MiniDV, HDV and different resolutions - utter confusion!

[The Big Cheese]

Hi guys

I hope you can clear this up for me as I can't get a straight answer no matter who I talk to...

HDV tapes - how do I transfer them to a PC?
I thought "easy - HD camcorder such as the Canon HV30".

But...the HV30 seems to take MiniDV tapes...so what is the difference with HDV tapes and would they still record and output to a PC successfully through an HV30?


Assuming they do work will I be able to copy all HDV tapes from any make of camcorder?

For example the Sony camcorder that is out now only does a max resolution of 1440x1080, so will the Canon which records at 1920x1080 display and output that resolution successfully?

Also is capturing onto an HDV tape the same 'format' for all makes? For example with HDD camcorders they all use different codecs as far as I am aware...I wouldn't imagine it would be the same with tape based but I'm not 100%.


Many thanks for any replies, Google usually answers everything for me but I'm coming up short this time!

[JohnnyMalaria]

Hi guys

I hope you can clear this up for me as I can't get a straight answer no matter who I talk to...

HDV tapes - how do I transfer them to a PC?
I thought "easy - HD camcorder such as the Canon HV30".

But...the HV30 seems to take MiniDV tapes...so what is the difference with HDV tapes and would they still record and output to a PC successfully through an HV30?

HDV cassettes are identical to DV physically but the information recorded is different. The PC uses a different set of drivers to talk to an HDV camcorder and you need to use software that can use those drivers. If you search the forum, you'll find a post I made giving instructions on how to do it using a program called VLC. Note, an HDV camcorder can work in DV mode, too - i.e., as if it were a DV camcorder. In which case the traditional DV capture software will work.

Assuming they do work will I be able to copy all HDV tapes from any make of camcorder?

For example the Sony camcorder that is out now only does a max resolution of 1440x1080, so will the Canon which records at 1920x1080 display and output that resolution successfully?

The most common form of HDV is 1440x1080 (it is displayed as if it were 1920x1080 by stretching it). All HDV tapes should be interchangeable between devices unless you have an unusual format such as some Panasonics and Canons have. Basically, if it isn't 1440x1080i (native), don't rely on it working with a different make/model.

Also is capturing onto an HDV tape the same 'format' for all makes? For example with HDD camcorders they all use different codecs as far as I am aware...I wouldn't imagine it would be the same with tape based but I'm not 100%.

HDV is a very specific form of MPEG2. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV

[edDV]

Both DV and HDV camcorders transfer data from the tape to the computer over an IEEE-1394 (aka Firewire) cable connection. The data on tape is replicated to a computer hard disk file.

DV format is saved in an avi wrapper for Windows (DV-AVI file). WinDV is a common transfer program for DV.

HDV format is saved to an MPeg2 M2t file. HDVSplit is a common HDV transfer program.

Most HDV camcorders also can shoot DV format or can convert HDV to DV format in the camera. This allows these cameras to be used with older DV only software.

As JohnnyMalaria said, the HDV interlace format is strictly defined as 25Mb/s 1440x1080i and should be playable in any HDV camcorder. For business reasons, PAL HDV camcorders won't play NTSC frame rates and visa versa.

HDV also specifies a 1280x720p @50fps format but that is currently limited to higher end prosumer models. Those tapes will not play in consumer HDV camcorders.

All HDV camcorders currently use MiniDV tape. Sony and other companies (Focus) make external HDD accessories for HDV camcorders that connect via IEEE-1394. Sony makes a pro line that uses a similar MPeg2 recording format called XDCAM-EX. The XDCAM format is targeted at flash ram and Blu-Ray optical storage but also works with HDD.

There is one other pro format that uses MiniDV tape called DVCPro/DVCProHD. These camcorders will play DV format tapes but DV/HDV camcorders cannot play DVCPro tapes.

There is a separate MPeg4 h.264 flash ram based consumer format called AVCHD which also works for HDD. There are no dual format HDV+AVCHD camcorders.

I hope that answered your questions. Ask more.


PS: Some HDV camcorder manufacturers add proprietary recording modes that are outside the HDV spec such as 24f and 30f progressive modes in the Canon line. These are converted to normal interlace HDV format for recording and transfer but can be converted back to 24p or 30p after transfer to the computer.

[The Big Cheese]

Wow!!!

Thanks very much for those incredibly detailed replies, I think that covers everything for me!

So there is no uniform standard, and no way of guaranteeing that each brand will work with the others.

Would there be a device that you can put the tapes into that would read all types of HDV tape, rather than a camcorder which is tied to a specific brand / format?
(I'm not holding out hope of there being one, but you never know!)


Many thanks

[edDV]

Wow!!!

Thanks very much for those incredibly detailed replies, I think that covers everything for me!

So there is no uniform standard, and no way of guaranteeing that each brand will work with the others.

Would there be a device that you can put the tapes into that would read all types of HDV tape, rather than a camcorder which is tied to a specific brand / format?
(I'm not holding out hope of there being one, but you never know!)


Many thanks

Yes there are pro decks but why do you need to play 720p HDV tapes? 1080i tapes are universally playable.

Universal DV/DVCAM/HDV deck JVC BR-HD50U Price ~ $2800
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101540
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/tech_desc.jsp?tree=&model_id=MDL101540&itempath=&feature_id=02




The added advantage of this recorder/player is it will record or play NTSC or PAL frame rates. It also works with large DV and MiniDV tape cassettes.

" HDV international compatibility
Switch between HDV 60 Hz or 50 Hz base as required, allowing recording and playback of 720/25p and 576/50p in addition to 720/24p/30p/60p and 480/60p. This makes it easy to work with internationally sourced material and transfer it to a non-linear system for editing and then archiving to tape. You can also record to Standard DV or Mini DV tape in either HDV 60 Hz or 50 Hz base format.
*Cannot be used as an HDV 60 Hz/50 Hz converter. The BR-HD50U can record and play back signals in both HDV 60 Hz and 50 Hz formats. "