Atomic clock sync not working

[bevills1]

Atomic clock sync from http://www.worldtimeserver.com/atomic-clock/ is supposed to sync PC time to atomic clock time, and should give message "Sending resync command to local computer The command completed suddessfully" when "SyncNow" button is clicked. For my Win2k SP4 system it displays a long list of options instead ending with "65531 == once every 45 min until we get 1 good sync, then
once every day
Otherwise, <freq> times per da" when SyncNow button is clicked. The results are identical on 2 different Win2k SP4 systems. Is there something I'm overlooking, why don't I get the expected response, and why is PC clock not synced to correct time?

[SLK001]

I'm assuming that it accesses the time servers via the internet. If this is so, have you set up your proxy properly? Do you have a firewall that is possibly blocking internet access?

I use Alfaclock and it uses SNTP to access the time servers and I had to setup a rule so that the firewall would let it access the internet.

[bevills1]

I just tried the older 2.7.0.3 version of atomic clock and it seems to work as it reset my PC clock that was fast by 54 seconds. There must be some bugs in the newest version.

[handyguy]

Why do you need it? Windoz PC's have their own program to set time that way & you can choose a time server.

[bevills1]

If Win2k has it, it's not working for me. What is the program? I have 2 Win2k SP4 systems that gain a few seconds per day and are 5 minutes fast after 2 to 3 weeks, i.e. until just recently when I installed 2.7.0.3 atomic clock sync.

[gadgetguy]

In Win2k you have to set it up manually. It's not enabled by default and there's no default clock address. It's been a while, but I think you use "net time" through a command prompt to set it up.

[bevills1]

Typing "net time" from a command prompt I get 'Could not locate a time-server. More help is available by typing NET HELPMSG 3912." Typing NET HELPMSG 3912 gives 'exitexitnet' is not a recognized internal or external command, operable program or batch file. Perhaps this program is something WinXP has that Win2k lacks.

Edit: Apparently I was mistaken about 2.7.0.3 atomic clock sync working, at least as it should, i.e. automatically. I just found it only resets clock when "Ping atomic clock" option is clicked when atomic clock sync is opened, and clock was reset by 12 seconds when I just did this. Are there any solutions that work without having to manually ping the atomic click? Maybe I'll give Alfaclock a try.

[gadgetguy]

This should help http://nettime.sourceforge.net/

[AlanHK]

If Win2k has it, it's not working for me. What is the program? I have 2 Win2k SP4 systems that gain a few seconds per day and are 5 minutes fast after 2 to 3 weeks, i.e. until just recently when I installed 2.7.0.3 atomic clock sync.

I run Win2k. It doesn't have the simple net time functions as XP. It may be possible to do it using Microsoft tools, but after a while messing with it I decided it's a lot simpler to get a third party utility.
I found two good (free!) NTP sync programs:

Dimension4 -- http://www.thinkman.com/dimension4/
You can set it to run on demand, or automatically on boot and then exit, or at a fixed interval.

And even simpler,
Switime -- http://www.sw4you.com/switime.php3
(Works with Win98 or above. Run through a command line or batch file. I had it to run every time I went online, using NetLaunch, but since I got a router that's redundant.)

In either case, pay attention to the time server. There will be a default, but best and more accurate to choose one close by, I use the local weather bureau's.

[bevills1]

I installed Alfaclock on 1 system, and I'm going to try either NetTime from sourceforge or Dimension4 from thinkman on the other to compare which works best or which is easier to use. Swittime appears to do only a once per 24 hour sync which may be insufficient since my systems gain several seconds in that period of time.

Dimension4 interests me in particular since the link says it's recommended by Leo LaPorte from TheScreenSavers which should have never been dropped by G4TV. It's interesting the sourceforge link says not to use the net time built into Windows because the project was abandoned, and time servers it uses are very old.

[gadgetguy]

The link I gave to sourceforge has a PDF that explains how to use the built in net time. They explain that the built in process makes their NetTime program redundant and worthless (even though it was free) and they decided to stop development.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Win2K comes with time synchronization capability (the W32Time service). Have a read of this:

http://www.atomictimeclock.com/w32time.php

[TJohns]

I think this is what you want:

What time server are you using?
NET TIME /QUERYSNTP

Select a new time server
NET TIME /SETSNTPool.ntp.org

[AlanHK]

The link I gave to sourceforge has a PDF that explains how to use the built in net time. They explain that the built in process makes their NetTime program redundant and worthless (even though it was free) and they decided to stop development.

If you have XP, you don't need it. The basic settings by clicking on the "Internet time" tab on the clock in the tray, and some more settings (eg, how often to check) can be found in the registry. That's what I use on my laptops (especially one with a dead CMOS battery that boots up with the time in 2001).

Since not many of us are running Win2k these days, there isn't much of demand, but for us it certainly is not "worthless" to use that or a similar utility. Especially since they're free, and give a simple interface to functions otherwise requiring obscure command line settings -- and I speak as an old Unix and DOS user, who writes batch files every day.
Dimension4 is only 200k, and you can install it in minutes and then forget it.

[AlanHK]

I installed Alfaclock on 1 system, and I'm going to try either NetTime from sourceforge or Dimension4 from thinkman on the other to compare which works best or which is easier to use. Swittime appears to do only a once per 24 hour sync which may be insufficient since my systems gain several seconds in that period of time.

Dimension4 interests me in particular since the link says it's recommended by Leo LaPorte from TheScreenSavers which should have never been dropped by G4TV. It's interesting the sourceforge link says not to use the net time built into Windows because the project was abandoned, and time servers it uses are very old.

switime: best run from a batch file, if you have some scheduling utlity.
Dimension4: you can set it to sync every x minutes if you want.

nettime: the program is okay, but you need to find the time server yourself.
As I said earlier, look for one locally: Google "SNTP server + "Your city name".
Your ISP may have or recommend one.

Or see http://www.pool.ntp.org/en/use.html, though the pool.ntp.org list is not comprehensive, the ones it does have are live.

[JohnnyMalaria]

For Windows, just use time.microsoft.com

[gadgetguy]

The link I gave to sourceforge has a PDF that explains how to use the built in net time. They explain that the built in process makes their NetTime program redundant and worthless (even though it was free) and they decided to stop development.

If you have XP, you don't need it. The basic settings by clicking on the "Internet time" tab on the clock in the tray, and some more settings (eg, how often to check) can be found in the registry. That's what I use on my laptops (especially one with a dead CMOS battery that boots up with the time in 2001).

True, but the OP specifically asked about Win2k.

Since not many of us are running Win2k these days, there isn't much of demand, but for us it certainly is not "worthless" to use that or a similar utility. Especially since they're free, and give a simple interface to functions otherwise requiring obscure command line settings -- and I speak as an old Unix and DOS user, who writes batch files every day.

It is the author's assessment, not mine. From the site that I linked to:

Note that Windows XP and Windows 2000 include a full-featured NTP client out of the box, and it's a free download from Microsoft for Windows NT. There is longer any no good reason to use NetTime on Windows NT, 2000 or XP.

[bevills1]

The 2 commands suggested by TJohns give message "Command Completed Successfully" but nothing else. I don't know what these do or whether they correct any problems.

The http://www.atomictimeclock.com/w32time.php link is either incorrect or out dated because there's no Internet Time tab in Date and Time in Control Panel, and I'm not a member of a domain.

If Alfaclock and Dimension4 both work correctly, Dimension4 appears the best option for my circumstance because it allows choice to sync every few minutes while Alfaclock has hourly as the most frequent sync choice. Alfaclock also has the nag screen if you use the free version, and Dimension4 has choice of many different time servers. I chose the weather channel since it is close to me.

[AlanHK]

The link I gave to sourceforge has a PDF that explains how to use the built in net time. They explain that the built in process makes their NetTime program redundant and worthless (even though it was free) and they decided to stop development.

If you have XP, you don't need it. The basic settings by clicking on the "Internet time" tab on the clock in the tray, and some more settings (eg, how often to check) can be found in the registry. That's what I use on my laptops (especially one with a dead CMOS battery that boots up with the time in 2001).

True, but the OP specifically asked about Win2k.

I was commenting that while one might say NetTime was redundant for XP, it is not for 2k.

Since not many of us are running Win2k these days, there isn't much of demand, but for us it certainly is not "worthless" to use that or a similar utility. Especially since they're free, and give a simple interface to functions otherwise requiring obscure command line settings -- and I speak as an old Unix and DOS user, who writes batch files every day.

It is the author's assessment, not mine. From the site that I linked to:

Note that Windows XP and Windows 2000 include a full-featured NTP client out of the box, and it's a free download from Microsoft for Windows NT. There is longer any no good reason to use NetTime on Windows NT, 2000 or XP.

And it is my assessment that the client in Win2k is certainly not "full featured out of the box".
Its features are obscure, and meant for systems administrators, not end users.
I couldn't get the damn thing working. Could you?

[AlanHK]

For Windows, just use time.microsoft.com

If you live in Seattle.
Otherwise, you'll get a lag. (I'm 10,000 km away from Seattle, by the way.)
If you're going to the trouble of syncing, why not be exact?
And there is happily no Windows/Unix/Mac difference between time servers.
They all work on the same protocols.

[AlanHK]

The http://www.atomictimeclock.com/w32time.php link is either incorrect or out dated because there's no Internet Time tab in Date and Time in Control Panel, and I'm not a member of a domain.

That tab is in the XP version, not 2k.

Dimension4 has choice of many different time servers. I chose the weather channel since it is close to me.

Note you can add any servers you like to its list.

[gadgetguy]

I couldn't get the damn thing working. Could you?

Yes, I have it running on all three of my Win2k computers and I installed it on my NT4 computer and have it running there as well. I just followed the directions in the pdf from the site that I linked to and it works great. However, I only have one of the computers syncing off of an atomic clock and the others syncing off of it. I found those directions easier to follow than the Daylight Savings Time adjustment patch from Microsoft.

[JohnnyMalaria]

For Windows, just use time.microsoft.com

If you live in Seattle.
Otherwise, you'll get a lag. (I'm 10,000 km away from Seattle, by the way.)
If you're going to the trouble of syncing, why not be exact?
And there is happily no Windows/Unix/Mac difference between time servers.
They all work on the same protocols.

You'll get a lag even if you live next door to Microsoft. It typically takes 70ms or so to get to my ISP. >100ms to get to weather.com. 150ms to get to MS in Seattle.

I don't get it - why on earth would you want to try to keep your computer sync'd to a billionth-of-second clock using the internet? Accuracy to a second is good enough especially for home use. Precision to nanoseconds is baffling and meaningless. If you really want 'atomic' accuracy, get a GPS unit and sync from that.

Well, I see it's 4:33:04.345344353453235234 so my tea beckons

[AlanHK]

I couldn't get the damn thing working. Could you?

Yes, I have it running on all three of my Win2k computers and I installed it on my NT4 computer and have it running there as well. I just followed the directions in the pdf from the site that I linked to and it works great. However, I only have one of the computers syncing off of an atomic clock and the others syncing off of it. I found those directions easier to follow than the Daylight Savings Time adjustment patch from Microsoft.

I stand corrected.

However, I didn't come across that or a similar explanation when I was trying to do it, and the built in help of course offers no clue about this. (Yes, if you type "net help time" you get something, but that's using hindsight.)

But I'm happy with Dimension4. It is a lot easier to work out what it's doing. I can find, for instance, no way to tell if, when or by how much corrections are made by the "net time" method. (Dimension4 has a nice graphical history of corrections.) Though I'm sure that's explained somewhere, in a footnote on page 984 of a Microsoft SDK document, or perhaps in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard".

[AlanHK]

I don't get it - why on earth would you want to try to keep your computer sync'd to a billionth-of-second clock using the internet? Accuracy to a second is good enough especially for home use. Precision to nanoseconds is baffling and meaningless.

If there was no other option, it would do.
But why not choose a closer server? It's no harder, and in fact more reliable, for me to sync with the local observatory than the Borg HQ.

I just tried "time.microsoft.com" and it ... timed out.
Apparently it can be flakey, see e.g.:

http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=5866
Microsoft Time Sync Appears to Down
Published: 2009-02-14,
Last Updated: 2009-02-14 23:58:25 UTC
by Deborah Hale (Version: 1)

We have received several reports today of Microsoft's Time Server being unreachable at time.microsoft.com. I checked at my location and it is indeed unreachable from Iowa.

And a long thread of bitching about it at this MS forum.

If you want a universal, reliable, default, try pool.ntp.org. It'll connect you to a random, but probably nearby, verified server. Or tick.usno.navy.mil is unlikely to go down.

It was more your remark that "For Windows, just use time.microsoft.com" that surprised me. Why "For Windows"?
"time.apple.com" works just as well (actually, better, since MS is off the air at the moment, for me at least). For once, Microsoft seems to support a neutral standard, though their servers aren't up to the task of providing it.

[SLK001]

I use Alfaclock because it allows me to display the time in the icon tray with "seconds", ie, 10:34:59.

Yes, Alfaclock is going through its "nag-screen" time-of-the-year. Their free version used to have a one year shelf life, after which you had to download another free version. They have switched to a "more convenient" 6 month life, which they don't seem to be able to support by having the new version out by the time the older version expires. I guess that this is their way of building customer satisfaction and instilling customer loyalty by irritating the hell out of an installed user base. Once a newer version is installed, the nag screen goes away.

True, Alfaclock will update the time hourly at the shortest increment. I have my computers set to update the time at every logon. I also only use the NIST or NAVY time servers and I never have any issues with these servers being down. But then, I have nothing that requires the time down to the nearest microsecond.

[AlanHK]

I use Alfaclock because it allows me to display the time in the icon tray with "seconds", ie, 10:34:59.

Yes, Alfaclock is going through its "nag-screen" time-of-the-year.

Ran into an interesting story when looking that up.
Read http://aram.dcmembers.com/software/betaclock/
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.comp.freeware/browse_thread/thread/6eac2505d4f990d0

If that's true, you have the bootleg.
Try Betaclock at http://www.alfaclock.com/default.html

[bevills1]

Alfaclock failed to work for me. It was installed Saturday, and PC clock was 15 seconds fast Monday morning even after the PC was running nearly 2 hours. I also had a little problem uninstalling Alfaclock because it kept stating it could not uninstall because Alfaclock was running, and it continued giving same message even after I selected "End Program" in Task Manager. I was finally able to uninstall it by booting to safe mode.

Around 9:30 AM I installed Dimension4, and it showed clock was rest by 2.079 seconds at 12:27 and showed clock was reset by 0.327 seconds again at 1:08 PM when I checked again. Finally I found something that works, and I like the Dimension4 features and interface better.

[Midzuki]

Around 9:30 AM I installed Dimension4, and it showed clock was rest by 2.079 seconds at 12:27 and showed clock was reset by 0.327 seconds again at 1:08 PM when I checked again.

That's too much. The motherboard needs a new clock circuit
(or a new crystal at least ).


//////

[bevills1]

If the problem were on a single system, I might think that's a possibility, but the same problem occurs on 2 different systems, 1 with VIA chipset and the other with NVidia chipset. I also have 2 LiteOn LVW-5005 DVD recorders that gain a couple of minutes in 3 or 4 weeks. That's 4 different devices all consistently gaining time! Oddly clock radio keeps perfect time though.