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  1. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    I'm sure I'm not the only one who can't get this straight. I read this thread but there are conflicting reports there so hopefully someone will help me clear the cobwebs and tell me the best way to accomplish what I want.
    https://forum.videohelp.com/topic360082.html#1933381

    I didn't want to reopen or hijack that other topic to deal with my own situation.

    My mboard is an Asus P5N-EM HDMI
    http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=628&l4=0&model=2036&modelmenu=1

    It only has 4 sata2 internal ports and no eSata or sata external connectors. 3 of my ports are used for 2 hdd and 1 DVD burner which leaves 1 spare.

    This is what I want to do:
    I want to buy an eSata external enclosure and a sata2 drive (size not decided yet)

    http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1159&ID=1652

    This unit can hold up to a 1tb drive and has an eSata connector but it also has what they call an eSata bracket which looks like it's for the back of the computer.

    Some people seem to be saying that eSata and sata2 (data wise) are the same except for the connector type but others say I can't use this drive by just using this type of adapter plate. Will this "kit" work or is this just for people who already have internal eSata connectors and they want to bring them to the outside of the computer? So do I need to buy a PCIe x1 eSata card also? (I know what some of you are thinking but it's ok if you use more than one word to answer the question)

    Thanks
    ----------------------------

    Sorry... I found this after posting but it makes things interesting.

    http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1294&ID=1680

    I may be misinterpreting but it seems to imply that only the connector is different and that the bracket just uses a standard sata port and exposes a universal eSata port to the outside of the computer case. Am I wrong?
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  2. Member yoda313's Avatar
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    From what I know the esata is the flat long connection you use to connect to an external device. The card has to be configured for esata. I believe the default on pci sata cards is internal so you can't use one internal and one external slot - its either or not both.

    I'm not sure if that is exactly what your asking but I hope its a start.
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  3. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    There is some difference in the eSATA specifications, mostly for drive power. eSATA can also use longer cables, so has a extra layer of shielding.

    This from Wikipedia about eSATA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

    Minimum transmit potential increased: Range is 500–600 mV instead of 400–600 mV.
    Minimum receive potential decreased: Range is 240–600 mV instead of 325–600 mV.
    Identical protocol and logical signaling (link/transport-layer and above), allowing native SATA devices to be deployed in external enclosures with minimal modification
    I use several of those eSATA PCI slot adapters, some plugged into my MB SATA sockets and others plugged into a SATA PCI card. They all work fine with eSATA drives. But I use eSATA cables at the maximum 1 meter length for SATA. A longer 2 meter eSATA cable may be a problem when using a regular SATA socket.

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  4. get a combo eSATA/USB enclosure .just in case you wanna use it on a pc /laptop with no eSATA.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817810014
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  5. eSata is hot swappable does not require reboot
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  6. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    Appreciate the comments.

    I've also done a lot more reading and come to the conclusion that like redwudz does, I can use a eSata bracket / backplate which connects to an onboard sata2 port and passively puts out an eSata shaped connector on the backplate.

    I'm no doubt repeating what most of you know but that's how I retain information. From what I've read the eSata connector was designed (among other things) mainly to be more durable from frequent plugging and unplugging and to prevent people from using unshielded sata cables outside the computer. That's why they are shaped differently.

    The new standard also specifies a new power connector and voltages but when you buy an external enclosure most will provide an external power supply with the proper connector so that's not an issue. Those devices that draw power from the pc would obviously need some type of adapter as the enclosure I linked to did.

    This may not meet all the maximum data capacity aspects of future eSata compatible devices since apparently the standard will permit higher throughput than the older sata2 specs but isn't that similar to sata and sataII or usb 1.1 and usb 2.0 and yet more often than not they can co-exist with the slower limitations of the lesser port.

    In general I'm confident that some people make too much out of the minor incompatibility especially with the current sata and sataII drives. Given most currently available devices, there is little reason to rush out and buy an eSata PCIe card when they could have used a $10 backplate instead.

    Of course, one has to also use the properly keyed, shielded and more robust external cable/connector made for use between the enclosure and the pc but the one's I've looked at include the eSata cable.

    btw) MJA you're right I am looking only at combo units. The eSata is so I can load the data faster but I plan on using the drive with the Philips dvp-5990/92 which has a usb 2.0 port.

    I also emailed the manufacturer of the enclosure I linked to earlier and I can't use it because it's tied to an included proprietary power connector which draws from the computer. With no external power supply it's not transportable. Sort of defeats the (my) reason for an external drive. They have another unit but it''s more expensive and I'd have to buy my own sata/eSata backplate.

    @INFRATOM
    That's something else to think about. I don't have an answer for the hot swappable aspect since I've never stuck my hand in the pc to unplug my sata hdd and plugged it back in again. I don't know if the sata protocol allows that or not so that's a good point. Maybe redwudz knows the answer? (not a device connected to a eSata pci card but one connected to a standard sata port via an eSata backplate)

    More ref) Other than what some of you have provided this is some of my source material:
    http://www.answers.com/topic/serial-ata#External_SATA

    I may have missed something important because (I've been really busy looking up specs of 50/52" lcd or Plasma tv for an imminent purchase)
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  7. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    Got the HD video fever, then. I went for a Sony HD projector and a 12' screen, so I'm happy.

    I usually keep my external eSATAs plugged in with the PS on when I boot up my computers, so hot swapping isn't a issue. Regular SATA was supposed to be 'hot swap', but I got mixed results. Even if you have to reboot, not a big problem most times. Just plan ahead where you want to use your drive. Some external HDD enclosures can also 'power down' when not in use, so energy usage and heat buildup is not a big problem.

    Since you are still considering external enclosures, a regular eSATA enclosure and a standard SATA HDD is another option. The Fantom drive I use was on sale, but I have several enclosures that I have added SATA HDDs to. A few places to look:

    http://www.cwol.com/serial-ata/sata-drive-enclosures.htm

    http://www.usb-ware.com/aluminum-sata-hard-drive-case.htm

    http://www.cooldrives.com/

    A combo eSATA/USB 2.0 external enclosure may be a good choice, as it gives you a few more options.

    Generally SATA drives run a bit cooler than PATA drives, but a bit of cooling never hurts. A bit larger enclosure, maybe for more than one drive, along with a internal fan may be a good option and give you some room for future expansion.
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  8. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    @redwudz
    I'd have gone for the hd pj but I leave tv on too long for that. I also have a diy 720p (equivalent) Lumenlab design pj but it's a monster size and really don't have a good place for it. I bought a cheap used China made svga projector that uses easily replaceable cheap lamps rated at 6000 to 10000 hours each and I've got 3 spares. The image is good for sd but I don't like the screen door effect sitting too close. That's why I'm very close to buying the hdtv.

    A combo eSATA/USB 2.0 external enclosure may be a good choice, as it gives you a few more options.
    There are quite a few local suppliers of the combo eSata/usb 2.0 units with external power supplies. Those units all take sata1 or sata2 drives some as high as 1tb.. I had bought a WD 1tb usb only prepackaged drive / enclosure from BB but those drives aren't removable in case of problems, invalidate the warranty if opened and this model did not have good reviews. I returned it unopened and decided to go for something more diy and flexible. That's when the better eSata/usb idea hit me and I started researching the topic. The comments some people made in the other thread and elsewhere on the net caused more confusion than provide answers. I think I understand the subject now. Your comments confirmed that I could use a sata/sata2 drive in an eSata enclosure and use it with my pc providing I install a eSata backplate linked to one of the internal sata ports on my computer. The enclosure I linked to previously confirmed that also because they specifically refer to using an internal sata port on a pc and outputting an eSata port on the backplate. They also provide an external eSata cable for the enclosure. The reason I liked that enclosure is because they provided everything (except the hdd) and the local price was only $39 can. As I said the only problem is that they don't supply an external power supply and their power connector is proprietary. They have another more expensive enclosure but it lacks some of the parts I need so I would have to buy them separately which costs more. Whatever I get I want a metal enclosure for heat dissipation and a fan would be a bonus. The plastic ones look "cute" but can overheat the drive with prolonged use.

    As soon as I finalize this hdtv business the eSata enclosure and new sata2 hdd will be next on my list.
    There's not much to do but then I can't do much anyway.
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  9. I have one of these Esata/Usb combo units and have to admit it works really well. Mine came with ALL the necessary cables and brackets, I just wish you could get extra brackets for Esata connexs on other comps. It really is as fast as an internal drive but from my reading not Hot swappable. Mine is labelled "Tsunami", so I think its Chinese (Cheap too). It does have an external power supply, No fan.. saves that extra heat building up inside your computer case. A good Buy, recommended.
    Hopefully Esata will be incorporated on more MB's and case designs (SATA 3 too?)[s:c1f0558c3a]sata 4[/s:c1f0558c3a]
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  10. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    @RabidDog

    Here there are a number of small computer parts resellers who sell the eSata bracket / backplate. One place quoted $15 canadian and the other $11. The problem with the unit I wanted is the proprietary power cord attached to the computer ps that powers the enclosure. The manufacturer responded again to my email and pointed to 2 others that although they still use a proprietary connector at least have an external ps. They are listed at $20 more plus I have to buy my own bracket(s). I don't know if the local supplier can order those models or if he would mark them up even higher as a special order since he doesn't have them in stock. So I'll do some more searching over the next week or so. I'm not rushed. I already have an ide enclosure with usb but just for an 80gb and 40gb older drives I had lying around. This is what gave me the bug for bigger and faster.

    If I really needed hot swapping I could always fork out another $50 -$60 for a PCIe x1 eSata card which I'm sure would be fully compliant and probably allow hot swapping but the way I plan to use the drive, it would be just as easy to reboot when I want to load new video on the hdd. In the short term cheaper is better.
    There's not much to do but then I can't do much anyway.
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  11. I remember reading once about issues with combo drives(I think firewire/usb combo)and Philips dvd players(5960 Thread)
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  12. Renegade gll99's Avatar
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    @MJA
    I believe that the 5960 has a usb 1.1 port and the 5990/92 has a usb 2.0 port so that could make a difference.

    I forgot to mention that the company said that their usb/eSata enclosure worked with XP but not Vista. I find that statement puzzling. Why would an eSata enclosure need to be Vista compliant?
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  13. Mod Neophyte Super Moderator redwudz's Avatar
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    What I'm guessing they may mean about Vista compatibility is that some of their included software may not work with Vista. I don't know of any hardware difference between Vista and XP as far as external drives. My externals work fine with either OS.

    Hot swap capability is up to the SATA/eSATA controller. Not all controllers can do it, even some eSATA. If they work, you may have the 'Safely Remove Hardware' icon in the system tray, same as other removable devices. But it still may not detect when a new drive is added without a reboot. My Gigabyte MB came with a eSATA/SATA PCI bracket, but external drives aren't hot swapable, so I just reboot when I add a eSATA drive.

    Even then the added drive is not shown as removable. I'm guessing the problem is in the MB BIOS settings or the PCI controller BIOS settings. If the drive shows up there, the OS sees it. Rebooting will make it show.

    If you really need the hot swap capability, use the USB interface. That's one reason to have a dual format drive, USB and eSATA.

    Just to add, my Gigabyte MB does have a four pin Molex power connector on the eSATA PCI slot adapter for external drives, though I don't use it. This might be handy if you want the external drive to shut down completely when you turn off the computer. It would also be useful for hooking up a bare SATA drive, though you would need a Molex to SATA power adapter. (The PCI adapter does have a regular SATA socket also.)
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  14. If the drive doesn't show until reboot try this ... sometimes when windows try to assign it picks a letter from a lower letters and if all are taken the drive may not show. One way to remedy this to assign higher letters to drives and burners that are constant like X: Y: Z: etc and leave D, E and F at least free for flash and external drives. You can make it show too by going to manage computer and it would be there and give it a letter but it is a hassle.
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