sigh*

I don't know if this is a stupid question or not, but I'm asking it, anyhow: What do I need to do in order to use the number buttons on my remote to play all 13 tracks? Can you do something like use: 01, 02, 03...10, 11, etc.? If so, how do I do that? Do I have to modify the .xml? I've been using TSCV to put everything together, then I've been modifying the .xml in order to do simple things like play audio tracks while the menu is showing. So, I do have a working knowledge of .xml if what I need to do requires that (just so you know).

Well, I'll shut up know so that I can post this and wait desperately for replies. Thanks!

-Later!-
Eric
http://www.missouri.edu/~jea46f

[jea46f]

Okay, nevermind... I figured out what I did wrong...
I forgot to copy the "select ref" tags to the audio sequence that follows the still menu. God, I feel stupid now!

Maybe someone else will learn from my mistake, who knows?

[jea46f]

Wait, no!

I tested it out and it still doesn't work!

Can anyone help me out?

[jinco]

I may be wrong as I have never used TSCV, but I dont think VCD's CAN have proper menus, but try using the arrow keys on your remote instead of the number keys, you should be able to cycle through all of the selections.

[jwhitlow]

Most DVD players (at least the ones that I have seen) have a "+10" button on the remote. Push this and then push 2 and you will get selection number 12.

[jea46f]

First of all, I'd like to say thank you two for responding.

But...

I may be wrong as I have never used TSCV, but I dont think VCD's CAN have proper menus, but try using the arrow keys on your remote instead of the number keys, you should be able to cycle through all of the selections.

I didn't want to use just the arrow keys... or else I wouldn't have went through all the trouble to create a menu in the first place! As far as VCDs not having a proper menu, well I did fix the problem. [see below]

Most DVD players (at least the ones that I have seen) have a "+10" button on the remote. Push this and then push 2 and you will get selection number 12.

My DVD player doesn't have a "+10" button! But nevertheless, I solved my problem. Let this be a lesson to anyone who tries to make a menu with selections greater than 9:

Use "01" for the BSN in the .xml instead of "1"! (This came to me in a dream. Then I tried it out today and it worked! [For those of you who already knew this and are saying, "I couldn't have told you that!", I ask, "Well, why didn't you?"])

[vitualis]

Firstly, you can't use arrows on VCD menus.

Secondly, bsn=1 is absolutely identical to bsn=01. This has absolutely no bearing on how a hardware player handles numerical key entries greater than 10.

If your phenomenon actually existed, then it is due to something else, probably an XML error somewhere.

Regards.

[LTT]

vitualis, don't act like you know everything when you don't.

If you don't think you can use arrows on VCD menus then you have never used Ulead DVD Movie Factory.

[vitualis]

Unless Ulead rewrote the VCD specifications (which they haven't), then you cannot use the arrows on a VCD.

If you are going to make a personal statement, at least be factually accurate. Obviously you've never used Ulead to make a standard VCD and actually tried it out on a stand-alone player.

Regards.

[jea46f]

Firstly, you can't use arrows on VCD menus.

I never said anything about arrows. What I was referring to was a menu that displayed the titles of each mpeg and a number to go with it so that when you press the number (or numbers, as I was having trouble with), you would be taken to that track. This is what I was referring to as a menu.

Secondly, bsn=1 is absolutely identical to bsn=01. This has absolutely no bearing on how a hardware player handles numerical key entries greater than 10.

When my base number in the .xml was "1," I couldn't select track ten using my thenumber buttons on my remote. My DVD player took me to track 1 immediately. However, when I changed my BSN to "01," I was able to input "1+0" on my remote in order to go to track ten. For track one, however, I now had to press "0+1" rather than just "1." This was the answer to my problem.

If you don't believe me, try it and see. Set up a mock VCD with small MPEGs. Try it once with BSN "1" on the menu and once with BSN "01." Don't just take my word... TRY IT!

If your phenomenon actually existed, then it is due to something else, probably an XML error somewhere.

Yeah, see above. (If still confused, read my previous posts as well. [...and if STILL confused, try it out yourself!])

[jea46f]

If you are going to make a personal statement, at least be factually accurate

[vitualis]

I never said anything about arrows.

In reference to jinco's post.

When my base number in the .xml was "1," I couldn't select track ten using my thenumber buttons on my remote. My DVD player took me to track 1 immediately. However, when I changed my BSN to "01," I was able to input "1+0" on my remote in order to go to track ten. For track one, however, I now had to press "0+1" rather than just "1." This was the answer to my problem.

If you don't believe me, try it and see. Set up a mock VCD with small MPEGs. Try it once with BSN "1" on the menu and once with BSN "01." Don't just take my word... TRY IT!

Once again: BSN=1 is absolutely identical to BSN=01.

If you want absolute confirmation, I'll e-mail hvr for you and he can confirm it for me with the source code.

Again, if the problem actually existed at all (did you try pressing 0+1 in your original "problem" discs?), then it indicates an XML error somewhere else.

As for the > 10 problem you have, I don't have this issue with either of my players. One has a 10+ button on the remote and the other requires you to press an "enter" key after the numbers (i.e., "1" is "1"+"enter" and "10" is "1"+"0"+"enter").

Regards.

[jea46f]

Once again: BSN=1 is absolutely identical to BSN=01.

Maybe it doesn't matter to you that once I changed the number, and ONLY the number, my problem was resolved.

If you want absolute confirmation, I'll e-mail hvr for you and he can confirm it for me with the source code.

You can have anyone e-mail me that you'd like. But my problem was resolved with using "01" as the BSN. If you'd like, I can send you the two .xml's and some dummy .mpg's and have you try them out.

Again, if the problem actually existed at all (did you try pressing 0+1 in your original "problem" discs?), then it indicates an XML error somewhere else.

Yes, I tried "0+1." I got a "?" for the zero, then "1" took me to track one. However, once I changed the BSN to "01," my DVD player no longer gave me a "?1" when I pressed "01," rather it gave me a "01."

As for the > 10 problem you have, I don't have this issue with either of my players. One has a 10+ button on the remote and the other requires you to press an "enter" key after the numbers (i.e., "1" is "1"+"enter" and "10" is "1"+"0"+"enter").

If this is the case, then you don't have a way to test my problem. My player, on the other hand, only has selection numbers 0-9. I don't press "enter" to go to the selection. I have an RCA RC5215P, which is probably one of the pickiest standalone DVD/VCD players. Therefore, when I get something to work on it, I am pretty sure that it will work on almost any NTSC standalone player.

Before you reply again telling me that I don't really have a problem and that there is no difference between BSN=1 and BSN=01, please consider this:


The only change I made in the .xml of the faulty copy was from BSN=1 to BSN=01 and the problem was resolved.


Thanks

[vitualis]

Look, I'm glad that you've solved your problem, but I think you've missed the point. VCDImager simply doesn't (to the best of my knowledge) work in that way so if you are suggesting what you claim to be the solution, I am extremely skeptical.

It shouldn't matter that you replaced the "1" with "01" as VCDImager should TREAT IT THE SAME when compiling the CUE/BIN image from the XML.

The only conclusion I can make is that you've in fact change something else that fixed your problem. Indeed, from this very thread, it would seem to me that you've done MORE than just change "1" to "01". The "1" vs "01" may just be co-incidental.

I will write to hvr (the author of vcdimager) on this issue to get his opinion on this.

Regards.

[jea46f]

VCDImager simply doesn't (to the best of my knowledge) work in that way so if you are suggesting what you claim to be the solution, I am extremely skeptical . . . I will write to hvr (the author of vcdimager) on this issue to get his opinion on this.

Good idea. If you are unsure, ask someone who might know.

It shouldn't matter that you replaced the "1" with "01" as VCDImager should TREAT IT THE SAME when compiling the CUE/BIN image from the XML.

Well, it did something different once I changed the BSN from "1" to "01," that's for sure!

The only conclusion I can make is that you've in fact change something else that fixed your problem. Indeed, from this very thread, it would seem to me that you've done MORE than just change "1" to "01". The "1" vs "01" may just be co-incidental.

True. But allow me to clarify what I did. Here is a list of times I've changed the disc:

1: I wrote the image the first time. I forgot to copy the reference selections in the menu to the segment-item tag for audio that followed it. The base number on the menu and audio were both "1."

2: Once I realized that I forgot to copy the reference selections, I then copied them to the audio segment tag without changing the base numbers on either of them. At this point, the base numbers were still "1."

3: I tried the disc out again and still was not able to select track ten using "1+0" on my remote. After thinking it through in bed, I changed the BSN in the .xml, and ONLY THE BSN to "01" just to see if that would work. Sure enough, it did.

So, the first disc I created was flawed. The second disc was the one that contained BSN=1. The only thing changed on the thrid disc was the BSN to "01."

Hence:

The only difference between disc #2 and #3 was the BSN.

I'll be interested in hearing what the author of VCDImager has to say. Please be sure to mention my remote!

[vitualis]

I take it that in your second step that the base number was 1 not "0".

Again, you've taken multiple editing steps and what you REMEMBER may not be actually what happened.

I'm sorry, but you can't really impress me with your big red text. For the time being, your "solution" makes as much sense as me saying that after I began eating with a fork in my left hand rather than my right, I stopped getting indigestion.

However, I've already sent an e-mail to hvr and I'm sure he'll give a definitive answer to all of this.

Regards.

[vitualis]

Actually, according to you, the only diffference between the discs in #2 and #3 were "1" and "01" right?

And #2 didn't work on your player but #3 did?

Why don't you use CDRWin or CDRDAO to create a CUE/BIN image of those two discs and then use VCDXRIP to recreate the XML files.

Then see if there are any differences between XML files...

Regards.

[jea46f]

I take it that in your second step that the base number was 1 not "0".

Correct. That was a typo.

Again, you've taken multiple editing steps and what you REMEMBER may not be actually what happened.

My memory doesn't have as much to do with it as does the fact that I saved the .xml document each time. Do you ever save your .xml's?

I'm sorry, but you can't really impress me with your big red text.

Sorry about that. Just thought it would help to clarify what I had done. But I guess it didn't.

For the time being, your "solution" makes as much sense as me saying that after I began eating with a fork in my left hand rather than my right, I stopped getting indigestion.

Change that similie to: It makes as much sense as saying, "Once I began holding my fork with my left hand instead of my right, I stoped making such a mess because I am actually left handed."

However, I've already sent an e-mail to hvr and I'm sure he'll give a definitive answer to all of this.

It's good that you've finally decided to ask someone who might know rather than spouting how much you doubt me.

...according to you, the only diffference between the discs in #2 and #3 were "1" and "01" right?

Correct. You may be getting my point.

And #2 didn't work on your player but #3 did?

Exactly! I could not select track 10, 11, or 12 using the number keys on disc #2 because my DVD player sent me to track #1 each time. However, on track three, my DVD player accepted my entry of "1" as the first in a two-digit entry rather than my final entry.

You just might be understanding this after all!

Why don't you use CDRWin or CDRDAO to create a CUE/BIN image of those two discs and then use VCDXRIP to recreate the XML files.

Then see if there are any differences between XML files...

I have no doubts as to what I have done with the .xml files. You seem to have a hard time believing that I did what I did and that I even had a problem in the first place. I'm convinced that the only way you'll believe me is if someone else can verify this information. So, please ask the author!

[vitualis]

Okay, hvr hasn't replied yet, but I decided to do a quick test of my own.

Here are the two XML files I will use. I'm only posting the relevant different sections as the rest is identical.

test1.xml

<pbc>
    <selection id="select-mainmenu">
      <bsn>1</bsn>
      <wait>-1</wait>
      <loop jump-timing="immediate">1</loop>
      <play-item ref="seg-mainmenu"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_base"/>
    </selection>

    <selection id="select-pic01_base">
      <return ref="select-mainmenu"/>
      <wait>-1</wait>
      <loop jump-timing="immediate">1</loop>
      <play-item ref="pic01_base"/>
    </selection>
</pbc>

test2.xml

<pbc>
    <selection id="select-mainmenu">
      <bsn>01</bsn>
      <wait>-1</wait>
      <loop jump-timing="immediate">1</loop>
      <play-item ref="seg-mainmenu"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_base"/>
    </selection>

    <selection id="select-pic01_base">
      <return ref="select-mainmenu"/>
      <wait>-1</wait>
      <loop jump-timing="immediate">1</loop>
      <play-item ref="pic01_base"/>
    </selection>
</pbc>

The only difference between test1.xml and test2.xml is that the latter has <bsn>01</bsn>.

When compiled to CUE/BIN files (test1.cue/bin and test2.cue/bin respectively), the filesizes of both the cue files and both the bin files were identical.

A vcdxdebug of the bin file yielded identical outputs except for a trivial difference on the fifth line (source file for the first was "test1.bin" and the source file for the second was "test2.bin").

By the way, I know that the vcdxdebug outputs were identical because I used a file comparison tool: http://www.prestosoft.com/examdiff/examdiff.htm

Using the same tool on the BIN files showed that they were IDENTICAL.

That is, both the above XML files created identical BIN files.

This is what I stated all along. The BSN=1 and BSN=01 are treated identically by vcdxbuild.

If you have the difference in behaviour as you described, it is due to something else... Perhaps a VCDDEBUG of your BIN images will sort it out.

Now, before you start "spouting" about how I don't believe you (I believe that you have a problem! ...it is just that your "solution" isn't really the solution and I just proved it above), please take into account that I am speaking from experience. My VCD authoring guides using XML are the ones on VCDImager.org: http://www.vcdimager.org/guides

Regards.

[jea46f]

I don't need to debug. I have fixed the problem myself. Thanks for your comments, but what I did worked, whether you believe me or not.

A flaw I see in your test, however, is that you did not include at least ten reference selections. You have only included one. Try it with ten or more now. (I would use at least 11 to be safe.)

[vitualis]

That's right, I don't believe you and indeed you have nothing more that information that is word of mouth.

To make you happy, I did the same thing with a VCD with a selection of > 10 items (16 in fact):

test1.xml

    <selection id="select-pic01_base">
      <bsn>1</bsn>
      <wait>-1</wait>
      <loop jump-timing="immediate">1</loop>
      <play-item ref="pic01_base"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_01"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_02"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_03"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_04"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_05"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_06"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_07"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_08"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_09"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_10"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_11"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_12"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_13"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_14"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_15"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_16"/>
    </selection>

test2.xml

    <selection id="select-pic01_base">
      <bsn>01</bsn>
      <wait>-1</wait>
      <loop jump-timing="immediate">1</loop>
      <play-item ref="pic01_base"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_01"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_02"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_03"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_04"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_05"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_06"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_07"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_08"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_09"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_10"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_11"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_12"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_13"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_14"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_15"/>
      <select ref="select-pic01_z2_16"/>
    </selection>

Again, only the pertinent differences are posted. test2.xml has the "01".

And just as before, both the vcddebug logs are identical (except for the trivial difference in line 5) and the comparisons of the bin files are identical.

That is, BSN=01 has absolutely NO effect on how the BIN file is compiled compared to BSN=1 (which is what I thought).

Now, I have given PROOF that BSN=01 couldn't have affected anything but if you would like to persist with your unreproducible idea, be my guest. But don't you want to know what REALLY caused the problem in the first place?

Regards.[/b]

[jea46f]

Well, I didn't believe you, so I ran a similar test. ExamDiff showed no differences in the two files. I then extracted the .xml's from the .bin's and found they had no differences, either. Certain that both methods were wrong, I burnt the two discs and tested them. It turns out you were right after all and I'm a stubborn ass.

This has been a fun thread, though. But now can you guess what it was I did wrong to get the bad menu on disc #2?

I know you hate big red text, but:

I'm a stubborn ass! I was wrong, you were right!

[jea46f]

BTW, thanks for taking the time to put a newbie in his place!

[vitualis]

Look, no hard feelings!

The forums are just words and I think that it's great that you spent the time to work things out for yourself!

As for why disc two didn't work, there are many many possible reasons (firmware problems? intermittent media issues? etc.), but if you don't have a problem anymore, I would just let it lie as a gremlin...

By the way, if you have any specific XML problems or VCDImager specific forums, try posting at the VCDImager forums: http://forums.vcdimager.org

Regards.