AVI to Mpeg2 conversion

[carlmart]

Just a simple question for avisynth directories: all .dll files go in the Avisynth/Plug-ins directory, right?

[carlmart]

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)#or your favorite bobber
RePAL()

That is exactly what I should write as Avisynth script?

[manono]

What's rePAL for?

They used a PAL master for the NTSC DVD and field-blended it to go from 24.975->29.97fps. RePAL both unblends it and returns it to the source framerate of 24.975.

You can add an avisynth script on it. What I don't know is the order for them.

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
RePAL()
Crop(0,58,0,-62)
Lanczos4Resize(Width,480)

And, when doing this myself, I usually sharpen them up a bit (LimitedSharpenFaster) and boost the saturation (Tweak(Sat=1.1) or whatever) as these things usually look a bit "dull" to me.

Just a simple question for avisynth directories: all .dll files go in the Avisynth/Plug-ins directory, right?

If you want them to autoload without having specific LoadPlugin lines in your script, yes. When using Yadif you might have to use either a LoadCPlugin line or a Load_Stdcall_plugin line in the script. See the doc for instructions on its use.

[carlmart]

What's rePAL for?

They used a PAL master for the NTSC DVD and field-blended it to go from 24.975->29.97fps. RePAL both unblends it and returns it to the source framerate of 24.975.

That's very interesting. I will look for that problem on other files I get.

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
RePAL()
Crop(0,58,0,-62)
Lanczos4Resize(Width,480)

This is the script that ends up on AVStoDVD to correct to 16:9:

Video = Video.ConvertToYV12
Video = Video.Lanczos4Resize(720,480,0,66,0,-66)

Should I add your lines like this:

Video = Video.Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
Video = Video.RePAL()

In what order should they go?

What would I need the line "Crop(0,58,0,-62)" for?

And, when doing this myself, I usually sharpen them up a bit (LimitedSharpenFaster) and boost the saturation (Tweak(Sat=1.1) or whatever) as these things usually look a bit "dull" to me.

OK. Let's try it. What would the lines be and what should I have on my plug-in directory? I already have Rhsarpen.

If you want them to autoload without having specific LoadPlugin lines in your script, yes. When using Yadif you might have to use either a LoadCPlugin line or a Load_Stdcall_plugin line in the script. See the doc for instructions on its use.

Please tell me what should be where and I will do it so.

[carlmart]

Well, I went ahead and put those additional lines on the AVStoDVD script.

It got back saying there's no Yadif function.

What I wonder is which is the Avisynth directory the HCEnc inside AVStoDVD works with. Then I could put the plug ins there, I think.

[manono]

Like I said, I have no idea how Avs2DVD does things and have no desire to find out. I'm sure it's a fine program, but I have no use for it. So, I'm not going to guess how to modify the script to suit Avs2DVD.

It got back saying there's no Yadif function.

You probably have to load the .dll, as I mentioned in my (edited) post above:

LoadCPlugin("C:\Path\To\Yadif.dll")

Tweak is built into AviSynth, so nothing has to be loaded. Just read up on it to learn how to use it:

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/Tweak

One example would be:

Tweak(Sat=1.1)

as mentioned above. I already linked to LSF back on page 1. You need a bunch of .dlls and then a script line or 2:

Dull=Last
Sharp=Dull.LimitedSharpenFaster(ss_x=1.25,ss_y=1.2 5,Smode=4,strength=550,soft=30)
Soothe(Sharp,Dull,25)

would be one possible way to use it. It's usually applied at or near the end of the script. The extra stuff will help smooth out (but not eliminate) the line twitter you get from the use of bobbers.

What I wonder is which is the Avisynth directory the HCEnc inside AVStoDVD works with.

I'm sure it's the Plugins directory. I load all the DLLs in my scripts, so I don't have to worry about stuff like that.

[carlmart]

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)

What does Yadif do?


Is it Yadif or Yadifmod

[poisondeathray]

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)

What does Yadif do?


Is it Yadif or Yadifmod

the one you are using in that script is yadif

it is a deinterlacer, mode=1 is for bobbing, order=1 is for TFF

this is all explained in the documentation...

[carlmart]

the one you are using in that script is yadif

it is a deinterlacer, mode=1 is for bobbing, order=1 is for TFF

this is all explained in the documentation...

OK. Now I am getting an error message saying "yadif.dll is not an avysinth 2.5 plugin".

Is that so? What version should I use it with? 2.57?

[manono]

Did you load the plugin as explained above and in the included documentation?

[carlmart]

Did you load the plugin as explained above and in the included documentation?

OK. Now I did. I had taken the C out of LoadCplugin.

So I put it back and it worked.

What about the rePAL plug in? When I tried it alone, without the yadif, it introduced some sort of slow motion to the image. Is it necessary to use it?

[carlmart]

the one you are using in that script is yadif

it is a deinterlacer, mode=1 is for bobbing, order=1 is for TFF

this is all explained in the documentation...

The documentation reads very much like sanscrit to me, and it's very little I can get from it. E.g.: what's bobbing? what's TFF?

Sorry if my questions sound too much simple or basic.

[carlmart]

Well, just tried adding rePAL. Things definitely get jerky.

The commands I am using are:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
RePAL()

Strangely enough, using just Yadif the results were very similar to those on manono's corrected sample.

[manono]

Bobbing is when you take a field and resize it to that of the source video. A 720x480 video can create 2 fields for each frame, and runs at 59.94fps at 720x240. When bobbed you get 720x480 again, still at 59.94fps. TFF means Top Field First (Order=1 in Yadif). It was Order=1 for your sample. If it plays jerky, maybe the main uncut video is BFF (Bottom Field First). Open the VOBs in DGIndex and run the Preview to check on the field order. Maybe try:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=0)
RePAL()

to see if it plays any more smoothly.

Strangely enough, using just Yadif the results were very similar to those on manono's corrected sample.

Nope, not even close.

[carlmart]

Bobbing is when you take a field and resize it to that of the source video. A 720x480 video can create 2 fields for each frame, and runs at 59.94fps at 720x240. When bobbed you get 720x480 again, still at 59.94fps. TFF means Top Field First (Order=1 in Yadif). It was Order=1 for your sample. If it plays jerky, maybe the main uncut video is BFF (Bottom Field First). Open the VOBs in DGIndex and run the Preview to check on the field order.

It's Order=1.

The characters move like on a silent movie when I apply rePAL.

What is rePAL correcting that would improve on Yadif's?

Nope, not even close.

As you know a lot, hugely more than I do on this matters, I won't argue. But maybe I should burn the same sample you sent and the one I have here and see it on big screen. It should be a great learning. My eye is very discerning.

[manono]

The characters move like on a silent movie when I apply rePAL.

Eh? Did you encode it? Or are you just playing the script in VDub or something? Check the framerate of the script (VDub(Mod)'s File->File Information). It should be 24.975fps. If you get only half that (which could explain the silent movie remark), then you didn't bob it, but only deinterlaced it before applying RePAL. Just bobbing or deinterlacing it can't produce anywhere near the quality as a full unblending.

But maybe I should burn the same sample you sent and the one I have here and see it on big screen.

You could upload a small piece of what you encoded so we can have a look.

[carlmart]

Timing problems: the converted film more than doubled its timing. It was 104 minutes and came out a 260 minutes film.

The script I used was:

LoadCplugin("C:\video\AviSynth 2.58\plugins\Yadif.dll")
Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
Tweak(Sat=1.1)
ConvertToYV12
Lanczos4Resize(720,480,0,66,0,-66)

Is anyone of above wrong? Which could affect the timing the way it did?

The strange thing is that in the Preview things look great and there's no timing problem.

The one I had reported was when using rePAL, which I did not use.

Weird.

[poisondeathray]

Timing problems: the converted film more than doubled its timing. It was 104 minutes and came out a 260 minutes film.

The script I used was:

LoadCplugin("C:\video\AviSynth 2.58\plugins\Yadif.dll")
Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
Tweak(Sat=1.1)
ConvertToYV12
Lanczos4Resize(720,480,0,66,0,-66)

Is anyone of above wrong? Which could affect the timing the way it did?

The strange thing is that in the Preview things look great and there's no timing problem.

The one I had reported was when using rePAL, which I did not use.

Weird.

Yadif mode=1 is a bobber, so frame rate is doubled. You didn't use repal to bring it back down. That frame rate is illegal for DVD. Use mode=0 for single rate deinterlacing, but your sample is blended so it won't look so good without deblending.

Question for manono: while the blending was easy for me to pick up, what signs were there that indicated this was originally pal master and not NTSC film? What steps did you do to determine this?

[carlmart]

Yadif mode=1 is a bobber, so frame rate is doubled. You didn't use repal to bring it back down. That frame rate is illegal for DVD. Use mode=0 for single rate deinterlacing, but your sample is blended so it won't look so good without deblending.

Then, and if my logic is not wrong, the Preview may be showing a jerky accelerated movement, but it will really compensate for the slowing down. Right?

It's worth a try though.

[manono]

By bobbing it you made it 59.94fps (check the script framerate in VDub(Mod)), but it was encoded at 23.976fps. The length increased by a factor of 2.5 and the movement is about 40% the speed it should be.

[manono]

Question for manono: while the blending was easy for me to pick up, what signs were there that indicated this was originally pal master and not NTSC film? What steps did you do to determine this?

If telecined or field-blended from a film source, when bobbed (where 1 is a unique frame and 0 a duplicate frame) it goes:

10100 10100 or, put another way: 23 23

If from a 25fps PAL source it goes:

10100 1010100 10100 1010100 or, put another way: 23 223 23 223

If you can't pick out the pattern with it still blended, bob it and then unblend the bobbed fields, like so:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
CDeblend()

and start counting. CDeblend comes included with the R_Pack (in the Old folder, if I remember correctly). Or do this:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
SRestore(FRate=29.97)

Count the interval between duplicate frames, and then figure out how it should be decimated and what the final framerate becomes after that decimation.

[carlmart]

Question for manono: while the blending was easy for me to pick up, what signs were there that indicated this was originally pal master and not NTSC film?

The original DVD I have is NTSC. But maybe they did a crooked conversion from PAL to NTSC for authoring.

Anyway, I can't get to make it convert the file if I use rePAL on the script.

[manono]

Open your script in VDub(Mod). If it opens with no error, and the framerate is 24.975fps, then next open it in the encoder of your choice (HCEnc?). Figure out the bitrate, encode it as progressive 25fps (add "AssumeFPS(25)" to the bottom of the script), don't apply pulldown, and when done take the video and run it through DGPulldown set for 24.975->29.97. Take the resulting M2V and the original demuxed AC3 audio and author it (along with any subtitles and the Celltimes.txt (chapters). Use Muxman for authoring, and afterwards put it back into the original DVD using the "Replace" button of VobBlanker. That way you get back the menus. If you have any problems along the way post the script and any error messages, or what the specific problem is.

I can't get to make it convert the file if I use rePAL on the script.

You can't make what convert it? Any error message?

[AlanHK]

Open your script in VDub(Mod). If it opens with no error, and the framerate is 24.975fps, then next open it in the encoder of your choice (HCEnc?). Figure out the bitrate, encode it as progressive 25fps (add "AssumeFPS(25)" to the bottom of the script), don't apply pulldown, and when done take the video and run it through DGPulldown set for 24.975->29.97.

Shouldn't that be 23.976?

[manono]

Shouldn't that be 23.976?

I'm assuming the script is:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
RePAL()

in which case the answer to your question is "No". He's got a PAL2NTSC conversion for DVD on his hands.

[carlmart]

Shouldn't that be 23.976?

I'm assuming the script is:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
RePAL()

in which case the answer to your question is "No". He's got a PAL2NTSC conversion for DVD on his hands.

You are assuming a thing that I think it's not. The task here was to eliminate certain artifacts that at first I thought were comb effects.

But the original source is an NTSC DVD. Perhaps you assumed it was PAL because my country is Brazil, but the Brazilian PAL system is really a modified NTSC, called PAL-M, and it's only used for broadcast transmission.

Recording and reproduction, both professional and private, is ALWAYS, without any exception NTSC.

If there were any PAL to NTSC distortions, they came with the original that was used on authoring the disc.

Isn't there anything that can be done within the NTSC world?

[carlmart]

You can't make what convert it? Any error message?

Remember I am using AVStoDVD to make this conversion. I load this script into it.

Is there a way to do it with VirtualDubMod as you suggest?

I get a log message, no error message. Inside it says:

PROCESS ABORTED DURING TITLE 1 VIDEO ENCODING OPERATIONS.

But it doesn't specify why it was aborted.

[carlmart]

OK, Manono. Let's rewind a little and go back to page 3 in this thread, where you used a certain script to convert my sample.

What was exactly the script you used, including everything you put in?

You showed this:

Yadif(Mode=1,Order=1)
RePAL()
Crop(0,58,0,-62)
Lanczos4Resize(Width,480)

Where do you load the complete script? Unfortunately HCEnc is not an option, because it seems to refuse to load on my system. That's why I went for AVStoDVD.

Perhaps through VirtualDub?

Perhaps I may directly use your path and see what happens. I am not familiar with scripts yet, so I can't go anywhere if I don't get a specific path to work with. Let's start with the original file, the one I demuxed from the DVD.

[manono]

You are assuming a thing that I think it's not. The task here was to eliminate certain artifacts that at first I thought were comb effects.

But the original source is an NTSC DVD. Perhaps you assumed it was PAL ...

I know very well what you have. I got your sample. I've worked with probably over 500 such garbage DVDs over the years. As I said before, they used a PAL master for the NTSC DVD. Inside that interlaced 29.97fps field-blended POS DVD you have is a progressive 24.975fps video crying out to be released. You're the one that asked for help. I couldn't care less about your DVD. But if you take perfectly good advice and ignore it or, worse, subvert it by doing all kinds of stupid things, like trying to encode a bobbed video for DVD, then why should I care? This thread is 4 pages and 118 posts long, and as near as I can tell you don't know any more than you did when you first posted over a week ago. You haven't learned a damned thing. OK, AviSynth isn't the easiest thing to learn, I'll grant you, but it's not exactly rocket science either. Some serious reading over the last week would have taught you at least the rudiments. If you're going to be working with DVDs like the one from which that sample was taken, then AviSynth is your only recourse. And you can't expect all-in-one programs such as Avs2DVD, as good as it is, to be able to deal with it either. You have to go the all-manual route. That reencode I made available to you? It's NTSC and ready to be authored for NTSC DVD. Why would you even think that it was PAL, or that I ever thought you were working with a PAL DVD? You said it looked good. If you ever get around to following instructions, your reencode of it can look just as good.

I'll get back to you with the full script in a while. I'm not at my encodiing computer at the moment.

[carlmart]

[quote="manono"]

I know very well what you have. I got your sample. I've worked with probably over 500 such garbage DVDs over the years. As I said before, they used a PAL master for the NTSC DVD. Inside that interlaced 29.97fps field-blended POS DVD you have is a progressive 24.975fps video crying out to be released. You're the one that asked for help. I couldn't care less about your DVD. But if you take perfectly good advice and ignore it or, worse, subvert it by doing all kinds of stupid things, like trying to encode a bobbed video for DVD, then why should I care? This thread is 4 pages and 118 posts long, and as near as I can tell you don't know any more than you did when you first posted over a week ago. You haven't learned a damned thing. OK, AviSynth isn't the easiest thing to learn, I'll grant you, but it's not exactly rocket science either. Some serious reading over the last week would have taught you at least the rudiments. I'll get back to you with the full script in a while. I'm not at my encodiing computer at the moment.

Manono,

Look. It's absolutely far, completely away from my intentions to get you upset about anything. Sorry if my misteps and my questions defy your impatience. I certainly do not wish that to be so.

I am absolutely grateful on diagnosing what my problem was and how to solve it. At the same I am trying to understand how things are, so as this is not a blind non-learning experience. I am not looking for a recipe to apply on any situation, and I will hopefully learn the mechanism and the tricks.

The 118 posts were not related with this problem, and I wonder if I shouldn't have opened another thread with a different name. It started with avi conversion to mpeg2, then went to converting letterbox 4:3 onto 16:9, then stretching the audio because of sync loss. That was related to the same film.

Then it went on to a different film with different problems. And things got complicated.

I don't think I ignored your advice: I tried to make it work with the tools I had and couldn't. Why would I ignore what you so generously were helping me with? The excellent results were there on the sample you corrected. I just couldn't make it work.

There are a lot of things I learnt in this process, though certainly not as many as I would like to or maybe you would like to. I did start reading what you call the rudiments, but it's not as easy as it may seem. Eg: I lost time because I was using "Loadplugin" instead of "LoadCplugin", because I thought the "C" had been a writing glitch.

Another thing I learnt, even if not directly related with scripts handling, was how to use them within AVStoDVD. It's a slow process but hopefully I will get there.

It would help a lot, for instance, to know how you or anyone can identify a sample, like you did, and see what you are dealing with. What do you use to diagnose that?