The Mummy - How to get the forced subtitles

[Mascot]

(Title changed to something more accurate. Ignore the bits about the unknown track, it was a red herring)

When loading the m2ts I get the "some tracks not recognized" error. Demuxing video and audio is no problem, and I get a billion PGS tracks if I want them. The problem is that I cannot find a PGS with only subtitles for non-english bits.

Naturally, I suspect that's exactly the track causing the error. I've tried hunting around for alternatives to extract the PGS tracks, but every lead I follow ends up back with Tsmuxer.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[wulf109]

Try TSremux 212

[Mascot]

Thanks for the suggestion.

Unfortunately, the unrecognized track isn't a sub track according to TsRemux. It lists it as "Unknown stream of type SECONDARY_AUDIO_DTS_HD".

I'm stumped as to where the forced subtitles are coming from. Is there new tech in Blu-ray to only show some of the subs from a PGS, so that it might in fact be using the full English subs as source?

[GeeForce11]

Most probably the unrecognized streams are DTS-Express audio tracks that are ignored by TSmuxeR. You can view them with eac3to and demux whichever you want with eac3to.

[Mascot]

Only reason I cared about the unrecognized track was that I thought it might be the forced subtitles. Since it's not, it's irrelevant to me.

What I'm missing are subtitles for just the non-english spoken parts. I know they're there, somehow, because they work in PowerDVD.

[GeeForce11]

The forced subtitles (non english spoken parts) should be included in the video stream. I don't know about having a separate pgs subtitle stream in the m2ts only for this. In case there's such a subtitle stream, demux all the english subtitles and check if one of them is really short, because that must be it then.

[Mascot]

I'll verify when I get home from work. If it turns out you are right, I must have been blind. Cause the reason I started hunting for them in the first place was that they were missing from the dialog in the opening scenes. I remember wondering if this shouldn't be subtitled, then going to PowerDVD and verifying that it was subtitled there.

I have demuxed and manually verified every single subtitle, none of them are it.

[Mascot]

I've done some more testing. It is most definitely not hard coded into the video. If I switch to a different subtitle, the English one is no longer visible, which would obviously not be the case if it was coded into the video. If I watch the m2ts directly, it's also not present.

In PowerDVD, if I pop up the right click menu and go to subtitles, I see a bunch of greyed out ones beneath the regular ones. The English of those greyed out ones is marked by default (when the non-english spoken parts are properly subtitled). I cannot select any of these manually.

My guess is that Blu-ray has support for marking parts of subtitles as "forced", so that it can use the same actual subtitle stream for both complete and partial subtitling.

I guess I'm out of luck

[GeeForce11]

Check all the available streams with eac3to, maybe you'll see what you're looking for and you can demux it.
Try "eac3to BD_FOLDER" and also "eac3to xxxxx.m2ts"

[Mascot]

Thanks for the tip. I didn't think of eac3to since I've never used it for demuxing.

With the exception of properly recognizing the DTS Express stream that tsmuxer threw an error on, it shows the same streams though.

If my guess is correct, the information about which bits of the subtitle is for "non english spoken parts" is embedded in the main English track. If so, there'll be no way to get at them apart from an updated supread I suspect.

[GeeForce11]

I don't know the details how the forced subtitles work in a BD movie for the non english parts if it's not included in the video stream, so it's a mystery for me, specially that i checked my backup of "Bangkock Dangerous", it's encoded to .avi, no subtitles were demuxed from the original m2ts before encoding, only the video stream and master audio were encoded and the forced subtitles are there for the non english spoken parts, so it must of been included in the video stream in my case.

[Mascot]

Beats me. I'll just keep fingers crossed somebody in the know stumbles across this thread I guess.

I don't have a stand-alone Blu-ray player (they don't seem to be easily made region free like DVD players), so I rather depend on being able to remux my movies into something my Tvix will play. Until I figure this out I'll have to remember to steer clear of titles with non english parts.

[GeeForce11]

Or you could just use the full english subtitles until it gets figured out.

Try to encode the movie after this guide for example and see the results.

https://forum.videohelp.com/topic361585.html

PS: maybe you should change the title of the thread to something with "forced subtitles".

[Mascot]

Oh, good idea. Title changed.

Yes, I could use the full subtitles. But I find it so incredibly distracting to have subtitles on a movie where I understand the spoken language, that I'd rather just not watch it or watch it without subtitles at all in that case.

As for the guide link, I don't want to re-encode the movie. My player can handle the video unmodified so there's no reason to transcode it to something else.

I did read the bits about subtitles in the guide, just in case, but it said nothing I didn't already know.

[sojourner353]

Hi Mascot,

Just signed up as I too am just having these issues with this BD Movie.

I agree with you, I believe there is a technology on the disc that uses the full set to force unspoken English only, figured this out from the greyed out ones also before reading the post.

What we need is a application that can tell us where this info is so you can see when the forced subtitles are meant to be displayed and using suprip on the full set you can remove the ones you don’t need keeping the forced ones, quite a bit of work but not everything is meant to be easy.

Kevin

[Mascot]

Suprip doesn't seem to be open source, but its web page does contain at least partial documentation of the sup file format. If our guess is correct, then it ought to be as simple as a flag to indicate whether to display when in forced-only mode.

I'm away on vacation currently, but when I get home I think I'll try to get in touch with the Suprip author. If anybody can peek at some Mummy sups and see if there's an obvious flag associated with the forced subs it ought to be him/her. Since the movie pretty much starts out with a bunch of them they're easy to identify as well.

[sojourner353]

I am going to recreate the forced set into a srt file from the sup file using suprip.

Watched the movie today and noted where the forced ones are, there isnt that many of them so should not be to hard to do.

This is the only BD movie I seen with this so far so it might be rare, still would be nice to figure out how its done.

[Nelson37]

I am going on memory here but am pretty sure that "forced subtitles" on DVD are sometimes encoded into the video, but also sometimes use a temporary "subtitle ON" flag for these situations.

It looks like you are on the right approach, you might want to send your finished file up to one of the subtitle storage sites for others to use.

[sojourner353]

I have found the triggers (at least I think I have), they are before the forced subs are shown, found them in the converted srt file I created with suprip, the triggers are contained in brackets and show the time to start and finish for each forced sub, in some cases the time spans 5 sets and in others just 1 or 2, very simple system really.

I guess now someone might be able to write a program that sees these triggers inside a srt or sup file and can somehow strip out the necessary forced ones, I did notice when using the suprip ocr to correct the unknown text the triggers were not shown, only when I viewed the created srt were they seen.

I have created a forced English srt set for this BD, it consists of 40 subs and I am currently burning them directly onto the Video using ripbot, once finished I will remux the HD Audio back in with tsmuxer and try it out and pass on the results.

Just one more thing, where can I find these subtitle storage sites you mentioned? Cheers.

[Mascot]

I'm missing something. How exactly do you mean the information in the brackets differ to indicate whether the sub is supposed to be forced or not? I assume very sub, forced or not, contains on/off time information.

If the information is indeed recorded in the srt by suprip already, it should be a few minutes of coding to parse out just those to a forced-only file.