Knowledge and/or opinions on DVDFab and AnyDVD w/CloneDVD

[PCat]

I am attempting to backup my wife's DVD collection again (I started a few years ago but the apps and info got overwhelming looking for the "best" way to accomplish this). I believe I've narrowed my options (since DVD Decrypter and DVDShrink appear kind of out-of-date) to DVDFab5 or AnyDVD w/CloneDVD. I've been testing these apps and here is my summary...
1. I started with backing up just the main movie to HDD using both apps (Fab5 free HD Decrypter or Fab5 Platinum trial and Any/CloneDVD), the bkup sizes were exactly the same:
-> 4,042,731,520 (*used folder properties in Windows Explorer to get the Size)
2. Burning the main movie from HDD using Nero Burning ROM DVD-Video and CloneDVD produced the same size backup on DVD:
-> 4,043,300,864
3. Backing up the original movie "straight" to DVD using Fab5 Plat trial and Any/CloneDVD produced the same size DVDs:
-> 4,043,300,864
However, when I backed up the entire original movie (7,286,235136) to HDD using Fab5 Plat trial and Any/CloneDVD I got different results; both had 2 folders (VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS) but Fab5 created only 31 files, Clone had 32 files:
-> Fab5: 7,280,510,976 - Clone: 7,285,590,016
I believe with the full movie Fab5 removed more "unneeded/bad data"? Or did it remove data it believed was bad, or encoding was improper and will cause problems with my bkups (like freezing, or stuttering, or out-of-sync video/audio etc...). I'd love to use Fab5 as it's a rather all-in-one app and does have the free Decrypter but these results make me a little leery which is where I'm looking for your experience, help, opinions, comments. I don't want to watch all my bkups to verify them, just back them up and play them when we decide to watch them.
I then put a different DVD movie in, used both apps to copy to HDD and did not get the same bkup sizes this time/movie:
-> Fab5: 3,815,346,176 - Clone: 3,817,904,128
Great, there's goes the idea of "safely" backing up the main movie only.
Also I found when using Fab5 Plat trial, backing up the main movie only (no compression needed), the results above were all from when I selected DVD9 as the Quality; if you select DVD5 the folder size is smaller:
-> Fab5 DVD9: 4,043,300,864 - Fab5 DVD5: 4,042,647,552
Lastly, I also burned the first main movie from HDD to DVD using ImgBurn (another nice app) and noticed the 8 files in the bkup DVD directory were all the same size as the Fab, Clone or Nero burnt bkups but the entire bkup size on the ImgBurn DVD was a little bigger (like ImgBurn added something hidden on the disk):
-> Fab5: 4,043,300,864 - ImgBurn: 4,043,333,632
I know this is a lot of info but if someone can weed it out I'd appreciate it. I assume that some of you have run into this as well and/or have done similar tests. I really want to resolve this asap, and find the "best" app to use, I have movies to bkup. Please let me know if this post should be posted in some other area. And thanks in advance for your reply...Kevin

[Dv8ted2]

You are placing way too much thought into this. The reason the files are the same size is that the movie is a given size, unless you shrink it down. The difference between the two is anydvd decrypts the disc automatically in the background. To you, it appears as an unencrypted disc. Dvdfab, you would need to rip the disc first.

[bbanderic]

I think both DVDFab 5 and AnyDVD both perform equally as well for DVD, you really can't go wrong with either one. However, DVD Fab is MUCH cheaper. You can use the free version, DVDFab HD Decrypter, along with DVD Shrink (if needed)(free) and ImgBurn (free) and it'll do everything DVDFab 5 (pay version) and AnyDVD/Clone DVD will do. The only way I could justify paying for AnyDVD would be if I wanted to backup Blu-ray disc.

I recommend that you rip your DVD's in FULL DISC mode first, then run the files through DVD Shrink to strip out the main movie. Many have posted here that you'll get less problem backups that way. In my experience, I would agree.

[PCat]

Thanks for the replies! I believe I am putting way too much into this; I just don't want to waste time and money making "poor" or useless backups (and won't know until I grab one to watch). As I pointed out, DVDFab and Any/CloneDVD created same size VIDEO_TS folders for the same movie I first tested but different sizes for another movie, and both were always different when copying the entire movie, any movie. Also, I noticed CloneDVD shrinks the entire movie I was testing about 58% where DVDFab was a little less compressed at 61%; both appearred to be pretty darn clear, couldn't really see a difference in a still shot of each compared to the original. I did the same test a couple weeks ago with DVDShrink and that screen shot looked a little less clear than the original, another reason I was steering clear of DVDShrink. I'm now leaning towards buring the entire movie (w/English audio and subtitles only + all extras) with DVDFab (possibly forking out the bucks).
bbanderic,
You recommend that I rip my DVD's in FULL DISC mode first w/Fab HD Decrypter, then run the files through DVD Shrink to strip out the main movie. You also mentioned ImgBurn so should I turn off the option to use Nero with DVDShrink and "manually" burn w/ImgBurn? Also, what do you think about buring/backing up the entire movie at around 60% or so compressed? I think I had another question but forgot it... too much thinking! Thanks again.

[Dv8ted2]

As different movies are different lengths and are encoded at different bitrates, you are going to have different filesizes for different movies. I usually leave anydvd running in the background. I use dvdshrink to remove audio tracks that I do not want.

I use vobblanker to strip out the "If you are breathing, you are stealing" crap, then burn with Nero Express.

I have yet to have failures.

The quality is going to change as you remove extraneous stuff. The overall filesize will decrease too.

As I said earlier, you are putting way too much thought into this.

The quality is subjective. What may look good to you, may look like garbage to someone else.

Play with it, and go with what works for you.

[bbanderic]

bbanderic,
You recommend that I rip my DVD's in FULL DISC mode first w/Fab HD Decrypter, then run the files through DVD Shrink to strip out the main movie. You also mentioned ImgBurn so should I turn off the option to use Nero with DVDShrink and "manually" burn w/ImgBurn? Also, what do you think about buring/backing up the entire movie at around 60% or so compressed? I think I had another question but forgot it... too much thinking! Thanks again.

DVD Shrink should give you the option to "burn with ImgBurn", if you have ImgBurn installed or you can just "manually" use ImgBurn. Just so you know...ImgBurn is the best DVD burning app out there, period. I highly recommend it, check the forums here you'll find that the overwhelming majority think so as well.

If you're going to back up the movie+extras compressed at 60% quality or so, you can, but I recommend that you use the "deep analysis" option in DVD Shrink for best results. Do you really need the extra's? If you strip them out you'll be able to burn the main movie at anywhere from 90-100% quality for a 2 hr. movie. Also, I personally don't think DVDFab or Clone DVD gives better results than DVD Shrink, I've tried them all.

[RowMan]

In DVD Shrink, be sure you have the highest quality settings checked under the Back-up DVD tab.

These settings are...

"Perform deep analysis before back-up to improve quality"

and

"Compress video with high-quality adaptive error compensation"

At these settings the back-up will take a little longer, but the back-up will look better.

I don't think the program defaults to these settings at first use.

EDIT: bbanderic, ya beat me to it!

[guns1inger]

@bbanderic : The standard version of DVD Shrink doesn't recognize Imgburn, only DVD Decrypter. There is a modified version of DVD Shrink specifically to solve this issue.

[bbanderic]

@bbanderic : The standard version of DVD Shrink doesn't recognize Imgburn, only DVD Decrypter. There is a modified version of DVD Shrink specifically to solve this issue.

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I usually just manually open up ImgBurn and burn that way so I don't notice.

[guns1inger]

Same here - never burn before testing

[PCat]

Thanks to all for the info!! I had prblms getting DVDShrink3.2 to work on my very first bkup attempt so I stumbled upon DVDFab. I've been copying just the main movie (w/the english audios and no subtitles) to my HDD using Fab5 HD Decrypter and then started investigating apps to use to burn those main movies to DVD. I asked someone at work what app they use and was told AnyDVD w/CloneDVD which is how I got looking into that, and comparing. I'm still copying main movies to HDD w/Fab5 but going to have to burn them soon, running out of HDD. All my main movies have been easily 100% uncompressed until now; just ran into a movie that I could only copy ac3/2 stereo audio track and not 5.1 surround (my preference) so I could avoid compressing. Always something. One last thing, I do not see an option to use ImgBurn w/my Shrink3.2, just Nero. Someone on another forum gave me a download that was suppose to have the ImgBurn option, and it did but just for ISO burns.

[bbanderic]

Thanks for the replies! I believe I am putting way too much into this; I just don't want to waste time and money making "poor" or useless backups (and won't know until I grab one to watch).

Some testing and trial/error is required, there's no way around it. I would settle on the tools you want to use for the task and then process/burn a few DVD's and watch them ALL THE WAY THROUGH to be sure the results are satisfactory before you go and backup your whole library. If you don't, you may very well end up with poor/useless backups.

[bbanderic]

Thanks to all for the info!! I had prblms getting DVDShrink3.2 to work on my very first bkup attempt so I stumbled upon DVDFab.

Did you try to remove the copy protection with DVD Shrink? If so, that's why you may have had a problem with it. DVD Shrink is an old application and chokes on many of the new movies.
If you rip the movie with DVDFab or AnyDVD first and then use DVD Shrink, you should have no troubles with it. DVD Shrink is only meant to be used to strip the main movie or unwanted material and for compression after the copy protection has already been removed.

[redwudz]

Someone on another forum gave me a download that was suppose to have the ImgBurn option, and it did but just for ISO burns.

Not a big deal, but that version of DVD Shrink/ImgBurn should just convert to ISO to burn and the disk will end up with the proper VIDEO_TS folder and a AUDIO_TS folder. It's fairly automatic with ImgBurn when it's selected as the burning program.

I have ANYDVD HD for my Blu-ray rips, but it also decrypts DVDs with no problems. In the past I used the freeware DVDFab HD Decrypter with DVD Shrink/ImgBurn and disabled all subs, alternate languages, extras. I also used analysis on the discs. Quite a few DVDs don't need any compression this way. If they did need compression, I tried to keep it at about minimum of 80%. At 60% the quality seemed to drop off quickly.

If you want no compression most of the time, a alternative is to use Verbatim DL + discs. This is also a good alternative on very long movies that run close to three hours.

[PCat]

Thanks again for the replies! I think I'm coming to the conclusion that freeware (along with quick, simple, quality) may be the "best" way to go:
Copy entire movie w/DVDFab5 HD Decrypter to HDD, then DVDShrink if necessary (most likely only what's needed/main movie and english audio), then ImgBurn to DVD
Or copy w/DVDFab HD Decrypter only what's needed/main movie and english audio (when no compression is needed) to HDD then ImgBurn to DVD
Sound good, right?

And, yes, I was attempting to use Shrink3.2 (that I've toyed with in the past) as my main app and remove copy protection and figured since it failed it was out-of-date. Isn't there a new, paid version Shrink 2009?

A few posts mentioned something about "never burn before testing", another step in between copying to HDD and shrinking and/or burning? What is recommened here. I heard deep analysis w/Shrink but if I only use Fab for an uncompressed movie is there something in that app to "test before"? I don't like wasting the time "verifying"; my burns have been fine.

And what about booktype settings I'm now reading about?

The reason I'm am getting so invloved in this, like I said I don't want to wast time, money etc... on backing up lousy copies. And this is b/c about 5 years ago or so when I began looking into this I knew someone who was doing this with all kinds of apps, real, hacked, keygend, whatever, and saw some crazy stuff from him, skipping, out-of-sync audio, poor quality, you name it. SO I'm doing my research and appreciate your time and helpful replies!

[victoriabears]

Subscribe to any dvd, do not use clone dvd, use IMGBURN (free) .

Then if shrink needed use dvd shrink open disc image option using the iso that IMGBURN has created.

Have never failed me and dare not tell you how many discs.

Clone DVD has not produced regular good stuff for me in the past.

DVD FAB is good for poor discs.

[redwudz]

The only 'testing' I have ever done is to play back the ISO or VIDEO_TS folder from the hard drive before burning to verify I have the right audio track. I don't bother with verifying the burned disc. But that's a personal choice.

The last version of Shrink is 3.2. There is no later version except some fake versions. There will be no further development because of legal reasons, AFAIK. Besides, it works fine as is. Just needs help on decrypting newer discs. But DVDFab HD Decrypter does that for free, so it seems to work just as well as any paid decrypter.

Booktyping can be used with DVD + discs for compatibility with older DVD players. Unless you have older players, not much use, IMO. It 'fools' the drive into thinking the burned disc is a pressed DVD ROM type of disc.

DVDFab>DVD Shrink>ImgBurn is all freeware and still works very well. (If you also use a decent quality of DVD media. )

[PCat]

redwudz,
That info helps a lot. I have to ask, how do you know you have the right audio track when playing back your hdd copy (other than it obviously not sounding German, etc...). The reason I ask is last night I ran into a movie that to get the main movie and audio to 100% non-compressed I checked all audio off except for ac3/2 (there was a 5.1 option); it played and sounded fine but I know it will never play in surround sound (which I'll forget about).
I also ran into a movie that I kept only the 1 audio english option (made that selection easy, haha) and the main movie and still it had to be compressed 26% (DVDFab said the quality was 74%).

[Relayerman]

One thing to check if using AnyDVD and CloneDVD are the default preferences. I use both, but am at work right now and don't remember what is where. In one of them are options to automatically strip out certain things or not. Those types of defaults will make the final DVD sizes not necessarily match DVDFab.

Personally I have not had a problem with either AnyDVD or CloneDVD. I use them both regularly with no issues. I would at least highly recommend AnyDVD as it sits there in the background and decrypts and is constantly being updated by the authors for new protections.

[redwudz]

I only pick the AC3 5.1 version as any player I have used will convert that to stereo if that's the only output available. The English stereo track on a DVD could rarely be a 'Directors Commentary', though they are usually marked as such. If in doubt, play before burning.

Compression depends mostly on the movie playing time. A three hour movie will require quite a bit of compression to fit. Another factor is the 'Compressibility'. Some movies don't 'Shrink' well. Your options then for highest quality are dual layer discs or use a alternate program like DVD Rebuilder that re-encodes instead of 'transcodes' as Shrink does. But that will take much longer.

It's been debated here many times on 'How much compression is too much?' I always try to keep it above 80% myself, depending if I want good quality. If it were down below 50%, I would use a DL disc or Rebuilder if I wanted the best quality. Again, IMO.

[victoriabears]

Yes--good point-------older movies that have been released on dvd sometimes are way too big and can cope with compression, but certainly a minimum of 70% is my guidline, I mean, with DL discs on sale at $1 do we really need to be that cheap !

[stiltman]

DVDFab>DVD Shrink>ImgBurn is all freeware and still works very well. (If you also use a decent quality of DVD media. )

I'll add my 2cents

DVDFab>FixVTS>DVD Shrink>ImgBurn

[PCat]

Hope everyone is having a fantastic Friday!

I'm not failiar with FixVTS (yet, like I need more apps to learn ) and first I've heard of it in my mix. Is it really needed when I just copy the main movie & english audio uncompressed to hdd and then burn to DVD w/ImgBurn? Opinions?

Also, what are the thoughts on DVDFab5 Platinum version VSO burning engine and shrink capabilities (all in one) compared to DVDShrink and ImgBurn (other than it costing $)?

Lastly, what are your recommendations for storing my new, backed up DVD movies - jewel case, slim DVD case, wallets, folders; clear, black, acidfree and all the other buzz words?

[bbanderic]

Hope everyone is having a fantastic Friday!

I'm not failiar with FixVTS (yet, like I need more apps to learn ) and first I've heard of it in my mix. Is it really needed when I just copy the main movie & english audio uncompressed to hdd and then burn to DVD w/ImgBurn? Opinions?

Also, what are the thoughts on DVDFab5 Platinum version VSO burning engine and shrink capabilities (all in one) compared to DVDShrink and ImgBurn (other than it costing $)?

Lastly, what are your recommendations for storing my new, backed up DVD movies - jewel case, slim DVD case, wallets, folders; clear, black, acidfree and all the other buzz words?

1) Personally, I don't think FixVTS is needed, most of the time. However, it's most definitely a worthwhile tool to have in the toolbox when it is.

2) IMO, the VSO burning engine is inferior to ImgBurn. ImgBurn is the best, hands down, you won't get much debate, if any, on that fact.

3) As stated earlier, DVD Shrink, will work every bit as good as DVDFab for compression/stripping material.

I would say don't get hung up on the "all in one" appeal of DVDFab5 Platinum. The processing time for the "all in one" program isn't much, if at all, faster than the DVDFab HD Decrypter/DVD Shrink/ImgBurn option. Opening three seperate apps really isn't a big deal.

[PCat]

So it looks like my "best" solution/conclusion is:
DVDFab5 HD Decrypter main movie only uncompressed (if possible) to hdd & burn to DVD w/ImgBurn
or
DVDFab5 HD Decrypter full movie (if entire movie is wanted or main movie only is too big) to hdd, use DVDShrink to compress, then burn to DVD w/ImgBurn. Use FixVTS if DVDShrink has problems compressing.
In both options I am creating/copying video files (*.VOB, *.IFO and *.BUP files in VIDEO_TS) not ISO (some thing else I need to learn more about some day)?

I'm using Maxell DVD's from Taiwan, should I switch to Verbatims as others suggest using?

Lastly, recommendations for storing my new, backed up DVD movies - jewel case, slim DVD case, wallets, folders; clear, black, acidfree and all the other buzz words?

[orsetto]

I have both feet firmly planted in the CloneDVD/AnyDVD camp. There are those who say a combination of other tools can do the same, and I agree, where we diverge is in my preference for CloneDVD/AnyDVDs easier quicker setup for commonly desired tasks like stripping out the commercials, trailers, bonus crap and other things: you do so in the main window, and CloneDVD preserves the menu of the original disc, so the backup works exactly like the original (less any content you deleted). Also it is very simple to split one DVD9 across two DVD5s: you can back the main movie up to one DVD, and the bonus content to the second. Alternately if you have an extremely long main movie you can split it in the middle and CloneDVD will create two 1:1 uncompressed DVD5s. Admittedly one would not bother doing that for portable use, you'll never notice compression on a 9" screen, but I do use these options frequently for other purposes. The only dealkiller with CloneDVD/AnyDVD is the pricing, which has gotten way out of hand now that they insist on bundling BluRay backup capabilities (BD backup should remain a separate product awhile longer).

I have never experienced a problem with the SlySoft products that was not addressed almost immediately (new protection decryptions are available every couple weeks). The one time I was stumped, by an inability to back up my own unprotected DVDs made on a JVC recorder, SlySoft responded to my email within 24 hours, advising me to disable a new preference setting on the new version of CloneDVD when backing up JVC-made discs. Easy.