Codec (Cedocida) Questions

[Bob Carruth]

I'm so new to digital video editing that I still don't know if I'm asking the right questions.

While searching the Internet for possible solutions to my capture problem described in the first post in this thread:

http://muvipix.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4777

I found the LAST post in this thread:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/archive-dv-on-computer-t363138.html

I've been able to improve the video somewhat using VirtualDub filters but it's still a long way from the quality of what I get from an S-Video connection of my Sony DCR-TRV510 to my Sony KDL-40V4100 TV. Whether the source is HI 8 or Digital 8 the results rival standard commercial DVDs.

It would seem that I should try Cedocida but on the author's site I found this statement: "Your actual DV-Codec will be replaced by this one."

I'm always afraid to make changes if I don't understand how to reverse them.

Two Questions:

1. Have I found a logical course of action to try in the Archive post above or am I misunderstanding?

2. How do I get back to my current DV-Codec if need be?

Thank you.

[poisondeathray]

I can help answer #2: You can change the merit of the dv decoder (or any type of video decoder for directshow) in an application like radlight filter manager, or graphstudio. (all this does is select the priority of which decoder is selected first, you can unregister it, or make it higher priority for example. I may choose to use mainconcept's dv decoder tomorrow, or cedocida today, or ffdshow the next day...etc...). Virtualdub uses the vfw system, not the directshow system, so you need a vfw variant for the decoder if you are going to use vdub

[jagabo]

1) Yes, using Cedocida's [0-255]->[0-255] YUV->RGB option will allow you to recover dark and light portions of the video that would normally be obliterated by VirtualDub.

2) You can just uninstall Cedocida if you no longer need it. Whatever you do, don't use Panasonic DV codec.

But I don't think the problem you are having is related to this. Video normally looks drab on a computer monitor because computer monitors use very different gamma curves than televisions. If you final display device is going to be a TV you should not adjust the video to look good on a computer monitor -- unless you have calibrated your monitor to look like a TV (in which case everything else on the Desktop will look like crap).

[filmboss80]

Here's a very simple tool that will enable and disable codecs of choice, so that you won't have a codec conflict:

https://www.videohelp.com/tools/VCSwap

[rcubed]

@filmboss80
Good call. You beat me to the punch. That program is really helpful. I use it all the time. I recommend it also.

rcubed

[Bob Carruth]

Should never post a question when I know I'll be away for a while.

I should have mentioned that I did find VCSwap but I have no idea which of the 13 codecs it lists is the current one. Do radlight filter manager and/or graphstudio identify that? I'll give them a try. GSpot identifies the codec as "dvsd - DVC/DV Video" but that is not one of the 13. Is GSpot only for display codecs?

jagabo: I wasn't very clear in my post over at muvipix. The left screen shot is also a very close approximation of what makes it to the TV. Though not in that example all my whites are blown out after capture but not directly from the camcorder. I've created DVD RWs using Win Movie Maker, Premiere Elements 3, and Nero Vision and all are about the same.

(And I thought Photoshop Elements was a big learning curve.)

Thanks everyone.

[poisondeathray]

Yes, graphstudio identifies the current directshow decoder for playback, just render the video with graphstudio. You can change the merit or unregister the decoder within graphstudio, or use another program

[jagabo]

If your existing DV decoder outputs YUV you can convert it to RGB using the same matrix as Cedocida in AviSynth. Then open the AviSynth sript in VirtualDub. Your script will look like:

AviSource("filename.avi") #uses VFW decoder
ConvertToRGB(matrix="PC.601")

or

DirectShowSource("filename.avi") #uses DirectShow decoder
ConvertToRGB(matrix="PC.601")

Note that Cedocida is a VFW codec, not a DirectShow codec. Only VFW based programs will use it. All media players I know of use DirectShow.

[Bob Carruth]

Boy did I misunderstand the whole Camcorder to DVD process. I thought that the "capture" process was where the correction should/could be made.

If I had found "DV capturing FAQ and myth guide" before last night I would have saved a lot of wasted effort. No wonder every capture program I tried came out the same.

Just to be sure this is my understanding now:

All that capturing does is take the digital data and put it into an AVI container so that it can then be processed further either through various conversions or directly by one of the editors (WMM, PREL, etc). If I need to correct I take the captured file through one of the methods mentioned above.

Please correct me if I'm even a little bit wrong or have missed a step.

Just to satisfy my curiosity what, if any, role does VFW play in the process?

And finally, for this post anyway, how can I find out if what I have is YUV?

Thanks for all the help.

[jagabo]

DV capturing... All that capturing does is take the digital data and put it into an AVI container

Exactly. (Though there are some capture programs that can do some processing while capturing. They will decompress the DV stream, do their processing, then recompress as DV, MPEG, or whatever.)

If I need to correct I take the captured file through one of the methods mentioned above.

Yes.

Just to satisfy my curiosity what, if any, role does VFW play in the process?

There are two video systems in Windows: VFW and DirectShow. VFW is old and deprecated by Microsoft. There are still many programs that use it though. DirectShow is newer and more flexible. Generally, software is written to use one or the other. If you are using a VFW based editor you need VFW codecs. VirtualDub uses VFW.

And finally, for this post anyway, how can I find out if what I have is YUV?

DV is YUV internally. The question is what does the DV decoder output. As you've seen Cedocida can output YUV or RGB. You can force it to use one or the other, or to negotiate with the editor for what the editor prefers. Panasonic DV Codec, in addtion to several bugs) only outputs RGB and only after a contrast expansion that loses blacks below IRE 0 and brights above IRE 100. Microsoft's DV decoder can output either YUV or RGB -- whichever the editor prefers.

If VirtualDub receives YUV from the DV decoder (or is using its internal DV decoder) the same loss of blacks and brights will occur when it converts to RGB for filtering. Having Cedocida do the conversion to RGB lets you specify whether that contrast expansion should occur.

This problem comes about because in YUV video black is at Y=16 and full bright at Y=235. But on computers black is RGB=0 and white at RGB=255. So most programs stretch the contrast from Y=16-235 to RGB=0-255. They will then compress the range on conversion back to YUV.

[Bob Carruth]

jagabo:

Your patience and guidance worked wonders. I was at the point where I was going to chuck the whole project and just run the camcorder till it died.

Rather than strain my 74 year old brain with learning avisynth right now I followed your instructions for Cedocida from the archive mentioned above. That brought back all the lost detail and cleared the "muddiness". I then added the filters I had used before. Went a bit overboard with color but that will be easy to back off. (Monitor calibration vs TV as you explained.)

The impressive thing about this approach is that it appears to handle broad variations of light and shadow so I won't have to customize each scene. And none of my whites are blown so far.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! (My wife thanks you, too. She really wants access to our memories.)

Next up: Super 8 film to DV-AVI (or, at least, Digital 8 tape) if I can find the right lab.

[jagabo]

I'm glad to hear you got it all worked out. Enjoy your videos!