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  1. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
    Seeker47 i love eSATA, and still do.. but Oxford stopped making chips years ago. Every chip manufacturer did., the only consolation I have found is that SATA based motherboards or devices can be turned into eSATA hosts with a special bulkhead connector.. but that's not for normal people. OWC has discontinued all eSATA devices in favor of Thunderbolt.. so that generation (eSATA) is long gone. I still patrol auction sites looking for old eSATA gear.. but its getting pretty thin.

    I don't like hating on DVD or Blu-ray.. I rather like the format.. but its incredibly small by todays standards of file storage.

    I don't trust spinning rust.

    But its almost all that's left.

    Maintaining it by active monitoring and cloning, is tedious.. and problematic.. its not fool proof.

    i seriously don't know what to do.. i am hoping m.2 proves stable since archived video is not written over and over again, but stays static on the chips.. for how long is debatable.

    and I totally (Totally) agree with Orsetto
    m.2 (not to be confused with the movement that became part of the socio-political fallout detailed in "Bombshell" and "The Loudest Voice" ) is a type of SSD -- correct ? I should keep up on these tech developments better . . . .
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  2. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Seeker47 View Post
    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    i don't mind HDD storage. my oldest nas has 63,048 hours (over 7 years) of continuous on time with the original drives. samsung knew how to make hard drives
    Interesting. Fry's and Micro Centre were my 'Go-To's, never did much mail order, preferring to buy what I could see, off the shelf. I'm a longterm Western Digital buyer (Made in Thailand, only), though I'm old enough to remember when the very best enterprise or server-class HDDs were the SCSI IBM's that were made in Hungary. Best MTBF specs. I've seen plenty of Seagates and Toshiba HDDs for sale, but can't recall running into any Samsungs. A regional thing, maybe -- or just not from brick & mortar retail places ? Where did you source them from ?


    seagate bought samsung's HDD business in 2011. before that they were readily available, i bought most through newegg.
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    "a lot of people are better dead" - prisoner KSC2-303
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    the longest lived drives are only known (after) they have been on the market for a while

    HGST was recently bought by Western Digital.. the Chinese Government (.. the Chinese Government ?) stepped in and was worried about a monopoly in the business where all brands were made by only "one" maker in their country..

    As a condition of Sale.. Western Digital had to divest (some) of the old Hitachi (HGST) plants to Toshiba.. (who did not want them).. and Toshiba had to keep making the drives and offer them for sale.. or Western Digital could not buy HGST

    Toshiba drives are kind of a "reluctant" model for now.. they didn't want the business.. but the drives are getting phenomenal reviews on sites like Backblaze.. when they can get a few in..

    Seagate is rumored to be looking to exit the spinning rust business and go totally SSD.. they tried hybrids.. but that didn't work out.. they are a mystery at this point. They might go total cloud storage model and stop selling to the public in a few years. I wonder if Google or Amazon will buy them in a pre-emptive move. Big data is worried about vast cheap data.. silicon is not that cheap yet. Recycling silicon however is less complex than picking apart mechanical drives.

    WD (regardless of brand) is practically the sole source supplier to the public now.. which reminds me of Verbatim and CMC.. we're down to one.. how much longer will spinning rust be around ?

    m.2 to me is interesting.. since it is silicon, and the laptop and tablet/phone market is still paying for it.. its increasing in size.. and durability for long term storage might make it the best alternative to ancient "ink printing technologies" like DVDs or Blu-ray

    m.2 is already at 1 and 2 TB in a surface area far smaller than a DVD or Blu-ray disk.. with 6 Gb/s interfaces with a basic compression from MPEG2 that's around 1000 to 2000 hours of standard definition video, on a single stick.

    it could be a fools errand.. I don't know a lot about m.2 at the moment.. but I'm looking towards understanding it better.

    Toshiba drives when you can get them are great.. but eventually they will wear out.. the old Hitachi plants will have to be replaced.. or the deal will run out.. and WD will get the Toshiba brand to put on their drives.

    In ten years spinning rust will be as popular as 5 1/4 floppy disks.
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    Last edited by jwillis84; 19th Jan 2020 at 02:12.
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  4. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
    I shouldn't go off like that.. it will upset people.

    Pioneer BDR-2209 / BDR-209UBK

    The prices for good player/burners is going back up though even for older models, which makes me wonder if they have already been discontinued and someone knows something not public yet.
    At first glance, I'm seeing a from $60. to > $100. price difference on these, as between Amazon and NewEgg. In the past, Amazon (direct, not with 3rd. party sellers) had a better rep. for handling returns or refunds in the event of defective goods. Do VH readers have any strong preference on where to buy -- and considering the price spread -- with these suppliers ?

    [Separately, I would add that in the case of discontinued items, I've generally had pretty good luck finding things on eBay . . . but of course you need to check on condition, avoid ridiculous bidding wars on scarce items that may be in demand, and to be picky about who you buy from.]
    Last edited by Seeker47; 19th Jan 2020 at 15:11.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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  5. Member Seeker47's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    It really has become annoying to watch history repeat itself all over again (for those of us old enough to have seen this "movie" before). Instead of taking a balanced wait-and-see attitude, people are again running headlong off a cliff in pursuit of apparent convenience, with nary a single thought to how that might completely box them in and screw them over in the future. Consumers can't get enough of streaming, to the point its burying physical media before it can even get its coffin lid closed. And predictably, just as in the '80 and '90s, terrified dumbstruck studios are trying to stay one step ahead of a stampede they can never understand and have nothing but contempt for in any case.

    Between "live for today" consumers and content providers with no clue, a destructive tsunami has been unleashed that is drowning data storage options as collateral damage. For better and worse, the computer industry long ago abandoned dedicated storage options in favor of jumping on the consumer optical disc formats. This made for some economies of scale and universal compatibility we would never have had otherwise, but after a good 20 year run the underlying subsidy of those consumer formats (CD, DVD, BD) is evaporating like dew on an Arizona morning.

    Without mass market demand for entertainment system devices and media to play on them, PC data storage has been forced to migrate to cloud solutions That sort of thing is single-handedly floating Microsoft (and is a huge chunk of Amazon's non-retail business), but doesn't do squat for us non-corporate individual peasants who just want safe, private, durable storage solutions we can own and control in our homes. We finally had a decent updated alternative with BD-R HTL, but they've already begun kill it. Redundant sets of HDDs is about the only remaining option, and I hate it with a passion (too much reliance on a single magnetic technology, that requires endless nannying and periodic re-cloning).

    At least we'll have the hollow satisfaction of watching the streaming juggernaut implode over the next couple years. It only really worked when there was just Netflix and Hulu funneling everything from every source: now, every studio is doing takebacks and trying to forge their own separate service. Thats going to end up being about as popular as their VHS "rental-only, no more owning, each cassette is unlocked to play just once" strategy. I'll be interesting to see what the "post-streaming" paradigm turns out to be.
    It's astonishing that the issues of archival storage, in part alluded to within this thread, have not taken on a vastly greater importance and urgency -- both for companies and for individuals. That applies to most varieties of data storage. On the one hand, there is the example of some truly ancient tech: pieces of the Dead Sea Scrolls, or sections of the original Magna Carta, and founding documents for our country that are preserved under museum glass, hopefully for a long time to come. But our latter day tech has vastly changed that landscape, with some alarmingly short time horizons. I recall reading an interesting article about storage and retrieval, devices and media, regarding what stored material may or may not still be readable / viewable well within the lifetimes of many in today's populations. And this probably gets into a general human shortsightedness.

    Practical examples abound. A relative happens to be a rather skilled photographer. It's mainly a sideline for him, but he's won awards in several regional shows. A few years back, he expressed some concern to me about archival photo storage for preserving his work, ever since film and negatives gave way to digital formats. Those 1's & 0's are readily subject to being corrupted. I told him about an article I had read, about PAR files with checksums, that some more technically aware photographers seemed to be getting into. He seemed relieved. But even so, we are still left with issues of storage devices and media. For now, it would be great if SD cards had good, proven, long-term storage capability . . . but I don't know that they do.

    This also gets into the area of overlap between accessibility and security. As a near-Luddite, I have a near-zero faith in today's vaunted cloud-based solutions. They are just a good terrorist-attack and the next iteration of

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICloud_leaks_of_celebrity_photos

    away from exposure or total wipeout. If it's not directly at hand and under your local control, it's all pretty dubious, is what I'd say.
    When in Las Vegas, don't miss the Pinball Hall of Fame Museum http://www.pinballmuseum.org/ -- with over 150 tables from 6+ decades of this quintessentially American art form.
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