is it possible to ivtc a 29fps ntsc source to 25fps xvid with gnot?

[iamtehsux]

if so how?

[edDV]

IVTC from 29.97 film source gets you 23.976 fps progressive. You can always play it fast to get to 25fps.

[manono]

Strictly speaking, yes, an IVTC gets you 23.976fps. But there are quite a few NTSC DVDs made from PAL masters that can be unblended or (in very rare instances) "IVTC'd" to 24.975 or 25fps. This can be done in GKnot (not in AutoGK) by editing the GKnot generated .avs. For more informed advice, a small sample of the source - one with movement - will be needed.

[edDV]

Yes but OP stated "29fps" which would be NTSC. Maybe iamtehsux can be more specific about the source.

[manono]

Yes but OP stated "29fps" which would be NTSC.

I don't understand. I'm talking about NTSC DVDs as well. And quite a few have a PAL movie inside trying to get out. Maybe you've never seen one of these things. Count your blessings.

If he wants, as you're thinking, to make a real 23.976fps movie into 25fps for some peculiar reason then, yes, he'll have to speed up both the video and audio. Either that or create one duplicate frame every second, a bad idea. The video can easily be speeded up in the GKnot .avs. The audio will have to be handled outside of GKnot, in BeSweet. Again though, a sample will be useful.

[iamtehsux]

im not 100% sure but to me looks like ntsc mastered from pal source and would need ivtc to 25/24.975fps

here is a small sample.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/rilxws

[iamtehsux]

was also wondering what would be the correct way to use DustV5.dll/SpaceDust in Gknot.

i know you need the LoadPluginEX.dll and DustV5.dll but where and in what order would you add the loadplugin lines and where would you put the SpaceDust() line at when editing the avs?

[manono]

The easiest way to do this from within the GKnot generated .avs is to save it, open it, and then edit it. You're right that this came from a PAL video converted to NTSC. And it was converted by field-blending. You don't need an IVTC but an unblender. The easiest script to get going would be this:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)#or your favorite bobber
RePAL()

You can get both filters (as well as many other bobbing deinterlacers and other filters) here:

http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

Stick the .dlls whereever all the other GKnot .dlls are located. Then replace some unused LoadPlugins at the top of the script with the 2 new filters and uncomment them (remove the "#") like so:

#LoadPlugin("D:\AviSynth Stuff\Dlls\DGDecode.dll")
LoadCPlugin("D:\DVDSTU~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ Yadif.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\DVDSTU~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\R ePAL.dll")
LoadPlugin("D:\DVDSTU~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\U nDot.dll")
#LoadPlugin("D:\DVDSTU~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ dgbob.dll")
#LoadPlugin("D:\DVDSTU~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ Convolution3d.dll")
#LoadPlugin("D:\DVDSTU~1\GORDIA~1\AviSynthPlugins\ FluxSmooth.dll")

Yadif is a C Plugin and you have to add in the "C" as I did. That's one way to do it, anyway.

Stick the 2 commands in the main body of the script somewhere:

# DEINTERLACING (1)
Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)#or your favorite bobber
RePAL()
#FieldDeinterlace()
#FieldDeinterlace(blend=false)
#TomsMoComp(1,5,1)

Save the script and open it in VDub(Mod) to test that it opens, does what you want, and is 24.975fps (no other filters turned on that might change things). Make sure you didn't turn on any other IVTC or deinterlacers, or just delete everything that isn't required. Then encode.

That isn't really the optimum way to unblend that video. I noticed some missing frames and still blended frames, but it's pretty good. Unfortunately, the best way I figured to unblend it is fairly complicated to set up. This should do.

I don't use the dust filters. As far as I know, no one does any more. Why not use the included Convolution3D if you think the video needs cleaning up? If you want them and have instructions on how to set them up, add the required .dlls as I showed you, up at the top. Add the commands themselves in the body of the script, after RePAL but before any cropping and resizing. That's how I'd do it, anyway, if I used those filters, which I don't. They're real slow, you know.

[iamtehsux]

when trying to use yadif it tells me its not a valid avisynth 2.5 plugin

[manono]

Yadif is a C Plugin and you have to add in the "C" as I did. That's one way to do it, anyway.

Did you load it as a C plugin, as instructed? Check the script above.

[iamtehsux]

yes i did just as above LoadCPlugin. also i have a question about another source, is it also ntsc mastered from a pal source and if not what needs to be done to it when encoding to xvid to get rid of all the ghosting.

heres a small vobsample

http://www.sendspace.com/file/j0klt3

[manono]

yes i did just as above LoadCPlugin.

Then check to see if your AviSynth is up to date. If you don't know the version and age, add Version() to the bottom of the script and open it up in VDub. Also, you didn't get the YadifMod, did you? I believe it loads normally (no C Plugin).

If still no luck, use a different bobber. TDeint has a bobbing form. So does LeakKernelDeint

The second sample can be handled the same as the first.

[iamtehsux]

i am using AviSynth 2.5 and didnt use YadifMod just the normal yadif from that list of plugin on that site you posted. tried both ways without the C says not a valid avisynth 2.5 plugin and with the C it says its not a valid avisynth C plugin. i believe i do have TDeint and LeakKernelDeint what would be the correct syntax for those with those 2 dif vobsamples?

[poisondeathray]

Try this:
Load_Stdcall_Plugin("PATH\yadif.dll")

TDeint syntax is the same as yadif for double rate, tff:
TDeint(mode=1,order=1)

[manono]

i am using AviSynth 2.5...

Not good enough, as different versions of 2.5 have been out since 2003. We're up to 2.5.8 now. 2.5 what? You need at least 2.5.7 for LoadCPlugin to work without also loading a separate Avisynth_c.dll. Load_Stdcall_plugin may work.

[iamtehsux]

Avisynth 2.5.3

[manono]

And that explains your error message. Yours is five and a half years old already. Upgrade.

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=57023

[iamtehsux]

ok i think i got it will report back after some test encodes. also you said the second sample could be handled the same way but is it infact ntsc mastered from a pal source like the first sample?

[manono]

Yes.

[iamtehsux]

Thanks for all the help i got it all working now. for future reference whats a sure way to check if a dvd is NTSC mastered from a PAL source?

[manono]

Better late than never, eh?

How to find if it used a PAL source? It can be tricky, and I use a bunch of ways. Generally, if it's been blended it's from a PAL source, but this isn't 100% true. To find if it's been blended, separate the fields or put on a bobber. Looking at the separated fields, if from an NTSC source they'll go 2-3-2-3-2-3, while if from a PAL source they'll go 2-3-2-2-3-2-3-2-2-3. In general, a true NTSC source has a 5 frame pattern while a PAL source for NTSC has a 6 frame pattern. So, just looking at the unfiltered frames, there might be 1 or 2 frames in every 6 frame cycle that look progressive while the rest are interlaced, if a PAL source was used.

[iamtehsux]

what about a ntsc dvd of a uk show presumably mastered from a pal source with every frame interlaced would it need to be done at 24fps or just deintlaced?

something like this:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/q4dhm3

[manono]

That's an interesting one. If it did start life as PAL, then it was converted to NTSC in a very clever way, and doesn't really exhibit any field blending. It looks like regular old interlaced NTSC. Every field is different. Keep it interlaced if for DVD. If it has to be progressive, like for AVI or web streaming or something like that, just use the best deinterlacer that time allows.

Again, separate the fields or bob it and have a look. Sometimes when I'm having trouble figuring the framerate of a blended source I'll do this:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
SRestore(FRate=29.97)

And start looking for the dupe pattern in the unblended 29.97fps video. Actually, that's what I did with your latest sample, after noticing all the frames were interlaced, as you said. But with this one there no duplicate frames. I smelled a rat and separated the fields, and saw every field was different, with no obvious field-blending.

[iamtehsux]

what about this one?

http://www.sendspace.com/file/2znavx

[manono]

Standard interlaced 29.97fps, just like the last one.

[iamtehsux]

thanks to the help i got ive been pretty good til now cant decide 100% if this source needs to be done @ 24fps

http://www.sendspace.com/file/28o0kb

[manono]

It's 24.975/25fps.

Choose better samples - ones with actual movement.

[iamtehsux]

if anyone is still checking this thread i could use a little help with another sample

on first look i thought it only required normal ivtc but after a second look im not 100% sure if it needs to be done at 24fps or not

heres a sample WITH movement: http://www.sendspace.com/file/tgg2po

[manono]

It's field-blended 23.976->29.97

Yadif(Order=1,Mode=1)
SRestore(FRate=23.976)

Good sample.

[iamtehsux]

finally got yadif working properly kept forgetting to add the C in LoadPlugin. now im getting the message

Script error: there is no function named "SRestore" guess i must be missing 1 or more dll files

and can you post a sample avs that you used for the last sample that needed yadif/srestore