existing antenna or buy new for digital - information OVERLOAD

[pos1]

I do as much research on everything as anybody out there, so let me prefice this by saying I've done a ton of investigating. The more I read, the more confused I get. I'm an engineer, so I really feel sorry for non-techie types. I've been to antennaweb.org, tvfools.com and hdtvantennalabs.com to get info. I apologize for the amount of info I'm about to dump on you, but as I said, I've looked into this alot trying to figure out an answer on my own.

I only get OTA signals. No plans ever for cable, etc. Coverter boxes are installed and working.

Live 33 miles from all station towers at 66 degrees (I'm in the Minneapolis, MN area).

I have an antenna in the attic (split-level) that came with the house, so it's at least 13 years old. I have an old amplified 1-to-4 splitter feeding 3 TVs. I suspect it's UHF and VHF (doesn't it need to be if I was successfully picking up all analog channels, ableit the higher channels 23 and 29 were snowy, 45 would barely come in?).

I have a single channel, ABC, that I can only get randomly (either it comes in or I get No Signal). When I check the signal strength, the best I can get is 13%. Most other channels show about 33%. I went in the attic last weekend to point my antenna at 66 degrees...didn't seem to help (and surprisingly found an antenna laying up there not connected to anything!?!). At times, I do get pixelation on other channels.

Antennaweb.org says a 1 digital channel in RED, lots in BLUE and 2 in VIOLET.

I emailed the local station and they responded indicating they're higher in the UHF band (at ch. 50), so more difficult for me to pick up.

So, finally, to my point. There are multiple possible solutions, but I'd rather not do the buy-and-bring-back cycle multiple times if I don't need to (especially considering I buy online for most everything). Here are possible options. I'd REALLY appreciate input on which is the best option. Feel free to add one I don't know about.

-do I need to replace my existing antenna (info from colors says to buy Winegard HD 7084P w/ Winegard AP 8780 preamplifier)
- if so, is there a decent internal antenna I can put in the attic that would work? This is definitely my choice for aesthetics and ease-of-set up (just replace existing antenna and plug it in).

- what about adding another amplifer closer to the antenna? If so, what would do suggest. I don't know what power is available in the attic.

- What about smaller, inexpensive internal antennas on each TV? I could hide them behind the TV. I'd then disconnect the attic antenna altogether.

Again, thanks for your time.

[redwudz]

I would go with a upgraded attic antenna and a amplifier at the antenna. There is always power up there somewhere in a attic. You may be able to tap into a existing junction box. You can use a extender on a standard 4x4 junction box. (They look like a 4X4 box with the bottom missing. Then you add a metal cover with a outlet cutout. These are available at most well stocked hardware stores. You might also check the quality of your existing coax and upgrade to RG-6 if it's isn't already. If you need splitters, use them downstairs to distribute the amplified signal to the TVs.

Most boom antennas come folded, so you may be able to get quite a large one into your attic. Larger is almost always better in weak signal areas. The amplifier is more for boosting up the antenna signal for transmission/splitting. It may amplify a weak antenna signal but it will do the same with noise.

EDIT: I see the box size for the antenna you listed is:

Box size: 104¾ x 6½ x 6½

If that will fit through your attic access, you should be good to go.

And welcome to our forums.

[lordsmurf]

I vote new

[Dark Mirage]

There is a site with considerable discussion of OTA reception of digital tv and antennas. Lots of useful information, including instruction on building your own, very effective antenna.

www.digitalhome.ca

Find the forum, then look for the OTA area and antenna research discussions.

This is a friendly, helpful group. You can find plenty of diagrams and photos of homebuilt antennas that perform as well or better than commercial models. Highly recommended!

[Dark Mirage]

Antennaweb.org says a 1 digital channel in RED, lots in BLUE and 2 in VIOLET.

I recommend a visit to www.tvfool.com for information more detailed and useful than antennaweb. TVfool will show directions of stations relative to your location, and show the real channels they are broadcasting on now.

Very useful.

The same site also has contour maps useful for areas that are not tabletop flat.

Good luck!

[trhouse]

I just went through all this at my parents house which is 44 miles from the transmission towers. We used a standard UHF loop antenna as reference and compared to the existing VHF/UHF antenna they had in the attic, we built a four element bowtie UHF antenna, and we bought some commercial antennas from Walmart.

The UHF bowtie outperformed the loop by a lot and the attic antenna as well but it was quite directional and did not match the performance of the Philips MANT940 powered indoor/outdoor antenna from Walmart for about $40. The MANT940 is a very unusual looking antenna so I do not believe it is designed in the tradition of yagi type antennas. It derives it power for the 18 dB gain amplifier by feeding DC up the center of the coax cable so there is no separate power line. At my parents house, the MANT940 is not even in the attic. It sits behind the TV about level with the top of the TV.

The MANT940 picked up more stations and it was less directional meaning that they could get all the stations they wanted without moving it.

Now the bad news. We had to buy three of them to get one that worked. The first one had a dead amplifier. The second one had an open circuit in the coax so DC power never reached the amplifier. The third was a charm. It would be hard to suggest buying it online given the number of failures.

[Dark Mirage]

I just went through all this at my parents house which is 44 miles from the transmission towers. We used a standard UHF loop antenna as reference and compared to the existing VHF/UHF antenna they had in the attic, we built a four element bowtie UHF antenna, and we bought some commercial antennas from Walmart.

The UHF bowtie outperformed the loop by a lot and the attic antenna as well but it was quite directional and did not match the performance of the Philips MANT940 powered indoor/outdoor antenna from Walmart for about $40. The MANT940 is a very unusual looking antenna so I do not believe it is designed in the tradition of yagi type antennas. It derives it power for the 18 dB gain amplifier by feeding DC up the center of the coax cable so there is no separate power line. At my parents house, the MANT940 is not even in the attic. It sits behind the TV about level with the top of the TV.

The MANT940 picked up more stations and it was less directional meaning that they could get all the stations they wanted without moving it.

Now the bad news. We had to buy three of them to get one that worked. The first one had a dead amplifier. The second one had an open circuit in the coax so DC power never reached the amplifier. The third was a charm. It would be hard to suggest buying it online given the number of failures.

Some stations will still be broadcasting on channels 7-13 after the changeover, so each location should be checked. UHF reception alone may not solve everyone's reception issues. I'm going to have 2 VHF stations after the changeover, for example, even though the digital broadcasts from those stations are presently on UHF channels.

[No one said this process was simple or straightforward. It is a mess. My guess is that there are a lot of people who are having trouble setting up new digital tvs to work, because you cannot just turn them on.]

Take a look at the Gray-Hoverman antenna plans found on the digitalhome.ca forum. People are building these with great success.

[jmohn]

I don't think the age of the antenna is a problem. We're also in the fringe of the Msp/SP area (we're about 40 miles south of Shoreview). The antenna we're using is the original, non-amplified, UHF/VHF unit I installed in the attic when I built the house in 1976. I also expected I'd need to replace the antenna when we went with digital tv's but I set up the first TV, connected the coax lead from that old antenna and the TV found all the channels; that antenna is now serving 3 digital tv's with beautiful digital reception on all channels. Depending on the capability of the antenna in your attic, it may only need some careful re-aiming; of course if it was marginal 14 years ago, it's still marginal and you may be best off replacing it. I don't remember the brand of the unit I used in 1976, but it was "rated" for (IIRC) 85 mile range; the total length is about 8 feet including a (approx.) 36" UHF "bowtie" unit at the front, at it's widest the VHF elements are approx. 7' tip to tip.

Good luck with whatever you do.

[trhouse]

The Gray Hoverman antenna looks pretty large. The Philips is 5"x 10" x 1" and does the job. Here is the four element bowtie we built over the holidays. It too is pretty large.

http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/

and the Philips,

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:Philips%20MANT940%20Antenna:1994341593

$26 is a better price than we got at Walmart, ~$38.