Verbatim DVDs with very high PI error/failure rates at the end of discs

[inoueto]

I have Pioneer DVR-115 drive & burned most of DVDs on Verbatim 16x medias. While it does not show any noticeable incompatibility issues with any devices (DVD player, PC burner, etc.), I have noticed that it always give very questionable scan results on “Nero CD-DVD speed.” While they always find no errors on “Benchmark” (speed tests) & “ScanDisc” tests, they always give very high PI error (above 16,000) & PI failure (above 600) rates at the end of discs; hence, they always give “0” quality scores (just like the image I attached in below: they also give exact same results with Verbatim DVD+R medias with MCC004 codes). I tried to burn with different speeds (16x, 8x, 4x, etc) and different software (Nero, ImgBurn, etc.), but no matter with whatever combination, it always give same results.

I recently tried Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-Rs (Value line), and scans on these give far much better results (quality scores of 97-98, with very low PI error rates), however some of my DVD player doesn’t like some of the TY discs (stuttered play back, or jerky forward/backward motions).

I was just wandering if I really need to take these PI error/failure rates seriously & need to switch to TY, or if it doesn’t mean anything serious & I could stick to Verbatim for a while (--other than these scary scan results, Verbatim discs would give no problems in actual uses). With frequent sales around, Verbatim discs are much cheaper & easier to find in my area. For example, there is a sale of 25 pack Verbatim Digital Movie 8x for 4.99, and I just wandered if I should get these or not…

http://www.futureshop.ca/marketing/sale_this_week/proddetailpc.asp?sku_id=0665000FS101...on=&langid=EN#

I would appreciate it very much for any thoughts on this matter. Thanks.

[lordsmurf]

You can't scan with that drive.

[inoueto]

Dear Lordsmurf;

Thank you very much for your reply. So, what you are saying is, Pioneer drives cannot perform PI error/failure scans accurately, and I shouldn't consider these PI error/failure rates seriously (--unless discs gives errors on "Speed" test or "ScanDisc" test), is that correct?


P.S. I just found out that, as Lordsmurf said, most recent version of Nero Disc Speed cannot perform PI error/failure scans on my pioneer drive (but only older versions will do the scans).

[inoueto]

For just in case, I just bought Verbatim digital movie 8x which were on sale, and scanned the first burned DVD. It looks far much better than the ones I bought bunch two years ago (Verbatim 25 pack 16x from the year 2004-5 with the old package--seems like out sourced to Prodisc in which the inner Hub-code starting MAP...).

I know the scan on Pioneer drives won't be reliable, but it might indicate something...? I don't know...

[budz]

As LS told you PIONEER drives are not used for scanning with CD/DVD SPEED. NONE of the OLDER PIONEER drives can be used for scanning as well. You'd have to use LITEON, SAMSUNG & BENQ for quality scans. Go to CDFREAKS.COM and you can visit the forums there. They have PIONEER, SAMSUNG, LG, BENQ, LITEON & NEC forums for dvd burners. LITEON, SAMSUNG & BENQ are the only drives you can use to get quality scans. Your scans you posted don't mean anything. Do some reading/research at CDFREAKS.com. Seriously though the only time you'd do a quality scan is if the discs you're burning are having problems playing back in your standalone dvd players.

[lordsmurf]

Scans in general don't necessarily mean anything, but Pioneer probably is the least accurate of all. It's easily one of the best readers and burners, but it's not a scanner. I think you're overly worrying. Use good media, in a good drive, and make sure the data is created well (authored compliant, etc). Do surface scans and speed readers, forget the PI/PO stuff. If those are good, you're fine.

[inoueto]

Dear budz & Lordsmurf;

Thank you for your comments. Indeed, any Verbatim discs I burned had no serious troubles reading in any devices, so I shouldn’t worry too much. I tried TY, but for some reasons, I thought I still prefer using Verbatim for several reasons: #1 cost & availability; #2 I don’t like the silver thermal top of TY, which attracts dust & finger prints; #3 some player don’t like TY for some reason, etc.

Indeed, surface scan test shows no problems what-so-ever for all Verbatim medias. The Speed test showed slight preference for “digital movie 8x” over 16x older package (which showed series of small dips toward the end, while “digital movie” shows more straight curves all the way through). I might grab bunch of digital movie ones while the sale lasts .

[lordsmurf]

You've nailed TY problems down precisely. Those are all valid complaints.

[MysticE]

Dear budz & Lordsmurf;

Thank you for your comments. Indeed, any Verbatim discs I burned had no serious troubles reading in any devices, so I shouldn’t worry too much. I tried TY, but for some reasons, I thought I still prefer using Verbatim for several reasons: #1 cost & availability; #2 I don’t like the silver thermal top of TY, which attracts dust & finger prints; #3 some player don’t like TY for some reason, etc...

Ah but Pioneer and Taiyo Yuden are such a perfect match. I'm a TYG02 (8X -R) fan. The many online merchants always have deals on them.

My 115D burns them so well (actually so does my Optiarc 7200).

Here's some TYG02 (8X) burned at 12X (scanned in my BenQ),





Here's a 'Value Line' TYG03 (16X) burned at 20X in the Pioneer (scanned in the Optiarc).



Got no beef with the Verbs, but I can always get the TYG02s cheaper.

To the OP a clean Nero 'Transfer Rate Test' is usually a good indicator of burn quality.

[LCSHG]

Inoueto

lordsmurf said
‘I think you're overly worrying Use good media, in a good drive, and make sure the data is created well"

An old saying
“If it ain’t broke don’t Fix It’

As to NERO I don’t think much of it or its tests.. I did use its full erase [it was free and did ok] in an older version some 3 years ago.

[MysticE]

Inoueto

lordsmurf said
‘I think you're overly worrying Use good media, in a good drive, and make sure the data is created well"

An old saying
“If it ain’t broke don’t Fix It’

As to NERO I don’t think much of it or its tests.. I did use its full erase [it was free and did ok] in an older version some 3 years ago.

Well how would you know if it's broke???

Here's a CDFeaks editors choice burner with highly regarded Taiyo Yuden discs burned at 4X, probably following some other vague generalization of slower burning speeds are better:



I can see the head scratching now, what the heck happened? Good media, good burner, slow burn speed. The results at 12X though are very good. But without some tests, with Nero (you don't even have to do them yourself, there are thousands at CDFreaks) the burner or the media would be blamed for what is operator error.